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Hi All,

 

I thought I'd share my OH story to see if any advice could be given.

 

My OH went to our local mini supermarket and took her bag for life with her. She browsed the isles putting items into her bag as she has done for a long time. The store manager approached her and said she could not put items in her bag and thrusted a metal basket towards her. My OH explained that due to her medical condition ( she has had spinal surgery and has a bad leg ) she found the basket awkward and there were no trolleys available. The manager pointed at the only trolley for the store and said that she should use that one , However is was full to the brim with stock and when this was pointed out to the manager he shrugged his shoulders and thrusted the basket at her again.

 

My OH didn't take the basket but apologised and went straight to the checkout to pay for her items. While she was being served she spoke to the sales assistant and said that she had better check her bag as the manager was being arsey. She laughed , said don't worry about it as everyone does it. My OH paid and left the supermarket , As she rounded the corner of the building the store security guard had come out the back door and muttered something under his breath wilst clearly looking at my OH and she got the impression this was due to the shopping bag incident so she said to the guard "Get a Life" , with this the guard immediately shouted "I gonna f****** punch you in the face" , my OH was gobsmacked and said you can't say that to which his reply was "I can say what the f*** I want" , my OH replied "I think you'll find you can't" , the guard said "You said get a life" to which my OH replied "Yeah" , this conversation happened while they were walking away fom each other and by the time my other half had said "Yeah" she turned and walked home.

 

By the time my OH got home she felt that she had done nothing to warrant the aggresive responce from the guard so she went back to the shop to complain. She spoke to the same sales assistant and told her what the guard had said , the assistant pointed towards the manager and said tell him. At this point my OH changed her mind due to the managers initial lack of sympthay and decided to leave the store and went home.

 

After a cup of tea and a calm down she decided to go back to the store to get an item she had forgotten and find out the security guards name so she could write a letter of complaint.

 

She took a camera with her as she felt this would give her security.

 

As she approached the sliding doors of the store , she saw the guard and he saw her and starting shouting "Your Banned , Your Banned". My OH walked into shop and was putting the camera into her bag and asked "Banned For What?" , With the this the guard rushed at my OH and gave her a double handed shove in the chest , she reeled backwards and luckily didn't fall over , she said to the guard what did you do that for and he looked like he was going to come at her again , so she starting shouting "No , don't touch me , get away from me" and clung onto the shop railings so she wasn't pushed over. The guard was still shouting "Your Banned" and my OH was shouting "Call The Police". The manager came rushing over with the sales assistant and he said "Your banned" , my OH asked what for and he said "Lying" , my OH asked what he meant and he said that she had lied about the threats from the security guard, she protested her inncocence and pointed out that she had just been assaulted by him and wanted the police called , the manager flattely refused. My OH asked for the guards name and was flattely refused. She took her camera out of her bag and insisted on a photo of the guard and it looked like a scuffle would insue so she put her camera bag in her bag and appealed to the sales assistant but she said nothing. My OH left the store and went home.

 

The police were phoned who arrived and took a statement , went to the store to view the CCTV but unfortunately the footage is time lapse and doesn't show the actual assault so the police couldn't do anything although the WPC said she gave him a stern warning.

 

The stores Customers Services are investigating the incident and she appears to be given the runaround , she has been told that the guard won't work in that store again but the manager is still there and she is still banned which unfortunately is the closest shop to our house.

 

She has been told by several people to make a claim ? against the store but she doesn't feel it will get her anywhere. She has also been put off supermarkets in case she sees the security guard again.

 

Has anyone got any useful advice for her with regards to the security guard as she believes he's not up to the job and should not be working in security.

 

Regards DB

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If there's no evidence of an assault, you are unlikely to be able to sue them in County Court, especially as the police concluded insufficient evidence to take any action.

 

The store can ban anybody without any reason whatsoever, as it is private property, so not much you can do about that.

 

As she approached the sliding doors of the store , she saw the guard and he saw her and starting shouting "Your Banned , Your Banned". My OH walked into shop

 

They do have the right to use "reasonable force" in protecting their property. After being advised she was banned, she attempted to enter the premises, which made her a trespasser. Therefore, it is possible that "pushing" someone away is probably reasonable, if a court was to consider the case, especially if she was a little irate.

 

The fact that she returned to the supermarket after already having an altercation earlier could potentially suggest she went back looking for trouble...? Maybe that wasn't her intention, but a court could consider that if she hadn't of went back, the entire situation wouldn't have happened.

 

This is IMO a purely technical view of the matter. Poor customer service possibly, but I have doubts whether an assault occurred.

