Dismissed due to sickness - is it worth appealing

[sirbob10]

I looking for a bit of advice. My husband has been unwell for the last 18 months and last year had spinal surgery to correct the problem. Since he had the surgery he has suffered blackouts.

 

He went back to work in June but is still suffering. Work has paid for him to have a medical and while the report says he has problems, the company should try and make allowances while the cause is found out. The report also says his problems are covered by the Disability Act.

 

What I'm wanting to know is can they sack him. He has a stage 3 meeting next week to discuss his level of absence and the letter does say that as part of company policy he could be dismissed. We are both worried as if he is dismissed we are not entitled to ESA contribution based and I earn just over the limit for income based.

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

Joanne

[becky2585]

Capability issues due to ill health is a potentially fair reason for dismissal, yes.

 

What did the medical report say about your husbands prognosis?

[sirbob10]

it says in time he will improve. He has a MRI next month and if it supports the x-rays he had done he will need more spinal surgery. He works in customer services so he says he is more than able to do his job but at times when he blacks out which has never actually happened at work yet it makes him unwell for a few days afterwards.

[sirbob10]

Hi

 

I'm not sure what to do now so any advice would be great.

 

My husband has worked for the same company for over 2 years. 13 months into his employment he went onto sick as he lost use of his right arm and was in a lot of pain. He spent a lot of time back and forward to hospital and finally in October last year he has spinal surgery.

 

Not long after the surgery he began having blackouts, anything from a few seconds to 5 mins max. As he's just had surgery we assumed this was the course but even after he recovered from the surgery the blackouts continued.

 

Forward to May 2012 and although still having blackouts he wanted to return to work. He met with his team leader and my husband explained that he was still under investigation for the blackouts but as he got a 1-2 minute warning when it was going to happen he was able to sit down and prepare for it.

 

His team leader said not to worry and that the company would do all reasonable to help him with his return to work so in June he returned.

 

He was staggered in over 1 month but he wasn't allowed to go on the phones as he needed to attend a course 1st to help him get back into the swing of things. He spent 3 weeks sitting with someone before getting on a course and then he was thrown back into his normal 12 hour shift on the phones.

 

In the meantime the company sent him for a medical which stated that although hubby had problems he was fit for work and that the company should make some allowances while he was recovering and while he was still seeing a consultant for the blackouts. It also stated that his problems were covered under the Disability Act. It also suggested my hubby reduce his hours to limit the problems which my hubby emailed his team leader.

 

My husband also had to make his own arrangements with a Back to Work group and they spent 2 hours telling him what he would need to make things a bit easier for him. This included a high backed chair and a panic button in the toilets in case he fell ill. A copy was sent to his employer.

 

Since he returned to work my husband has had 3 further periods of absence due to the above reasons and last week he was dismissed.

 

He is so upset as all he wanted was some support from work. Even his union supporter said he was shocked at the decision and my husband should appeal.

 

He feels the company offered him no support, didn't get any of the equipment that was suggested to make things easier, no 1-2-1 with his team leader and ignored his request to reduce his hours.

 

His team leader even wrote back to the person who completed his medical to stir things up by saying my hubby had blacked out at work which he never has.

 

Sorry for the long post but what do people think he should do?

 

Thank you

[Emmzzi]

Would the chair have stopped him needing to be absent? Seems unlikely.

 

Bottom line, he's had several months off work, phased return has not enabled him to be present, and he is still unable to attend regularly. For what, over 11 months? (Emplyed fpr 2 years, problems after 13 months?)

 

Even if he is disabled per Equality Act I'd say getting on for a year is pushing any employer's limits. Much better to focus on getting properly better with the condition under control and start with a clean slate elsewhere.

[sirbob10]

But should his employer have helped make reasonable adjustments to aid his return to work? Even a reduction in his hours would have helped a lot but was just ignored. Working 12 hour shifts is rather tiring even for a fit person. He completed his 1 month phasing in but it wasn't doing his normal job just sitting listening on phone and then 7 day course then back to over 10 hours on the phone.

 

I wish he could focus on getting better but with 3 young children and not entitled to any sick benefits this is just going to make him worse and back to suicide attemps that we endured last time.

[Emmzzi]

I can tell you nice things, or I can tell you how the employer will see it.

 

He had a fit note that said phased return - they phased his return with sitting inlistening, and a course for what, a month or so? And he then did not come back with another fit note resticting his duties from his doctor - so on paper his primary physician sayshe's fine to go back to normal.

 

A button for the loos won't stop him blacking out in the first place, it'll just help when he does. There was a "suggestion" of reducing hours but nothing saying it was essential. Ergonomic chairs can genuinely take weeks to arrive from the supplier.

 

You may have a case, but your case is weak, because there still isn't a date when he will be able to resume duties on a regular, reliable basis - you are unlikely to get that while he is still being diagnosed, and you are unlikely to get a rapid diagnosis.

 

As the employer, I would feel I had no choice but to let him go, because I have a job that needs done. If you feel it will help him mentally to go through the appeal, to know he has exhausted all avenues, go for it, and I will give my best advice on what to say, as will others. Is it "worth it" in the sense of getting him his job back? Probably not. Thus I'd get well, get my diagnosis, kick off with some temping and ease back in.

 

Why isn't he entitled to SSP/ESA?

 

And, is he also being treated for depression?

 

And does the job centre have a disabiled people back to work advisor? They probably do but won't say unless you ask.

[sirbob10]

He isn't entitled to SSP as he has only been back to work since June and no ESA as he had his entitlement when he was last off work as its only paid for 365 days and as I work we can't claim income based ESA.

 

I know whats going to happen and I know that one day when I get home from work he'd have killed himself.

[Emmzzi]

I would worry more about treatment for depression than appeals, honestly.

