Fare evasion - please help - ** SETTLED **

[fcc_help_needed]

Hi all,There is a lot of good advice here so I hope you can help with my situation.

 

My husband used my annual travel card on an FCC train to London with his old travel card photo (he no longer commutes). It was one of those spur of the moment things, making his life easier just using my ticket (how wrong can you be!). He was caught by a ticket inspector who eventually got out of him that he was fare evading and so cautioned him etc. He got a letter from FCC asking for his side of the story. He owned up, apologised, said he wouldn't do it again etc.

He has now just got a letter saying he will be summoned to court and will be advised of the date in due course.

 

He is now beside himself with worry, he is an accountant and so a criminal record is out of the question, plus he has to travel to the US for his job which may harm his employment.I know what he did was wrong but I just can't get my head around why the train companies are so harsh.

 

He already has worked himself up so much he would never so much as step on an ant now....

 

Anyway he spoke to a solicitor who has said not to contact FCC again and wait for the summons. He argued to try and get out of it on a technicality (which is a bit light weight in my opinion) - I just can't see how he would be found anything but guilty given he has already owned up.

 

After reading many threads I see that some people have offered to settle out of court. My feeling is this is what he should do asap to FCC explaining it will harm his job, he has never done anything like this before and never will again.....before the summons comes.

 

Can someone please let me know if this is way to go? Or if we should wait for the summons? At this point I would happily pay £000's to avoid a criminal record for him!

 

Thanks in advance of any advice.

[MARTIN3030]

Welcome to the site.

He argued to try and get out of it on a technicality

 

From what you have said,there is no scope for contemplating this,and if there were such a cause to do so,then why did the Solicitor not identify what that "Technicality" actually is ?

 

If they have indicated a summons has been sent,then all you can do is wait and see if it arrives.

There are many who probably would pay £1000s to avoid a criminal record,but the system does not work like this,and it would be a pretty worrying state of affairs if it did,since it would be unfair to those who did not have the ability to pay.

[fcc_help_needed]

Welcome to the site.

He argued to try and get out of it on a technicality

 

From what you have said,there is no scope for contemplating this,and if there were such a cause to do so,then why did the Solicitor not identify what that "Technicality" actually is ?

 

If they have indicated a summons has been sent,then all you can do is wait and see if it arrives.

There are many who probably would pay £1000s to avoid a criminal record,but the system does not work like this,and it would be a pretty worrying state of affairs if it did,since it would be unfair to those who did not have the ability to pay.

 

I totally get what you are saying, but he hasn't committed murder here or hurt anyone physically, he just did something stupid and is very happy to face up and pay - I just think it is OTT to get a criminal record on a first offence.

 

 

So you think we should just sit tight?

re solicitor - he implied that the inspector may not have followed the rules properly and so could argue policy wasn't followed (or something like that from what I understand - it was my husband who spoke to him).

[MARTIN3030]

There will be more replies here.

Would be helpful if you could find out what aspects of policy were thought to have not been followed.

[renegadeimp]

Even if it went to court, you could show that he is genuinely remorseful and that a criminal record would severely harm his career. If he has never been in trouble before, you could show he was a person of good character.

 

He might even be offered mediation, or the chance to settle OOC. It might be wise contacting TFL and enquiring if they will settle out of court. A LOT of people on these forums have had success for doing that, as it means that TFL and yourselves do not have to incur costs and waste time going through the court process.

 

The worst thing that would come out of that, is that they say no and still take you to court, which is what is happening anyway.

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

As Martin said, there will be other replies. Hopefully some of our transport guys wil turn up with ideas for you. I can't remember if people have succeeded by sending a second letter, but in any case it would be helpful if the transport people could suggest what your OH could say.

 

I'm not sure if the lawyer has helped or not because from reading this forum, not all of them understand fare evasion cases. From what I've seen, explaining their shortcomings to a rail company rarely goes well.

 

And don't forget that your OH can continue to negotiate right up until the court date if it goes that far.

 

For now though, my suggestion would be that you await the experts from the industry. You can normally tell this if you click on their username [the one in blue at the top left of their posts, mine is orange because I'm site team] to see what their profile says about them.

 

My best, HB

[firstclassx]

First Capital Connect is about the worst operator to fare evade on.

 

If they go for Byelaw 18(1), there is no technicality as far as I can see, as it is a strict liability offence. You're guilty or you're not. No grey areas.

 

You should also note that your partner could also be prosecuted under Byelaw 22(2), so be careful what you say!

 

They could ask, how did you get the ticket, so if you say my wife gave it to me etc, then she could be convicted. If you say you took it without her consent, then it looks like theft...

 

However, to avoid all of the above, FCC tend to favour the Section 5(3a) Regulation of Railways Act 1889, so you need to set about proving that you had no intention to avoid paying the fare... can you honestly say that you didn't try to avoid paying, under oath?

 

Send them a cheque/postal order/bankers draft for a sum between £250 and £500 with a highly apologetic letter. Explain the money attached is to cover their "administrative expenses" in dealing with you. Make sure the letter is sincere and honest.

 

As for a solicitor, dead money really... he can't do anything that you can't do fairly easily yourself. It also tends to wind prosecutors up when they read letters from solicitors who clearly don't know the railway legislation as well as they think.

 

As for the season ticket, I assume it was confiscated? If so, you'll have to fork out for another. It was neither "lost" or "stolen" so you can't get a replacement. (Unless, you did steal it, and your partner etc is willing to back that up!)

