Davey & Davey??

[caledfwlch]

Has anyone heard of Davey & Davey of Poole?

 

http://www.daveyauctioneers.co.uk/services/legal/ballifs.html

 

This is on behalf of a friend's partners boss, so I am still waiting for complete information.

 

This company seem to be claiming to be bailiffs working for HMRC (and are threatening to remove a business van)

 

From their website, it is clear that they carry out Auctions of goods seized by Bailiffs, but I cannot find any trace of them AS bailiff's, the company name, and I have tried different spellings does not appear on the certificated bailiff register.

 

Is it even legal for a Bailiff Firm that is seizing goods to also run the auctions? Conflict of interest surely?

 

The strangest thing the rep of this company said was "if you don't give us your van, your debt to HMRC will be doubled" that just strikes me as a very odd thing to say, a Bailiff usually will just be all "take, take, take" not so much "give us your van" as "I am going to take your van"

 

So I am seriously wondering if this company actually has real bailiffs. I am waiting to establish if there is actually a court order too. Might be an interesting one this

 

Edit: Just to add - Can HMRC agents distrain on goods without a Court Order?

Edited September 14, 2012 by caledfwlch

[brassnecked]

Not too sure Caled, but maybe they have just started as bailiffs

[renegadeimp]

Check the register of bailiffs. If theyre not on there then they are in BIG trouble.

 

Oh and it appears they cant even spell bailiffs correctly.

[caledfwlch]

Check the register of bailiffs. If theyre not on there then they are in BIG trouble.

 

I cannot find any sign of the company on the MOJ's register.

 

Hell, Davey & Davey cannot even spell Bailiff properly on their own website! I will have a lot more information tomorrow afternoon, so far I don't think anyone has visited yet, so don't have a personal name to check for certificate, but the company certainly does not appear on the register.

 

I have also done as much research as I can into both Davey & Davey and it's Proprietor/Director, Neil P. Davey, and the company does not seem to be a subsidiary or any kind, so they are not registered at the MOJ under a different name from what I can tell. Mr Davey himself does not hold a Bailiff Certificate, in fact a search on "Davey" only brings up one Bailiff in the whole of England and Wales, and thats a Marston Thug in Southhampton.

 

Like I say, I should have far more info by tomorrow afternoon, so can establish exactly who they are. I am seriously suspecting they are just debt collectors misrepresenting their powers at the moment - its just that thing about them requesting he hand the van over, or his debt will double is ringing alarm bells, that just does not sound bailify, a bailiff would just threaten to take, not request.

[brassnecked]

It could be they offer removal and auction facilities for bailiffs, rather than they having certificated bailiffs in house; perhaps they want some of the van fee.

[renegadeimp]

Well, if they are bailiffs they are very unprofessional. Im thinking its what brassnecked has said. Theyre the external auctioneers for whatever shady bailiff wants to deal with them.

[caledfwlch]

It could be they offer removal and auction facilities for bailiffs, rather than they having certificated bailiffs in house; perhaps they want some of the van fee.

 

As you can see on their website I linked, they do regular auctions of seized goods brought to them by Bailiff's, Police Forces etc. I am wondering if they have been given a little contract to do some bog standard debt collection, and are acting like they are big men, imagining they hold more power than they actually do, something is stinking at moment.

 

I have sent a list of information needed to my mate to get hold of, as since it is HMRC the debt is owed too, we need to proceed carefully.

 

Most urgent info needed of course, is whether there is a Court Order/Judgement or not. Davey and Davey are it seems demanding £30,000 which is what HMRC are claiming is owed. The Proprietor however had actually paid £20,000, but HMRC have lost/borked their own records, the Prop can prove he paid via bank statements though, so hopefully, if there is a court order, we can get it recalled and enforcement stopped anyway due to this mistake.

[brassnecked]

As you can see on their website I linked, they do regular auctions of seized goods brought to them by Bailiff's, Police Forces etc. I am wondering if they have been given a little contract to do some bog standard debt collection, and are acting like they are big men, imagining they hold more power than they actually do, something is stinking at moment.

 

I have sent a list of information needed to my mate to get hold of, as since it is HMRC the debt is owed too, we need to proceed carefully.

 

Most urgent info needed of course, is whether there is a Court Order/Judgement or not. Davey and Davey are it seems demanding £30,000 which is what HMRC are claiming is owed. The Proprietor however had actually paid £20,000, but HMRC have lost/borked their own records, Nothing unusual there then the Prop can prove he paid via bank statements though, so hopefully, if there is a court order, we can get it recalled and enforcement stopped anyway due to this mistake.

 

HMRC are out of control, with completely borked and fskd systems, send proof of payments, (copies) to HMRC, and ask why they are enforcing using this cowboy outfit?

 

They have been using CCS collect for some of their collections, and i have it on good authority that CCS Collect (another cowboy outfit from the DVCA forum) are chasing alleged debtors long after the debt/late payments have been made directly to HMRC, CCS are doing the usual DCA breach of the Prevention from Harassment Act 1997 MO, of 20 or so phone calls and texts per day, and saying not harassment as taxman is creditor, so are entitled to hound and badger the debtor relentlessly. I am dealing with them for a vulnerable person in my area in my area as a community councillor.

 

Wonder if Davey & Davey are subbing for CCS?

[wonkeydonkey]

They seem to be an 'odd job' outfit with no licences for DCA or the enforcement industry?

 

http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/3bf958a2f86a43df3fd28190bf08aba4/compdetails

[ploddertom]

Dependent on what they actually distraining for HMRC (usually Customs & Excise) can "authorise" another person to levy distraint on goods.

[Michelle Ann]

Caled started my thread on my behalf which is on behalf of the owner of the business my partner works for. So here is the fully situation and if anyone can help I would be grateful.