Edited by firstclassx
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Your OH has, without a doubt, been treated unfairly. You both have my sympathy.

 

But - her return to the store might be the turning point on any claim. There was perhaps a moral argument that she was justified, but I think the man in the street would expect her to take her business elsewhere while composing a strongly worded complaint to the store company about both the manager and guard's behaviour.

 

As it is she is even going to find it difficult to get a complaint to stick as she entered the premises after she was advised that she was banned.

 

I am sorry but I would probably just mark this one up to life and find another store. Give it 6 months - a manager with such poor skills will be working for the DHS by then and she will be able to go back without any hassle.

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@firstclassx Thanks for the reply and your view on the matter

 

I just asked my OH if she did enter the shop and she said she did have 1 foot in the shop so the sliding doors were open so she could talk to the guard as the doors would stay closed otherwise.

 

@ScarletPimpernel Thanks for the reply

 

Your right , it's not what I wanted to hear but you probably right and would be easy to do if my OH knew that the guard would not be working in any shop she goes in.

 

@Bandit127 Thanks for the reply

 

The area manager has already told us he has already compiled witness statements and burned off a copy of the CCTV to give to the police , I don't know why but I neglected to mention in my last call to the area manager that the police are doing nothing as there is no evidence.

We are expecting ( it's been a couple of days ) a call from the area manager to arrange a meeting between us and his Boss.

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I suppose you could try and milk some vouchers from them, but the best you might have is an apology.

 

You could say that you are considering legal action and see if it prompts them to offer you something.

 

Your OH isn't entirely blameless here, which is the problem unfortunately.

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This does raise the question of who is entitled to ban a person from entering a shop and how the customer should be notified that they are banned.

 

Would a reasonable person conclude that they had been properly banned by a security person raving "you're banned you're banned"? They might presume that they would require a letter or document first.

 

Whilst reasonable force might be allowed to remove a trespasser (and maybe any other person at random), who is responsible for making that decision?

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This does raise the question of who is entitled to ban a person from entering a shop and how the customer should be notified that they are banned.

 

Would a reasonable person conclude that they had been properly banned by a security person raving "you're banned you're banned"? They might presume that they would require a letter or document first.

 

Whilst reasonable force might be allowed to remove a trespasser (and maybe any other person at random), who is responsible for making that decision?

 

Verbally is fine, without prior notice, otherwise it would be a ridiculous situation whereby I could enter your house (without causing damage to get in) and just sit on your sofa (not causing any damage or stealing anything), until you present me with a written confirmation that I am banned. There is no requirement to issue a written notice banning them. You would tell them to get out and probably physically drag them out.

 

In the Law Commission's Report No. 218 Offences Against the Person and General Principles (1993)[5] at pp 106–110) these defences are set out (so far as they relate to defence of property) as follows:

 

27(i) The use of force by a person for any of the following purposes, if only such as is reasonable in the circumstances as he believes them to be, does not constitute an offense:

 

© to protect his property... from trespass;

(d) to protect property belonging to another from . . . damage caused by a criminal act or (with the authority of the other) from trespass...

29(i) For the purposes of s 27...

(a) a person uses force in relation to... property not only where he applies force to, but also where he causes an impact on,... that property;"

 

Therefore, IMO, if the store manager authorises the security guard to prevent trespassers from entering his property, no offence occurs if a security guard subsequently uses reasonable force to prevent a trespasser.

Edited by firstclassx
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Therefore, IMO, if the store manager authorises the security guard to prevent trespassers from entering his property, no offence occurs if a security guard subsequently uses reasonable force to prevent a trespasser.

 

The worlds a messed up place if a security guards tells a woman ( 5'5" who weighs 7 stone ) their banned and when she asks why , they are allowed to do a double handed shove in the chest without any other warning. Could anyone tell me what physical violence I am legally allowed to do this security guard.

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A security guard is not allowed to do that.

 

What you can try is have a friend go in and check if there are any cameras in that area. If so, make a full complaint and request the videos to be reviewed.

 

Just remember though, that they dont have to let you back in at all. However, if the video evidence shows what the Op has said, then the guard can be reprimanded.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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A security guard is not allowed to do that.

 

What you can try is have a friend go in and check if there are any cameras in that area. If so, make a full complaint and request the videos to be reviewed.

 

Just remember though, that they dont have to let you back in at all. However, if the video evidence shows what the Op has said, then the guard can be reprimanded.

 

It has already been discussed, and there is no CCTV evidence. The police have confirmed this and will take no action against either party.

 

A security guard can LEGALLY "secure" the premises using reasonable force, so he is allowed to do that by law. The company policy may say otherwise, but I doubt it, otherwise they would never detain anyone.

