Confused about appeal process

[mokod]

Hi,

 

I am helping someone with their benefit where they have been denied ESA after ATOS medical, so I am helping them with the appeal process. However I am slightly unsure of the process, I've read up alot on it, so here is where I am.

 

1) We submit the appeal form - filling in gl24 form plus a letter using the template of honeybee.

 

2) What happens next? do we need to see a solicitor when it goes to tribunal etc?

 

I am really not sure , so would be massively helpful if someone can clarify.

 

CHeers y'all

[RaeUK]

Number 1) looks good enough to me. No 2) is wait. Then wait some more. Then repeat step 2) again.

 

If you've sent off your GL24 stating you want to appeal and done so within the one month deadline then that's all you need worry about for the minute. If you sketched out the reasons why you wished to appeal then that's just a little bonus.

In time, you will get acknowledgement from the DWP. They will look at your GL24 and a Decision maker will review the decision. If they cannot change it then the file will be sent to the Tribunals Service. You will eventually be sent about three and a half tonne of bumpf which includes the DWP's evidence to decline ESA and the full ATOSH gobbledegook report. Review this with a fine tooth comb and build your rebuttal on it.

Submit all your evidence including a detailed demolition of the ATOSH report to the Tribunal Service.

Eventually, again, a date will be sent for the actual Tribunal. Turn up.

That's it. The entire process can take anywhere up to a year but may be quicker. No solicitor is required and none would be interested. You can seek further advice from CAB, Welfare Rights or Dial.

It wouldn't hurt to phone your DWP BDC to ask if they've received your GL24 in a week or so.

 

*Important* keep sending in the (un)fit notes in good time to ensure receipt of ESA at the assessment rate continues...

Edited September 15, 2012 by RaeUK

[**Margaret**]

mokod:

 

Number 1 looks good to me as well. If you've already got a copy of the ESA85 Atosh gobbledegook use it but doesn't matter if you haven't. For reference, it's available on request from Jobcentreplus from two days after the messical, but don't let getting it delay the GL24 appeal form.

 

:honeybee13:'s sticky is an excellent guide for an appeal submission. Another guide that we've found useful is Disability Rights UK Factsheet 36.

 

Can't over emphasise the importance of an oral hearing. During August, I saw three first tier tribunal decisions. All of them upheld. All of them included the phrase 'The Tribunal received cogent oral evidence'.

 

Best wishes and a cheery panda , Margaret.

[mokod]

Many thanks for the info, really appreciate it.

 

I have one other question I am currently wriitng a rebuttal against the report ESA 65 01/12, is this correct? Also am I correct in htinking this the Atos asessors findings?

[mokod]

Also the atos guy has lied on every thing statament, can i write in the appeal letter that he has lied and i find this unporfessional?

[Nystagmite]

Many thanks for the info, really appreciate it.

 

I have one other question I am currently wriitng a rebuttal against the report ESA 65 01/12, is this correct? Also am I correct in htinking this the Atos asessors findings?

 

Yes and yes. You would need to explain in detail how the criteria is met. For example "I am unable to mobilise 50 meters due to arthritis in my shoulders and hands. Using aids such as a wheelchair are painful. The last time I tried to mobilise, I spent the rest of the day in pain and unable to do anything". or something like that anyway - explain why the criteria is met and what happened the last time this person tried to do the activity.

[**Margaret**]

mokod:

 

An ESA65 is the disallowance notice from Jobcentreplus. It's a summary of the Atosser's findings and the decision maker's reasons, based on the Atosser's findings, for disallowance.

 

The full report is an ESA85. Available on request from Jobcentreplus or there should be a copy among Jobcentreplus's 'bumpf', that they copy to you when they send the appeal to the Tribunals Service.

 

'can I write in the appeal letter that he has ......' Praps better to settle for an explanation of where the ESA65 is wrong and why the claimant meets the employment and support allowance descriptors. Have you got a copy of the descriptors? If not, Google ESA214. They're at the end of the booklet.

 

Best wishes, Margaret.

Edited September 16, 2012 by **Margaret**

[RaeUK]

Also the atos guy has lied on every thing statament, can i write in the appeal letter that he has lied and i find this unporfessional?

 

No, I'm afraid you can't complain. When they join ATOS they take the hypocritic oath and are duty bound to lie. The 'P' in HCP doesn't stand for 'Professional', it stands for 'Pinocchio' ...

[**Margaret**]

:lie:

Highly Competent Pinocchios :?:

Margaret.

