MKDP/Rapid Recoveries debt chasing - failing to fulfill CCA request HSBC loan

[eggy1]

Hi, first time posting, hoping to get some help.

 

Back in 2008 I took out a CC from HSBC, spent a few thousand and soon after defaulted due to redundancy. I think I made 3 payments in total. HSBC chased this debt for maybe a year, but I explained I had zero money and ignored them. The last I heard anything about this debt was some time in 2009.

 

After 3 years of silence I thought I'd been pretty lucky, I was employed for that 3 year period but no one seemed to be chasing me for this money at all. Around March this year HSBC wrote to me to advise the debt had been passed to MKDP, who also contacted me with demands to set up a payment plan.

 

This couldn't have been worse timing, as I had been made redundant again a week before. I know that morally I owe this money, and would have began repayment during my employment, but once again I am being hounded for money I do not have. All of my JSA is allocated and I am currently having to live off my thankfully large and up until my redundancy, unused bank overdraft.

 

So to pay off this debt would only mean getting into more debt. After 6 months of letters MKDP advised they will begin legal procedures if I do not pay up. I sent a CCA request. I know these don't have as much power as they used to, but after reading about how incompetent MKDP are I hoped it would stymie them for a time. They replied today with only a copy of a notice of assignment, the exact thing HSBC sent me back in March when they informed me the debt had been sold.

 

The letter I sent very clearly stated my request of the CCA. They even cashed the £1 cheque I sent. So I'm hoping for some advice on what to do next. Are MKDP in default for effectively ignoring my CCA request? Should I bring this to the attention of trading standards? Or maybe just re-send the CCA request, with stronger wording? Do I take this as evidence they don't have a copy of the CCA and should now just ignore them?

 

Thanks for any help.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Write to MKDPs compliance manager thus.

 

Ref: as on their letter.

 

Dear Sir or Madam

 

FORMAL NOTICE OD DISPUTE.

 

I refer to your letter dated xx xx xxxx received on xx xx xxxx in reply to my lawful request made under sections 77/78 of CCA 1974, as you are well aware the document provided is not anything more than a notice of assignment and can in no way satisfy my request therefore this matter is in dispute and I cannot enter into further correspondence regarding this.

 

No doubt you are aware of the OFT Guidance regarding the pursuit of properly disputed debts..

 

 

I am sending a copy of this letter and your response to the OFT together with my complaint regarding your companys conduct.

[bigshoes...bigsocks]

They even cashed the £1 cheque I sent.

 

Did you sign the cheque?

 

For future reference use postal orders - there are stories on these boards of DCA's lifting signatures from cheques and letters and putting them on to agreements. I've never seen it happen but that's the word on the grapevine.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

No point in sending a cheque if it's not signed.

 

I agree in all the years I have been dealing with debt/financial problems that''old wives'' tale has been around

and I have never seen it proved.

[robcag]

NatWest have admitted in writing that customer(s) signature(s) have been forged by their staff, so best not to put temptation in a dodgy creditors way by providing a signature. Although that might not be quite the same as 'photoshop' copy/pasting of a signature, it's best not to assist any possible attempt by giving them your signature so they have something to base their potential 'artwork' on.

 

Better safe than sorry.

 

Rob

[eggy1]

I have an update for you, and require further help. Thanks for all the information and advice that has been posted so far.

 

Before I had a chance to send the Formal Notice of Dispute mentioned above, MKDP sent me a letter the last of week of September saying they do not have access to the documents I've requested, and will be sourcing them from HSBC shortly.

 

Today I received a pack with, according to MKDP, "the documents you have requested". These are the last 5 monthly statements that HSBC sent me back in 2008 (May, June, July, September and October - August is missing). There was no copy of the original credit agreement in the pack, and nothing with my signature on it. The majority of the credit card had been used by May, they have for some reason not bothered to send me statements from before May, showing the majority of the accumulation of the debt.

 

They have also sent a final demand letter, threatening legal action/bailiffs/CCJ etc if I do not pay up soon. I am still unemployed and paying them anything right now would mean using overdrafts or credit cards to do so.

 

Where do I stand at the moment? Are MKDP in breach of the CCA for not providing the original credit agreement (it's been well over a month since I first requested it). Is there anything more I can do? Or should I just negotiate the smallest monthly payment possible?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Just send this by recorded delivery separately from the complaint.

 

Ref: as on their letter.

 

To the Compliance Manager.

 

 

Dear Curr bor madman.

 

I am in receipt of your letter dated xx xx xxxx and have noted the documents enclosed, which appear to be nothing more than statements, as previously stated I do not acknowledge any debt to MKDP and if these documents are intended to represent a compliant credit agreement under sections 77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 I presume you realise that is has no merit what so ever.

 

Therefore this matter remains in formal dispute, and I am sure you realise that to make threats of court action in this situation is a breach of OFT Guidance on Debt Collection 2003 up dated October 2011, I will no bother bto quote chapter and verse because if your conduct of this account is typical of the incompetanc of MKDP I sure you will have been told this many times before.

 

This formal, reasonable dispute is also covered in the Guidance and again I am sure you are fully aware of what is stated there.

 

No furthe correspondence can be entered into until a compliant/enforceable agreement is produced, meanwhile the conduct of MKDP is to be reported to the OFT immediately.

[eggy1]

Sounds good. Thanks again! Will let you know of any further responses.

[eiggy]

Hi eggy1

 

Came across your thread as I'm planning to make a cca request to these guys and was wondering if you heard any more about this.

 

Thanks.

[eggy1]

I have another update for you and I'm hoping someone, Mr. Brigadier in particular, can help. Thanks in advance.

