ESA compared to Incapacity Benefit / Income Support

[Foebane72]

I am 40 this month and am currently on £220 Housing Benefit per month and £202.70 Income Support (Incapacity Benefit) per fortnight, and I have been concerned about the "horror stories" concerning the ATOS reassessments based on their medical examinations. I personally take medication, like Sulpiride for anxiety and paranoia, and Omeprazole for a hiatal hernia caused by my abdominal obesity, ie. I look like a pregnant man, my belly is so big. My knees are also quite stiff, and I don't like resting on them to look in cupboards and so forth.

 

So when I get a letter from ATOS/DWP saying I have to come in for a medical, I just go ahead and answer truthfully, right?

 

If I'm deemed fit for work, I will have to attend interviews and so on, but for a while will only end up with something like £71 per week during the "assessment phase", but eventually end up on the "work-related activity group" at £99.15, right? That sounds not much less at all than the benefit I'm on now, which is a good thing. And I've been thinking about reentering employment for a long time now, as voluntary work just isn't cutting it and I want more money, frankly. The job market is dismal, but I'm strangely confident, for some reason.

 

I would class myself as only slightly disabled, but is it the fear of reduced benefits or having to travel to interviews that are petrifying the genuinely needy disabled people out there, leading to the poverty and suicides we've heard about when they're deemed fit for work? Or am I missing something?

 

Also, does the Universal Credit mean that Housing Benefit and ESA will be all combined into one lump sum per month?

[RaeUK]

... is it the fear of reduced benefits or having to travel to interviews that are petrifying the genuinely needy disabled people out there, leading to the poverty and suicides we've heard about when they're deemed fit for work? Or am I missing something? ...

 

Yes, you're missing the entire crux of the matter. The people who appear worst hit by this system are those who are genuinely extremely ill or disabled and are medically unfit for work. Due to the built-in bias of the ATOSH system they invariably get informed that they are fit for work despite supporting evidence to the contrary. Believing they have no alternative other than to present themselves at the Jobcentre, they do so only to be told they are clearly unfit for work and unsuitable for JSA. Faced with the prospect of no finacial support, no food and the loss of whatever place they call home, is it surprising some commit suicide in a despair brought about by an ill-thought out system of so-called benefit improvements?

[Nystagmite]

If you're put into one of the groups, you won't lose money.

[Foebane72]

I see now - thank you, RaeUK.

 

That IS bad. I didn't mean any disrespect to people here in that position, or their relatives.

[RaeUK]

Just to clarify for you, Foebane, I don't think anyone would have misconstrued your post as disrespectful! You posted an honest appraisal and I made one minor correction for you. Many people get to the right solution with ESA. Quite a few don't. And unfortunately it's a complete disaster for a few others. I'd like to think it's mainly down to a new benefit system bedding in. But it's been in place now for four years ...

[**Margaret**]

:Foebane72:

 

Fraid you were missing the iniquity of a work capability assessment that's simply not fit for purpose.

Forget incap days, they're long gone. It may help for you to know what to expect when you're assessed for employment and support allowance.

 

Letter from Jobcentreplus to explain that the ConDems want to support you into work.

 

Phone call from Jobcentreplus, you don't have to answer if you don't want to, which explains the reassessment process.

 

An ESA50 questionaire to complete. It's been described as the most unfit for purpose form Work n Pensions has ever produced.

 

A face-to-face assessment, nowt vaguely medical about it, with an Atosser who'll ask whether you can reheat a pizza and which soap opera you'll watch while eating it. His/her ESA85 report, unless it's decided that you meet a support group descriptor or qualify through exceptional/special circumstances for the support component of employment and support allowance, will be a load of computer generated claptrap saying;

 

Fit for work;

 

Either, sign a jobseeker's agreement, whether or not you're well enough to comply with it. Get £70ish a week jobseeker's allowance, until you get sanctioned for non compliance.

 

Or, if you believe you satisfy the criteria for either the work related activity component or support component of employment and support allowance, appeal the decision at tribunal. Dammed hard work and very stressful. Get £70ish a week while parked on employment and support allowance assessment rate for months on end.