 

The situation as it stands is that HMRC are demanding payment for £30K of unpaid VAT, however, £20K has been paid. HMRC claim to have lost this payment, but the owner has copies of bank statements proving it was paid. The debt goes back two years and there has been a fight for some time over the £20K as the owner refused to pay any more until they found the initial payment, which I honestly didn't think was unreasonable.

 

In July this year, he received a letter from Davey and Davey saying they would be visiting and when they did, they listed the works only van and the owner signed a WPO at the bottom it also states that if the van is not available to be taken they will add 50% of the outstanding amount. Davey and Davey are claiming for the whole £30K as HMRC refuses to look for the £20k payment and lower the debt.

 

The van is owned by the company on the bases it is insured by the company and not individually however, it is a work tool and if he loses it he loses the ability to carry out the work that is done offsite.

 

Now, I've been looking, HMRC can recover debts without a court order but what I am unclear of is whether or not they can use a company that is not registered as a bailiff to do so. There seems to be a massive conflict of information. For one, how do we even know that this company has permission to do this? The owner of the business only has the word of Davey and Davey, who of course wants to collect on the debt.

 

Admittedly, the owner of the business has gone, buried his head in the sand and not dealt with this leaving it to the last minute having known since july that this was happening. Davey and Davey are coming at 10am tomorrow morning to collect the van. For the moment, I've told him to lock the door and not to let anyone onto the premises least he find himself without a van, computers, the printers and cutters (it's a design, printing and sign wiriting company).

 

So if anyone can help, then I would be grateful. As I say, my partner works for this company and not only that, the owner did us a huge personal favour that stopped us from becoming homeless earlier in the year. I don't want to see this happen over HMRC thinking they can just ignore requests to find payments that are the difference between shutting down and staying open.

[renegadeimp]

Get reporting them. They are trying to say that they are bailiffs when they are not, and hold no bailiff registration or licence.

[hallowitch]

this is from tomtubby

 

 

Facts about a Certificated Bailiff.

 

To collect the following debts, by law the bailiff has to be what is called a Certificated Bailiff :

 

• Council Tax,

• Business Rates (NNDR)

• Parking Charge Notices (PCN’s)

• Congestion Charging,

• Child Support Agency

• Inland Revenue

• Customs & Excise (VAT)

• Magistrate Court Fines ( See note)

[Michelle Ann]

So then the business owner should not hand over his van under any circumstances? The outstanding about is VAT.

[lamma]

HMRC's well known IT problems at the root of the lost 20k. Some HMRC idiot has "computer says no" syndrome

[renegadeimp]

Again, this company is not a certificated bailiff. Therefore they are breaking the law. They cannot collect ANYTHING, no matter what they try and say. IF they can prove they are a certificated bailiff and have a warrant/LO THEN they have the right to come and take items. If they cant prove that they are certificated and have the appropriate documentation, then call the police and have them removed. Then make formal complaints.

 

If they try and hand you their licence, make sure you do not allow them access, and go and check that the licence is valid.

 

According to the current certificated bailiff register, they do not hold a licence and arent certificated bailiffs. They could be using a different employer name, or other info, but then you could report them for that.

[Michelle Ann]

Okay, renegadeimp, brilliant.

 

But what about the clause stating that 50% of the debt will be added if he refuses to hand the van over? I suppose it couldn't be applied due to the company not actually being a bailiff.

[renegadeimp]

They said that? OK. it really sounds like a [problem], although i could be very wrong. I'll flag an admin for advice for you, as im not quite sure what advice for you to actually listen to, but from the info here, it does indeed sound very very dodgy.

[renegadeimp]

On any documentation that they have given or sent to you, does it say the bailiff registration, or where they were registered? It is normal practice for any bailiff letter to provide info, such as employer name, bailiff name etc. Especially the latter.

[Michelle Ann]

I've got a copy of the letter sent to the business owner, and it doesn't have a bailiff registration number on it at all. They are a autioneer company in Poole, which also is a little odd, why would they use a company so far away?

[renegadeimp]

Ok. Does it give the bailiff name? As they are required to give that.

[renegadeimp]

ALso, they dont need a court order, but they do need to be a registered bailiff.

 

Authorisation for income tax or VAT arrears

 

Her Majesty's Customs and Excise (HMRC) may use their own enforcement officers or private bailiffs to take away your things for income tax or VAT arrears. They don't need to get a court order first.

 

Taken from http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/debt_e/debt_action_your_creditor_can_take_e/debt_bailiffs_e/about_bailiffs.htm#do_bailiffs_have_to_be_authorised

 

also:

 

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/debt_e/debt_action_your_creditor_can_take_e/debt_bailiffs_e/about_bailiffs.htm#what_to_check_if_you're_visited_by_bailiffs

 

Might be of some use.

[Michelle Ann]

Yeah, I got as far as they didn't need the court order, but I couldn't find clear and definitive advice about the status of who could take the goods.

 

The letter is written and signed by a N.P. Davey there are some letters after his name as well, either PNAVA or INAVA but his signature obscures the first letter.

[renegadeimp]

Thats just his auctioneer "qualification". Thats all.

[dx100uk]

an you please scan up the letter mentioned in post 11

 

 

 

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets - as a picture[jpg] file

don't forget you can use a mobile phone or a digital camera too!!

or

convert existing PC files to PDF [office has an installable print to PDF option]

.

'

BUT......

ENSURE: remove all pers info inc barcodes etc using paint program

but leave all figures and dates.

.

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites

it would be better to upload a multipage pdf if

you have many images too rather than many single pdfs

.

or if you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

or use word and save as pdf

.

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

.

.

dx