Edited September 13, 2012 by firstclassx

[fcc_help_needed]

Thank you for all the advice and opinion.

 

I agree that a letter is the next step, is there anything we should avoid putting in the letter? Eg should we avoid work/criminal record?

 

In relation to taking my ticket - he did so without my knowledge so I was able to get a replacement.

 

Thanks again.

[renegadeimp]

Could simply tell them that you wish to settle out of court to avoid further wasted time and costs. See what they say.

[honeybee13]

Could simply tell them that you wish to settle out of court to avoid further wasted time and costs. See what they say.

 

Hello there.

 

The OP has already written once. I could be wrong, but I think a second letter may need some compelling reasons why FCC should settle.

 

HB

[renegadeimp]

Im just thinking of a few other threads on here, and other forums where it took a couple of letters to get them to "come round".

 

However, it does look like it will go to court anyway.

[firstclassx]

FCC won't go near a court if there is a decent settlement made. They've less than 1 year left on the franchise so it all about boosting THEIR own revenue, revenue, revenue...

Although this may seem unfair, if you didn't commit the crime in the first place....

 

A follow up letter, which is apologetic and sincere and more importantly, has a sizeable cheque attached to cover their administrative troubles, is sufficient.

 

Once a summons is issued, the "settlement" opertunity is still available, although their "administrative troubles" will be a lot more expensive.

[RPI]

The solicitor who advised you to not contact FCC wants shooting, write to FCC offering to pay the fare due plus their reasonable administration cost's, i would say around £150 and see what they say.

[honeybee13]

Thank you firstclassx and RPI for looking in, helpful suggestions.

 

My best, HB

[fcc_help_needed]

Thanks again everyone - we shall try a very apologetic letter and offer of paying costs.

[honeybee13]

Hello again.

 

Please let us know how you get on. Even if it doesn't go the way you hope, there will still be options available to you.

 

My best, HB

[firstclassx]

Thanks again everyone - we shall try a very apologetic letter and offer of paying costs.

 

Don't offer.... GIVE....

 

Send a cheque with any letter. The amount you choose depends on whatever you perceive to be worthwhile, can afford.

[fcc_help_needed]

Hi all- thanks again for the great advice. We sent the letter with a substantial cheque included and FCC replied very quickly accepting the money and the case is now closed.

 

This certainly will never happen again and a major lesson has been learnt. Thank goodness we managed to resolve the situation promptly.

 

Thanks again!

[firstclassx]

Hi all- thanks again for the great advice. We sent the letter with a substantial cheque included and FCC replied very quickly accepting the money and the case is now closed.

 

This certainly will never happen again and a major lesson has been learnt. Thank goodness we managed to resolve the situation promptly.

 

Thanks again!

 

Glad to hear a mutually beneficial agreement was reached. Good luck in the future.

[honeybee13]

Hello again.

 

I'm really pleased it's worked out for you. I'll change your thread title.

 

My best, HB

[MARTIN3030]

Was a very fast conclusion !

[firstclassx]

Was a very fast conclusion !

 

Always better to send a cheque, rather than offer one...

 

Makes things a lot quicker...

[The Urbanite]

Of course they will bite your hand off if you send them £250 - £500. I wouldn't consider that a successful outcome at all. What this forum is doing is filling the pockets of the TOCs and making it less fair on those who may only be able to offer a modest and more reasonable settlement.

[firstclassx]

Of course they will bite your hand off if you send them £250 - £500. I wouldn't consider that a successful outcome at all. What this forum is doing is filling the pockets of the TOCs and making it less fair on those who may only be able to offer a modest and more reasonable settlement.

 

Well, if they don't commit an offence in the first place they won't have to pay anything! TOCs would not be getting any money if passengers didn't break the law and/or followed the ticket conditions, which are easily available, just people don't bother to either seek them out or read them.

 

IMO, this forum is preventing people from getting a criminal record by settling the matter out of court, which is beneficial for either party. It is also beneficial to the rail passengers, because certainly in my company, all revenue from prosecutions/penalty fares is reinvested straight back into the Revenue Protection department. There is no "profit" made, at least not by all TOCs. It also frees up the court's time, to deal with more pressing cases.

 

We could offer advice on how to ATTEMPT to defend the case, but 99% of the queries are indefensible or strict liability matters. The only advice that can usually be given, is how to best mitigate their actions. If the OP in this case had let the matter progress, he would have a summons within a few weeks, followed by a conviction, costs order and fine. If you go on the attack with the TOC, they'll just prosecute you and use any letters you may send to them as evidence of lack of remorse. What advice would you prefer me to have given the OP?

 

Would you rather have a fine of at least £250, to as high as £1000, plus costs, plus a criminal record? Or would you rather just pay the train operating company and avoid the hassle and problems of court?

 

I do agree that the "arrangements" may better suit those with higher incomes, rather than those on a poorer income, (e.g. benefits etc). I guess it's tough really. If you can't do the time and all that.... that said, we rarely go after 75 year old grannies who use their pass before 9.30am... we do consider each case on it's merits, (although that's not to say that 75 year olds haven't been prosecuted - sometimes the older they are, the worse they are!)

Edited September 20, 2012 by firstclassx

[The Urbanite]

The point I'm making is, a settlement offer of £100 is likely to elicit an identical response to that of £500. Therefore, leading desperate people up the garden path isn't something to be at all proud of.