 

Fit for work related activity;

 

Work related activity component means £100ish a week. A bit more for some previous incap claimants with transitional protection. Work focused interviews. Some advisors ask what you're doing to find work, but for the moment you can't be mandated to apply for or accept employment.

 

The computer generated claptrap is produced by an Atosser who knows everything there's to know about the effects of your condition, even if s/he's never heard of it. Far more than your psychiatrist or gastroenterologist whose's reports are unlikely to get read.

 

Fore warned is fore armed, Margaret.

 

:Edit:

 

Like :RaeUK: I didn't see anything to get upset about in your original post. The complexities of employment and support allowance would defeat Einstein!!!

Edited September 24, 2012 by **Margaret**

[Foebane72]

So you're saying they're trying to put EVERYONE on JSA? In any case, I see how screwed up the situation is now.

 

Are the government not doing anything about fixing this problem? Do they even CARE?

[Zonker]

Its an unfit for purpose 'test' seemingly aimed at removing as many people from 'higher' benefits, whilst in the meantime enriching a foreign company who is being portrayed by certain government figures as blameless.

 

Sorry if that sounded a bit harsh but is much much easier on the ears than what i first thought.

 

Dame Anne Begg's view:

 

[Foebane72]

Thanks, Zonker.

 

I'm in Fairwater, Cardiff - any idea when I should be expecting the ATOS letter? I'm surprised it's taken this long for them to get to me.

 

In any case, I'll probably only get a few points at most and be declared "fit for work", like all the others.

 

EDIT: So if I pass the medical, I won't get ESA in either form AT ALL?

Edited September 24, 2012 by Foebane72

[Zonker]

im afraid youll have to wait on another to say anything more. I havnt got my head around esa fully yet and dont want give wrong advise.

[**Margaret**]

:Foebane72:

 

Although the legislation refers to a medical examination it's nowt of the sort. The Atossers call it a medical assessment but there's still nowt medical about it.

 

Anyways, should the assessor recommend that you're fit for work, you'll be invited to claim jobseekers allowance. The only employment and support allowance available to you will be the assessment rate (evidenced by Med3 (unfit) notes from your doctor) if you decide to appeal a disallowance of your claim.

 

Regards, Margaret.

Edited September 24, 2012 by **Margaret**

[Foebane72]

What about the Housing Benefit - is that affected or does it remain unchanged?

[RaeUK]

If you appeal, providing you send in (un)fit notes and keep the assessment rate going, then HB and CTB will continue. Always worth giving them a ring at the appropriate time as the DWP are very quick to close the case once a failed WCA is registered.

[Foebane72]

What's the difference between an appeal and a tribunal?

 

And is it true that the benefits could be stopped outright during either?

[**Margaret**]

:Foebane72:

 

An appeal against disallowance of a Work n Pensions benefit is made to a (social entitlement) tribunal.

 

The administrative system is due to change next year, but for the moment;

 

Disallowance.

 

Send GL24 or letter to Jobcentreplus to appeal the disallowance.

Jobcentreplus reconsider their decision, but hardly ever change it.

 

GL24 or letter, together with Jobcentreplus's evidence for not revising their decision, is forwarded to the Tribunals Service which is part of the Ministry of Justice. Claimant is sent a copy of Jobcentreplus's evidence at the same time.

 

An appellant who appeals the findings of a work capability assessment can apply for assessment rate employment and support allowance pending the appeal hearing if their doctor supplies Med3 (unfit notes).

 

Regards, Margaret.

[Foebane72]

ESA at assessment rate = 71.00 per week

JSA = 71.00 per week

 

What's the difference? Is it that with ESA you don't have to sign on every fortnight?

[honeybee13]

What's the difference between an appeal and a tribunal?

 

And is it true that the benefits could be stopped outright during either?

 

Hello there.