 

MKDP are on to me again after having finally sent a copy of the T&Cs that were used at the time I opened the account. They argued that an exact copy was not needed as per Carey vs HSBC, which I understand is correct.

 

The thing is, I have since reviewed the account using a credit check and found that I actually opened it in September 2007, not in 2008 as I stated earlier. I know that I didn't make very many payments on the account at all, and that it defaulted a year later in September 2008. My credit file though does not state what payments I did or did not make. The entry of the agreement on my credit file has been done by MKDP as far as I can see. The section "Date Last Delinquent" has been left blank. If I opened the account in September 2007, then as per Limitations 1980 the debt will become unenforceable in the next 2-5 months, depending on when my final payment was (to be honest, it may be the case that I never made any payments at all).

 

So, I'm wondering if an SAR letter to MKDP will reveal when I actually made the final payment? If it is the case that I never made a payment after opening the account, does that mean that the 6 year limitation starts from September 2007 (I have never had a CCJ or court related action for this account, and I have not acknowledged the debt in any of my correspondence with MKDP)? Or are transactions that I used the credit for counted as well?

 

If MKDP do not have any records of when the last payment I made was (previous statements they've sent me only go as far back as May 2008), how do they know, indeed how does anyone know, when exactly the 6 year limitation starts from? Will an SAR reveal this? If not, what is the next best step?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi, reading through this thread I agree a SAR is your best course you really need to be certain of the payment dates, however can you tell me what the default date is on the credit files please?

We may be able to draw a conclusion from that as to when the last payment was made.

[eggy1]

Default date is down as 28/09/2008. Account opening is 16/09/2007. There is a "Date Updated" as well, down as 23/02/2012. I believe this is when MKDP bought the debt.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

So approx. a year from inception the account goes into default, if you only made for example 3 payments and then ceased to pay completely I would expect a default on or around March/April 2008 and possibly earlier if you made fewer or no payments at all.

 

So a SAR is most important now, use the template from the CAG library, send a cheque or Postal Order for the statutory fee, mark both front and back of cheque/PO 'For Statutory Fee only''. They have 40 calendar days to comply, address to the Compliance Manager, send by recorded/signed for post.

[eggy1]

I know from the statements they sent me that no payments were being made by myself as early as May 2008. The thing is, the account in question was a credit card. The May 2008 statement identifies the point that the amount I was borrowing went above the agreed credit limit. Before May 2008, I'm unsure if I was in breach of anything as I was under the credit limit, and it's possible that payments were not necessary before then (there may have been some sort of 6 month "pay later" period to start with, it was quite a "high level" CC). So it may be possible that I made no payments, but they did not start warning me of missed payments until May 2008, and then defaulted the account 4 months later.

 

Regardless, I'll get the SAR sent off as I'm only theorising!

[eggy1]

Just wanted to check something else quickly. Most posts I see here re: SB accounts, the circumstances are that dodgy companies contact people well after the 6 year period. If during my discussion/correspondence with MKDP, the 6 year limit expires, can they claim any concession due to the fact that they first contacted me whilst the debt was enforceable, and it only became unenforceable due to the amount of time it took them to get the information I requested? Or is the onus on them to be speedy about such things? It took them half a year to supply me with the T&Cs!

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi eggy,

Make sure you specifically request statements of the account from inception to closure.

 

Also any written contact with MKDP/Rapid should contain the phrase '' This communication is NOT admission of any liability to MKDP'' somewhere in the text, this includes the SAR.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

As to acknowledgment of debts The OFT Guidance on Debt Collection 2003/2012 Appendix B is clear that any admission of liability is achieved in the following ways:

 

ANY payment by the debtor/or his representative at any time in the six year period and or unequivocal written admission that a liability still subsists.

[eggy1]

Hello again.

 

MKDP have got back to my data request. The extent of the data they apparently hold on me is the T&Cs for the CC, and the May-Sept 2008 statements they originally sent me a year ago. Other than that, just some brief data entries detailing when they've received correspondence off me or tried my phone etc.

 

So, no new statements and no further information regarding when the date of first delinquency might be. To reiterate, the statements they do have make clear no payments were made during that period, thus the date of first delinquency must be between Sept 2007 and April 2008. Obviously, we are now in that ball park. Also, the entry on my credit file for this debt has no entry in the "date of first delinquency" field.

 

So, how to proceed? If neither party can demonstrate when we are 6 years past the date of first delinquency, when it's possible that it has already past, what happens? It was a long time ago, but I honestly don't recall making any payments at all for this account. Could I not send them a standard statute barred letter, expressing my belief that we are at least 6 years and 1 month passed the first delinquency date, and that I have no intention of paying the debt?

 

Would they then have to prove otherwise? Or does providing proof fall to me? The data entries on their system reveal they requested "statements" from HSBC last year when I requested documents then, and that is all HSBC sent them. So it's possible even HSBC do not have statements older than May 2008.

 

Any ideas? Thanks again in advance!

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi, yes a statute barred letter carefully worded so as not to mention any dates, e.g. 'Having checked my credit history I have concluded that this alleged debt is statute barred therefore I will not make any payment'.,

 

MKDP is reminded that should it dispute the status of the alleged debt that the onus of providing unequivocal proof that it is not statute barred falls entirely upon MKDP.

 

I therefore consider this matter closed.

 

Send by recorded/signed for post and check date received.

[ims21]

It seems like you sent a SAR to MKDP?

 

If that is the case you should have sent the SAR to the original creditor.

 

You will be in a better position then to establish whether this is SB or not.