 

Whether it is an ASDA or the Bank of England, it makes no difference, a security guard can prevent access - using force if necessary.

Edited by firstclassx
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The worlds a messed up place if a security guards tells a woman ( 5'5" who weighs 7 stone ) their banned and when she asks why , they are allowed to do a double handed shove in the chest without any other warning. Could anyone tell me what physical violence I am legally allowed to do this security guard.

 

But that's missing one vital piece, where AFTER being told continually she was banned (verbally), she still attempts to enter the premises AND is only then met with resistance.

 

If she had been punched or kicked then I would say it is unreasonable. The nature of this case suggests to me that on returning to the store, (s)he was a little more than irate, and returned to make a point, which was where this situation went wrong. The security guard may also claim he was assaulted as he could have FEARED she was going to be violent towards him, (which is assault).

 

If she was getting irate at the security guard and trying to enter, it is my opinion that it is reasonable to shove someone back. The fact she didn't fall over suggests it wasn't particularly forceful anyway. Based on the above about him believing she was a threat to him, it could be argued as "self defence".

 

The police weren't prepared to take any action based on the CCTV evidence so I think both parties probably were equally to blame, but certainly the (OH) shouldn't have returned to the store in the first place.

 

Again I'm offering a purely technical view. It probably isn't good customer service, but I see no assault or cause for civil or criminal actions here. Neither do the police.

Edited by firstclassx
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There's a difference between entering my home, sitting on my sofa & just being told that "you are banned" in a shop

 

In my home, you know that you are trespassing unless I invite you in

 

With are store there is a general invitation to enter unless that has been rescinded.

 

Shouting "you are banned" might or might not fulfill that requirement. Banned from what? Buying alcohol, flirting with staff, entering the premises ...

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There's a difference between entering my home, sitting on my sofa & just being told that "you are banned" in a shop

 

In my home, you know that you are trespassing unless I invite you in

 

With are store there is a general invitation to enter unless that has been rescinded.

 

Shouting "you are banned" might or might not fulfill that requirement. Banned from what? Buying alcohol, flirting with staff, entering the premises ...

 

If someone is saying "your banned" at the entrance to a store, it is pretty obvious what is meant. I am certain a court would reach the same conclusion.

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If someone is saying "your banned" at the entrance to a store, it is pretty obvious what is meant. I am certain a court would reach the same conclusion.

 

But is it ok to shout "You're banned" and immediately assault the person?

 

I must admit that if some-one started shouting that at me, I wouldn't necessarily think that they were addressing me or understand immediately what was going on.

 

The response seems excessive to me.

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But is it ok to shout "You're banned" and immediately assault the person?

 

I must admit that if some-one started shouting that at me, I wouldn't necessarily think that they were addressing me or understand immediately what was going on.

 

The response seems excessive to me.

 

But it isn't assault! It is perfectly okay to physically prevent somebody from entering a premises which they are banned from, as long as it is not excessive force. As already posted, the fact the person didn't fall over when being shoved, suggests it was reasonable force.

 

Bouncers (security guards) prevent access to nightclubs to undesirables (potential customers) . If they ignored the bouncer, would they just be allowed to walk in regardless? There is no real difference here.

 

I also have commented that it is very likely the "customer" would have been confrontational and the security guard may himself have felt threatened or in fear of violence - in which case it was the security guard that was assaulted!

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I would have been inclined to tip all the groceries on the floor and told him he can put that lot back on the shelf and then walked out never to grace them again.

 

I did a similar thing in Tesco with £164 of groceries all entered into the till and put back into a trolly.

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Yeah, great, very mature Conniff. What a nice, well balanced, Site Team we have.

 

Mrs Hamster works in Tesco's, has done for years, middle aged, nice pleasant disposition, helpful and very knowledgeable about the store. Almost weekly she is verbally abused by the customers who think that just because they are the customer they can say and do whatever they want. They can be very nasty. Often they reduce the female members of staff to tears.

 

Whoever cleared up your trolley 'protest' was someones Wife, Husband, Son, Daughter, Mother or Father.

 

You have to ask yourself, are there any 'nice' people left.

 

H

42 years at the pointy end of the motor trade. :eek:

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Yeah, great, very mature Conniff. What a nice, well balanced, Site Team we have.

 

Mrs Hamster works in Tesco's, has done for years, middle aged, nice pleasant disposition, helpful and very knowledgeable about the store. Almost weekly she is verbally abused by the customers who think that just because they are the customer they can say and do whatever they want. They can be very nasty. Often they reduce the female members of staff to tears.