 

Another way of looking at the appeal part, as I understand it, is that you're asking the DWP to reconsider their decision not to allow ESA. If their decision maker [DM] decides to uphold that decision, and most of the time they seem to, then you go to the independent tribunal.

 

Does that help at all?

 

I'm not up to speed on the benefit being stopped part, but the guys will know.

 

My best, HB

[**Margaret**]

:Foebane72:

Claimants in receipt of employment and support allowance are not required to 'sign on' as available for work. In some circumstances they may be required to attend work focused interviews.

Regards, Margaret.

[RaeUK]

ESA at assessment rate = 71.00 per week

JSA = 71.00 per week

 

What's the difference? Is it that with ESA you don't have to sign on every fortnight?

 

ESA = sickness benefit = unfit for work.

JSA = unemployment benefit = fit for work.

 

No matter how they try to muddy the waters, that remains the basic description.

[Foebane72]

I think the fact is, that even with the problems I mentioned in my opening post, I AM "fit for work".

 

I haven't received the ATOS letter yet, but I'm expecting it before the end of this year, and I'm getting myself prepared to go back into full-time employment if I have to, however scarce the jobs market.

 

I will see if I can go on a Shaw Trust "back to work" programme when ATOS happens, and I hope to remain employed beyond the initial period. I was in this situation back in 2004, but the company didn't keep me on - I'm hoping things will be different this time.

[fightingback99]

ESA at assessment rate = 71.00 per week

JSA = 71.00 per week

 

What's the difference? Is it that with ESA you don't have to sign on every fortnight?

 

Not quite. Going back to the beginning, first you receive a detailed form to fill in and return. Once that's done you may be called for an assessment which is not medical but allegedly a 'capability' assessment. During this time (and it can take weeks from returning the form to being given an 'assessment' date)

you'll continue to receive your normal IB benefit.

 

After attending your assessment , you'll get a letter to say you've failed or passed. the assessment. At which point if you've failed you will lose your IB benefit. For HB to continue you just need to let the council know you still require it from an income point of view.

 

Next it's your decision whether to appeal the assessment decision or go and calim JSA. If you do decide to appeal then you ask to be reinstated on ESA assessment rate ,at the same time as you contact DWP to say you want to appeal with a doctor's sick note. YOu will then be paid what's called an ESA assessment rate of £71. Once this has started it will continue until the date of your appeal Tribunal, as long as you keep submitting continuous doctors sick notes. It can take many months of being on this rate till a Tribunal date is set up.

 

If you win at the Tribunal you will be repaid any difference between the ESA assessment rate and what you should have got, .backdated to the date you originally failed the assessment.

 

If you lose your appeal at the Tribunal at that point you lose the ESA assessment rate of £71 and be told to claim JSA or whatever.

 

Hopefully that all makes sense.

[worried33]

ESA at assessment rate = 71.00 per week

JSA = 71.00 per week

 

What's the difference? Is it that with ESA you don't have to sign on every fortnight?

 

but you may have to attend interviews still?

 

also getting sick notes may be more or less hassle depending how sympathetic GP is, I was getting sick notes only lasting 2 weeks whilst others manage to get 3 month sick notes.

 

I now have no GP at all for 6 weeks, my head GP got kicked out, so my arrangement going to his other surgery is now stopped and I now have had to register at another GP. The first GP wanted photo id, I asked how am I supposed to get that, the second accepted me but with a 6 weeks wait before I can use them.

[Minibits]

This is my first post, and thank you all for making this site so informative and friendly.

 

I have searched quite a bit, but cannot seem to find an answer, so thought someone here might know... is it possible to claim income support to top up the assessment rate of £71, if it is deemed to be less than you need to live on?

[Foebane72]

Thanks very much, FightingBack99!

[Slatted]

This is my first post, and thank you all for making this site so informative and friendly.

 

I have searched quite a bit, but cannot seem to find an answer, so thought someone here might know... is it possible to claim income support to top up the assessment rate of £71, if it is deemed to be less than you need to live on?

 

Sorry to say that £71 is the amount that the Govt have deemed the minimum needed....no idea how they have come to that conclusion though.