ESA compared to Incapacity Benefit / Income Support

[Foebane72]

Thanks, Antone.

[star cannibal]

The DWP won't send out any information,or a form to claim Income Related ESA - if you don't request the form they'll most likely just stop paying your benefit after the 365 days.

It's worth upgrading to Recorded Delivery too.

[antone]

The DWP won't send out any information,or a form to claim Income Related ESA - if you don't request the form they'll most likely just stop paying your benefit after the 365 days.

It's worth upgrading to Recorded Delivery too.

 

Yes, ESA3 forms are apparently an endangered species. Someone here has posted up a printable version, though.

 

They are supposed to inform someone whose ESA© claim is about to time out but yeah, that doesn't always happen. The general rule is that one should never, ever rely on the DWP to tell them about their benefit entitlement. That's not actually what the DWP is for.

[Foebane72]

So if they don't tell me, I might find myself without benefit without warning? And is this printable ESA3 form valid for DWP?

[antone]

So if they don't tell me, I might find myself without benefit without warning? And is this printable ESA3 form valid for DWP?

 

Yes, the printable ESA3 seems to be OK. It's just a standard "change of circumstances" form, and as long as you sign it we've not heard of anyone having a problem. We had it on the forum, but I can't remember where. I'll have a look for it, but it's late now so will probably be tomorrow before I can find it. Perhaps someone else can remember where it is?

 

You could, possibly, find your benefit stopped without warning. Not supposed to happen, but apparently it does. I'd send in the form ASAP - there's no good reason to delay. It's quite a long form, but most people find that a lot of it doesn't apply to them, so it's not as bad as it seems at first glance.

[matt v atos]

Yes got mine today will be posting about this on my thread !

[worried33]

I will warn you again based on my own personal experience, in 2012 I had to fill in a ESA1 form (I think ESA1 is a new claims form) and as I was trying to get it to them as fast as possible I got it printed out ( a hassle in itself lots and lots of pages ), sent it off, only to be found it was rejected on the basis of not been in exactly the right order, they wanted it printed out so it was exactly the same layout and order as the pre printed versions.

 

So I mean like each sheet has 2 pages, one on each side, they were moaning some were upside down, and that most had the wrong page on the other side of the sheet meaning the order was wrong.

 

Maybe I was just unlucky, but thought I would warn you if you plan to print it out as the ESA3 is a big form.

[Foebane72]

Thanks, Worried. I'll see if my voluntary workplace will let me print out the form on their copier machine.

 

Wouldn't my benefit be reduced once I'm on income-based ESA? At the moment it's £102.70 a week, but it might go down to £71 earlier if I fill out this form earlier.

 

In all honesty I remember when I was told I was going on ESA and was quite dismayed, only to be quite surprised that the amount was identical to the old IS benefit. But I suspect it will only last for the one year.

[worried33]

No it will only be reduced if you are found fit for work and have to appeal (then dropping to assessment rate).

 

As far as I am aware the rate for WRAG is equal on both CB and IB ESA. Its possible I am wrong but if it is different it should only be a small difference.

 

The £71 is the assessment rate and not related to if it's contribution or income based.

 

If antone is right then this wont trigger a WCA, of course you havent mentioned when your WCA is possibly due, but until you have another WCA you should be stll be treated as limited capability to work.

 

I need to be careful replying to questions as sometimes I am wrong and corrected by someone

[Foebane72]

If I send off the form early, will they change it right there and then or when the 12 months is up?

[worried33]

absolutely no idea sorry.

[Foebane72]

No it will only be reduced if you are found fit for work

 

When I hear that I think "automatic move to JSA"

[**Margaret**]

:Foebane72:

 

Far from clear whether your current award of employment n support is contributions or income flavoured. But from what you've written, and the £102.70 per week, I think you were previously in receipt of incapacity benefit topped up by income support. In theory, claimants with wholly contributions flavoured awards get a letter about the end of the three hundred and sixty five days but lots of them don't. If any part of your current award is income flavoured, the transfer to a wholly income flavoured award should be automatic but sometimes isn't. So to be on the safe side; an ESA3 (at #7) to Jobcentreplus in April.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?387812-ESA-365-Limit

 

All the ESA3 forms I've downloaded and printed from CAG have been accepted. From April 14 the proposed rate for income flavoured employment n support with the work related activity component is £101.15. Your rate won't change until May.

 

Transfer between flavours of employment n support doesn't trigger a work capability assessment. In due course you may be reassessed for employment n support. But even if you were found fit for work, transfer to jobseekers wouldn't be automatic, you'd have to make a claim.

 

Best wishes, Margaret.

[Helen2264]

So if they don't tell me, I might find myself without benefit without warning? And is this printable ESA3 form valid for DWP?