[sirbob10]

treatment for depression doesn't feed kids or pay bills and as horrible as this may sound our kids would be so much financially better off with neither of us here.

[Emmzzi]

Ok. Look, I advice on employment situations and am not a medical advisor. If you are feeling desperate, please call the samaritans. Here is also a link to Mind which has some suggestions for help.

 

http://www.mind.org.uk/

 

Financially better off is only a tiny part of the story as you know. I am certain they would have a better life with you in it.

 

I am going to flag this threads to the mods as I am in no way expert in the non-legal problems you face. I feel for you, but would hate to say something in the health arena which ended up making it worse.

[sirbob10]

I thank you for your help and your advise and didn't mean to burden you with any other issues apart from what I asked which you have kindly answered. No need to flag for more advise cause to much just makes things more confusing. My husband and I are both happy in the decision we have made.

[goboy]

Go back to GP and tell s/he what is happening at work and they will provide a fit not saying that reduced hours and change of duties is required. Also he should submit a grievance regarding no adjustments being made for him. How large is the company and do they have an OHA that he be referred to.

 

Best of Luck.

[sirbob10]

Thank you for your advise goboy but we have decided not to appeal and to concentrate on sorting things out for our girls which we consider more important.

[citizenB]

Have you spoken to anyone at Citizens Advice Bureaux, if your Husband is not entitled to Sick pay, there might be other benefits that you are entitled to.

[Emmzzi]

DLA scoring guide. Involuntary unconsciousness = points = benefits. I *think* lower rate kicks in at 15 points. Could be wrong - also think there is a benefits board here.

 

http://dwpexamination.wordpress.com/dwp-score-sheets-or-points-make-benefits/

[Conniff]

You should both go and see your GP and ask if he considered Medical Retirement appropriate.

[sirbob10]

Hi

 

My husband was dismissed on the 26th September due to ill health.

 

He was told he would receive 1 month in lieu and any accrued holidays which would be paid today which is normal pay day.

 

He called last week to make sure he was going to get paid but was told nothing had been put through but 17 hours holiday he had left and no month in lieu.

 

My husband has told them he is due a lot more hours as from March 2011 to June 2012 he was off sick and he was advised when he returned to work he had accrued 297 hours up until March 2012 and from April 2012 until the date he was dismissed he accrued 143 hours of which he had taken 126 hours leaving the 17 hours he was due today but the 297 hours have just gone missing in the system but they do agree he was off sick, he had accrued the holiday and he hasn't taken any of the 297 hours.

 

My husband is doing all the chasing. They promise to call and they don't. He was told that due to a manager not filling in his leavers form correctly he will have to now wait until 1st November for his month in lieu but they have not said anything about the missing accrued hours.

 

What I need to know is how do we proceed? How long do we give them to sort it out?

 

Many Thanks

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

I can understand your frustration and hope the guys will be along later with some views for you.

 

Do any of your previous threads relate to this please? If it would help the guys trying to advise you, I can do a merge.

 

My best, HB

[sirbob10]

Hi

 

I have posted previous threads but nothing in relation to the problem at the moment. He has an appeal hearing at work next week but by what we've been told by people on here I don't hold much hope of him getting his job back.

 

Joanne

[Emmzzi]

there seems to be a lot of phoning going on here. Where are the requests in writing, with a copy kept, sent signed for so you have proof of delivery?

[BankFodder]

Yes, start doing everything in writing. You need a complete paper trail or better still record the calls.

 

I would try to spend a week getting evidence - preferably in recorded calls as to their promises and committments to you.

 

Then I would write to them and confirm the promises which they made on the phone and tell them that time is running short and that you are prepared to take action if nothing is forthcoming.

 

Then I'd send them an LBA. Don't do this if you are not up for it.

 

It is not worth making empty threats.

 

You must not let them drag you into some protracted exchange. They must be made to realise that you are going to be very business-like and that you will not stand any nonsense. You must set timescales and deadlines and stick to them. You must set the pace. Do not allow them to take control of when things happen.

[sirbob10]

Hi

 

Just looking for some advise.

 

Hubby lost his job Sept 26th 2012. He was told he would receive 1 month in lieu which would be paid on 25th October which is normal payday and then P45 would be issued.

 

He rang up 19th October to check he would be getting paid to which he was advised NO. He queried the month in lieu but was told he wouldn't be getting it and this was also confirmed by HR. He called HR and told them he had it in writing and it was in the minutes of the dismissal meeting notes sent to him.

 

They said they would have to confirm with the manager who dismissed him. It took a few days but he was told he would get the money but it would be to late to receive by the 25th October and it would be paid 1 week later. This was due to the manager not filling out the leavers form correctly. He received a call to aologise but not from the person who made the error but from a Team Leader which I think is poor as I would have thought as a manager it would be polite to admit you made a mistake and apologise.

 

He has received the money today but it was less than 1 months salary. He has called to query and has been told that as his P45 was produced on the 22nd October after the 1st payroll run he was taxed using an emergency tax code and its now up to us to claim a refund from the tax office.

 

This was all down to the fact that the manager made a mistake.

 

Is it worth making a complaint. She is also dealing with a missing 370 hours of holiday that my husband had accrued before being dismissed.

 

He doesn't really want to stir things up as he had his appeal meeting for dismissal today and doesn't want anything getting in the way but feels this manager just passes the buck and can't/won't apologise for her mistakes herself.

[becky2585]

Hello

 

How long had he worked for the company and for what reason did he lose his job?

[sirbob10]

he had been employed by them since Feb 2010 but had been off sick since March 2011 until June 2012 when he returned. He was dismissed due to his sick record as when he returned back to work he wasn't fully fit but had promises from his manager that they would help and support him. His manager who made the promises was dismissed a few months prior to my husband so no evidence of promises.