[RaeUK]

Gold star to Starryeyes! I was too slow witted to get further than the P. You are right, may the ATOS HCPs be forever known as ATOS Highly Competent Pinocchios

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

There's also a link to the descriptors in the appeals sticky, if it helps.

 

Fwiw, I personally wouldn't use emotive words like 'lied' because it may not help your cause. I find 'mislead[ing] is useful.

 

My best, HB

[**Margaret**]

:honeybee13:

 

for forgetting the link in your sticky and thanks for reminding me.

 

Incredibly, it's eighteen months since I last read it properly, and ten months since Atos partially upheld the complaint (asssessor's lack of basic anatomy and misinterpretation of mental health descriptors) that we used it for. Thanks again.

 

Still Jobcentreplus want to wait for a tribunal hearing. Grrrrrrr ......

 

Sincere thanks, Margaret.

Edited September 17, 2012 by **Margaret**

[speedfreek]

Hello there.

 

There's also a link to the descriptors in the appeals sticky, if it helps.

 

Fwiw, I personally wouldn't use emotive words like 'lied' because it may not help your cause. I find 'mislead[ing] is useful.

 

My best, HB

 

I agree totally HB!

 

You are not fighting ATOS you a trying to score points/qualify under rules in an inflexible system run by the DWP on behalf of the Secretary of State for Social Security.

 

Like it or not that's the be all and end all! Fail to address the above and getting fixated on ATOS is akin to shooting the delivery boy. Whilst it will make you feel better it will not prove anything or win you ESA.

 

Cold hard crispy facts people in a way the intelligent folks on the tribunal panel can understand;

 

Now repeat after me :-

 

I deserve to be awarded ESA because I meet descriptor/rule:-

 

1, give a couple of examples of why

2, see above

3, see above

 

If you can get evidence to back you up all the better if not I'd go for the HCP/DWP misinterpreted 1,2 & 3 and should have looked at it this way.

 

I've always felt ATOS was being dangled just too nicely as a target deliberately. Prob why there talk they soon might be changed. Better the devil you know!

[mokod]

Thank you for all the help, i wrote the likes of "false assumptions" not sure if it was right to write like that, but its been sent now.

 

Doing all this research has made me realise the extreme difficulty so many people are going through not only with their illness but all this scandalous and ridiculous process they have to go through for little support. The whole politic system in this country is so corrupt, all these rich and well off ****** politicians protetcing the interest of their bankers and businessman friends, and putting misery and poverty on the disadvantaged. Really makes me sick and I hope one day justice and equality will be served, this country needs a revolution really.

 

You guys are doing a wonderful job of helping each other.

[RaeUK]

... Doing all this research has made me realise the extreme difficulty so many people are going through not only with their illness but all this scandalous and ridiculous process they have to go through for little support.

 

Welcome to our world, mokod.

[speedfreek]

Rae

 

mokod you'll be fine! Check out how long the average listing date is for your tribunal area and get cracking on nailing a killer submission and gathering evidence.

 

General rule is evidence reports will be accepted/considered by a tribunal 2 weeks before the hearing. It's good old fashioned politeness rather than anything else!

 

Forget whatever you read about evidence too as it's relevance to the condition above anything else. Doesn't matter when it was produced before during after original ESA decision you are appealing against. As long as it shows no change from decision date and you can relate it to it then it's all good.

 

As for submission you have more than one bite at this! The initial appeal is just that it's expected for it to change (with in reason) so bits added taken away as you collect evidence. You should also prepare a break down of the points you're arguing to hand in 45 minutes before the tribunal starts. Helps focus proceedings on what you want!

 

My old welfare right bloke was very good he said basic initial GL24/appeal form; I should have scored points on x & y! Play it like a poker hand then go for it once you have the DWP evidence. This will be sent to you by the tribunal service as soon as the appeal is accepted and gives you an excellent view of what you are fighting against.

 

There's no rite or wrong way of doing this! The tribunal service know what's going on so as long as you're to the point and argue your points well (WITHIN THE RULES) then you get a bit of leeway

 

I'm a bit high on coffee n gin atm so will write up a synopsis when able

 

Today won my 2nd ESA appeal without attending Got phone call saying judge had reviewed and awarded so didn't have to attend the tribunal in 4 hours 7 months wait you bastards

[RaeUK]

... I'm a bit high on coffee n gin atm so will write up a synopsis when able ...

 

Separate or in the same container? I am intrigued ...

 

... Today won my 2nd ESA appeal without attending Got phone call saying judge had reviewed and awarded so didn't have to attend the tribunal in 4 hours 7 months wait you bastards ...

 

This deserves it's own thread! Huge well done and, sorry, LMAO at the close call