 

I would advise you to get that ESA3 form as soon as possible and fill it up and send it at least 4 weeks before your ESA congtribution-based runs out. My friend cathy was on esa contribution-based her money stopped after the 365 days rules since december, she did not get a single letter from the dwp letting her know which they should have, we are now in february she still with any benefit or money, her case is now in the hand of my Local MP, dwp still have not send a single letter and when I asked them for the Manager's name to make a complain they flatly refused, so I had to take matter with the MP now we are waiting for a reply from my local MP.

[Helen2264]

If I send off the form early, will they change it right there and then or when the 12 months is up?

 

Send the form two months early at least and keep a copy, send it by special delivery or better still you could have it email to the processing centre if your local job centre let you send email. They still lose form that are send by recorded delivery cathy's went missing until I threatened with law matter miraculously the form was found less than an hour but still the decision makers has just dump her form without a backward glance.

 

You are lucky to know well in advance cathy was not so lucky and was not aware her benefit would stop after 365 days, 9 weeks now without money nor that she is on any benefit.

[Foebane72]

I think I've made a massive error on this thread, and I think the letters I have received from the DWP tell me that I was entitled to income-related ESA in the first place, from a letter last year, so the contributino thing was all wrong.

 

If I scan all the letters I have received from them about this and link to them here, can someone tell me exactly what is going on? I will of course blank out confidential information.

[antone]

I think I've made a massive error on this thread, and I think the letters I have received from the DWP tell me that I was entitled to income-related ESA in the first place, from a letter last year, so the contributino thing was all wrong.

 

If I scan all the letters I have received from them about this and link to them here, can someone tell me exactly what is going on? I will of course blank out confidential information.

 

You're welcome to do that, and I would imagine people will do their best. DWP letters can be a bit, well, opaque however, but we'll try.

[Foebane72]

These are the letters relating to the ESA award - sorry for the fuzzy quality in places:

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v175/Foebane/ESA1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v175/Foebane/ESA2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v175/Foebane/ESA3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v175/Foebane/ESA4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v175/Foebane/ESA5.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v175/Foebane/ESA6.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v175/Foebane/ESA7.jpg

 

What puzzles me is that I'm certain I read somewhere in the letters about the one-year limit. Did I imagine it?

 

Let me know what you think, everyone.

[worried33]

I think its income related, the wording is slightly different to my CB letter.

 

It does seem they using the same template for both and only changing a few words hence the confusion. So it doesnt surprise me you have parts of the CB letter mixed in with yours as they didnt remove all the information, like in my letter it has information about income based as it was left in on the template.

 

I looked again and sadly I am not 100% sure, the only difference on my letter aside from changes related to my personal circumstances is on the last sheet below the income calculation it says.

 

"however because you are entitled to contribution ..............................."

 

You are missing that line.

 

I dont know if the DWP are been deliberatly vague in information on letters sent out or its just lazyness on the templates they use, eg. I have never got a ESA decision letter of them, this isnt a decision letter, there is supposed to be another one before it that shows more information like prognisis time and how many points you got but they never seem to send it out. Maybe this other letter says more clearly if its contribution or income based.

[Foebane72]

I think its income related, the wording is slightly different to my CB letter.

 

It does seem they using the same template for both and only changing a few words hence the confusion. So it doesnt surprise me you have parts of the CB letter mixed in with yours as they didnt remove all the information, like in my letter it has information about income based as it was left in on the template.

 

So I don't have to do a thing, and it's essentially a change in the payment rate like I used to get every year with IB/IS because of inflation (I assume)?

[worried33]

Wait for someone else to reply as I am not sure.

 

If you want to be sure you may have to ring to ask which one you on.

[antone]

Looks income related to me, yes, so no, you don't need to do anything. As you suspect, that last letter has to do with a change in the payment rates, which are "uprated" each year in April. As a claimant on ESA(IR) you will not be affected by a 365 day limit.

 

Your actual amount will not change as a result of the uprating, though, because you already receive a couple of pounds per week more than someone who claimed ESA directly, as opposed to being transferred from IB/IS. This is often called "transitional protection".

[Foebane72]

Thank you, Antone.

 

The thing is, I'm certain I read about the 365-day limit somewhere. There were a couple of letters that said I was moving onto ESA back last year, and so one of them may have mentioned the limit. I didn't scan them, but I will have a closer look at them.

[antone]

Thank you, Antone.

 

The thing is, I'm certain I read about the 365-day limit somewhere. There were a couple of letters that said I was moving onto ESA back last year, and so one of them may have mentioned the limit. I didn't scan them, but I will have a closer look at them.

 

The letters are computer generated, and whoever wrote the software that produces them was apparently drunk or illiterate. It's quite possible that it mentioned the 365 days in passing, even though it may not apply to you.

 

Still, if you want to be sure, give them a call and ask.

[Foebane72]

The letters are computer generated, and whoever wrote the software that produces them was apparently drunk or illiterate. It's quite possible that it mentioned the 365 days in passing, even though it may not apply to you.

 

Still, if you want to be sure, give them a call and ask.

 

I did that just now: I'm on INCOME-related ESA. I even asked for written confirmation, but it took the JSA lady a good minute or two to organise that, for some bizarre reason.