 

Whoever cleared up your trolley 'protest' was someones Wife, Husband, Son, Daughter, Mother or Father.

 

You have to ask yourself, are there any 'nice' people left.

 

H

 

So, on the basis of one post you have stereotyped all the Site Team. Still, accuracy is clearly not your strong point; the shop your wife works in is called Tesco, not Tesco's. All those years, all those big signs....

 

I am struggling to find a point to your posts in these threads, so unless you have something helpful to contribute....

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I know all about customers and their attitude, but in this case she explained she had a disability and couldn't use a wire basket but he rudely dismissed that and insisted on it's use when he should have either assigned an assistant to help her or gone and got her a trolly. As she was told to remove it from her own bag, it's not up to her to go back around the shop and put the goods she had up to this time back on the shelves.

There was no need for rudeness, it's not the customers fault if the store managers wife had a headache the night before. There seems to be no such thing as customer service in this country except by the very few. If the staff are courtious, the customer is happy. Too many staff forget they are customers themselves when they are doing business with some other shop and they wouldn't accept staff being rude to them there.

 

In my case, it was all bagged up after going through the till and put back into the trolly ready to be wheeled out to the car, but Tesco decided they would only give me 90p for each Scottish pound I was tendering for payment, so I put them back into my wallet and said 'not rudely', "right, you can put that lot back on the shelf yourselves" and we went to Asda where the notes were accepted at full face value without even a blink. I'm fed up with these companies thinking they own the world, they are there to serve and they should remember that, without customers they have nothing.

Edited by Conniff
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I know all about customers and their attitude, but in this case she explained she had a disability and couldn't use a wire basket but he rudely dismissed that and insisted on it's use when he should have either assigned an assistant to help her or gone and got her a trolly. As she was told to remove it from her own bag, it's not up to her to go back around the shop and put the goods she had up to this time back on the shelves.

There was no need for rudeness, it's not the customers fault if the store managers wife had a headache the night before. There seems to be no such thing as customer service in this country except by the very few. If the staff are courtious, the customer is happy. Too many staff forget they are customers themselves when they are doing business with some other shop and they wouldn't accept staff being rude to them there.

 

In my case, it was all bagged up after going through the till and put back into the trolly ready to be wheeled out to the car, but Tesco decided they would only give me 90p for each Scottish pound I was tendering for payment, so I put them back into my wallet and said 'not rudely', "right, you can put that lot back on the shelf yourselves" and we went to Asda where the notes were accepted at full face value without even a blink. I'm fed up with these companies thinking they own the world, they are there to serve and they should remember that, without customers they have nothing.

 

Regardless of what happened in store on the earlier visit, disability is no excuse for returning to a store with an implied purpose to kick off. Any person who goes round a supermarket putting food in a bag is going to arouse suspicion. I do find it a bit odd that a disability prevents someone from carrying a wire basket, but not a carrier bag... why not a small trolley or ask for assistance?

 

Most disabled people want equality. Just because someone is disabled does not give them a right to act in such a manner. Countless times I encounter people shouting "I have a disability, this is discrimination" in some sort of hope that people will suddenly ignore any poor behaviour.

 

If a customer doesn't like the service they receive, they always have the option of going elsewhere. If people choose to shop in places with the lowest prices, you need to consider what motivation the staff would have to offer customer service when they are getting paid minimum wage and working stupid numbers of hours. Good customer service or not, people will still go to Tesco/Asda etc because they make a compromise based on the price of the items they buy.

 

If you go to a more expensive "independent" shop, you will usually find better customer service because there is usually better pay and conditions.

Edited by firstclassx
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  • 1 month later...

The security guard is guilty of not one, but several assaults.

 

It is even doubtful if the OP was banned at all - does he have that authority? Is he a store employee or the employee of an outside contractor?

 

Unfortunately, there appears to be no corroborative evidence - which is why the police won't take it further. Either drop it, or complain (in writing, no phone calls or visits to the shop), threatening legal action. You might squeeze a voucher or two out of them. Anything further is now unlikely, given the lack of police involvement.

 

It's not right, and it's not fair, but regrettably this is unlikely to go anywhere.

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... Tesco decided they would only give me 90p for each Scottish pound I was tendering for payment ...

Is that really company policy? Might be worth a letter to get them to confirm it. If they do, pass it to a national newspaper, thus enraging Scots everywhere and causing Tesco great embarrassment.

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Tesco decided they would only give me 90p for each Scottish pound I was tendering for payment

 

Exchange rate or charge? Have you asked for an explanation? Was it really a ploy to discourage you from going there again?

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