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Yet another Lowel l/ BW LEGAL (Stat Demand/Bankruptcy order). Help please!


Floydian
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Well had the hearing where the judge blasted Lowells for not having the correct paperwork (statement of account/indeed ANYTHING!). I was awarded part costs.

 

The judge however allowed them EVEN MORE TIME to find the paperwork and adjourned the case! This sounds like a small victory but not exactly what I wanted.

 

Any clues if this is terrible?

 

Also the judge claimed SHOP DIRECT could sell the debt even though the account was in serious dispute. The judge acknowledged the case was in serious dispute so I do not know why they allowed them more time to find paperwork from a failed CCA request and SAR. A Stat demand is not for disputed cases I thought. They cannot even show me the statement of account they claimed to have sent me previously (yeah right - where is it then?)

 

The lawyer tried to accost me before the hearing and I told them kindly to wait for the hearing. "OK IF THATS HOW YOU WANT TO PLAY IT" was the response.

 

How can these scumbags do a STAT DEMAND and yet not even have the most basic of paperwork available! (And get given an extension!). They are already in breach of a CCA!

 

All I ever wanted was the correct figure which I would have paid, thats why it was disputed originally towards Shop Direct and there response was to sell it to these ball bags who go THIS route.

 

Please, anyone feel free to comment! I feel a little depressed about it all really.

Edited by Floydian
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Looks like you had a judge that was friendly to DCA's. A bit dubious giving them extra time. Next time you may not get the same judge with a bit of luck.

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It was my understanding that if there was a legitimate dispute in place and triable issues that the Judge should set aside - most of the SDs we see should be part 7 claims and not Stat Demands.. Certainly not give the petitioner more time to get their case together which they should already have done before issuing the SD !

 

I am thinking that Lowells have purchased a lot of duds and this is one way they can railroad them through.

 

Either the debtor panics and pays up.. or Lowells try to bulldoze their way in court.

 

The OFT really need to jump on them.... hard.

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I had a simillar case where the lowell solicitor requested more time to provide the paper work,however the judge give them 4 weeks to submit the paperwork to the court and to myself.Guess what they missed the deadlines.Today, I was at the hearing and lowell solicitor asked the judje withdraw the SD because they can't find the paperwork and requests a strikeout with an order for costs against the claimant.It seems that lowell play the same trick when they dont have the paperwork by asking the court for more time.lowell solicitor is trying to intimidate you in case you bottle out.My advice is to stay put and eventually they will admit defeat.

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Stick to your guns, think about your defence and why you are disputing, at the next hearing you should be pushing hard for the demand to be set aside. So often they cannot produce the paperwork....

PLEASE NOTE - I am not a legal expert, what is stated is my own opinion and from what I have learnt from this forum and my own experiences.

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Yes they came to court with nothing at all. They lied and said they had sent me 20+ letters, notice of default, statement of account yet they couldn't produce this 'statement of account'. (CCA REQUEST), or indeed anything. All this and the debt was a serious and substantiated dispute in great detail (DJ words).

 

Now

 

I have to file a response (with a further court case hearing next year) by the end of the week to these low life maggots yet I have not heard anything back after the adjournment. What should my response be? Is there any reason why I have to file a response before Lowells (they have an extra three days on my response). If the case was adjourned allowing Lowells more time, does that evidence, if they find any, have to be in my possession before my response? It would make a response a little boring if I have nothing new to say at all. Which at the moment I do not.

 

Can lowells appear at the new hearing with new evidence after the time frame given by the DJ? If so I guess it makes a mockery of any time constraints placed on them.

 

Lowells are still in summary criminal offense with my original CCA request (no statement of account, no figures showing what I am alleged to owe) and Shop Direct have had around 60 days and counting to produce my SAR evidence. Lowells are claiming that Shop Direct have the information they need yet my SAR request was in default before they got the adjournment.

 

It just beggars belief how a court can give them more time to find the information they were obliged to have before they initiate court proceedings like a SD!

 

Hammonds (a firm) v Pro-Fit USA Ltd [2007] EWHC 1998 (Ch)

So far as disputed debts are concerned, the practice of the court is not to allow the insolvency regime to be used as a method of debt collection where there is a bona fide and substantial dispute as to the debt. Save in exceptional cases, the court will dismiss a petition based on such a debt (usually with an indemnity costs order against the petitioner).

Help with the response please. You guys are a lifeline, on my own I would have never gone this far.

 

:-D

Edited by Floydian
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I will flag your thread for site team to advise..

 

Can I just point out that there is no longer a "criminal" effect for non compliance of the CCA - that was written out of the regulations around 2007 when the government of the day decided to tinker with the Act !.

 

Agreed, they should have been in possession of the information before they took action. However, they have managed to get away with this many times so until they are stopped, they will continue. Looks like your Judge is giving them a serious battering at the moment.

 

What have you done in respect of Shop Direct being in default of your SAR request ?

 

It is not your problem that Lowells claim that SD have the information they require. They should have made sure all the paperwork was in their possession before issuing the SD in the first place !

 

Did the Judge say they had to provide you with this information before you drafted your response ?

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Thankyou for flagging the thread :-)

 

Did the Judge say they had to provide you with this information before you drafted your response ?
I honestly cannot remember as I was so nervous. I believe so.

 

The case was adjourned allowing them more time is what I do remember. I received this letter shortly (hand typed not photocopied) - xx = redacted.

 

IN BANKRUPCY

 

Before District Judge - name removed

 

On the hearing of an application by the applicant for an order for a statutory demand issued on the xx August be set aside

 

Upon hearing Floydian in person and hearing council for LOWES PORTFOLIO

 

AND UPON HEARING THE EVIDENCE

 

IT IS ORDERED THAT

 

1) The respondent do file and serve a statement in response to the application by 4PM on 17 DECEMBER

2) The Applicant do file and serve any response by 4PM on 14 DECEMBER

3) The matter be re-listed for hearing on the first available date after xx January 2013 with a time estimate of one hour.

4) Costs in the application, save that the respondent shall pay the applicants lost of a days wage for todays hearing assessed at £xx.00 within 14 Days.

Points one and two confuse the hell out of me! If they have until the 17th to file the evidence they should have had first time around how can I be expected to reply to that three days in the past!

 

What have you done in respect of Shop Direct being in default of your SAR request ?
No follow up yet as I didn't want them to hurry up enough to give Lowells an early Christmas present. Should I issue a follow up letter? They are in default by around 30 days (over the 40) Edited by Floydian
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Ooer, that is confusing isnt it..

 

Ok, well you only have 4 days to get your bit into the court..

 

I would most certainly follow up with Shop Direct - Did you send your request by Recorded delivery and do you have proof that they have received the request. Have they cashed the postal order/cheque.

 

You can telephone the post office (if postal order) 08457 22 3344 (option5, I think). Just ask them to confirm if the PO has been cashed and when. If yes, then ask if they can confirm that in writing to you. You will need the receipt that the post office gave you for the ID reference.

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You say - "I have to file a response" - are you sure ? what do you have to respond to ? did they write a witness statement ?

 

I may be wrong but as they didn't provide any response to your witness statement, then they are the ones who have to make the first move, and from there you have to respond to THEIR points.......luckily you had a judge on your side. How can you respond if they turned up at court with no paperwork ?

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As for your SAR, if they haven't responded within 40 calendar days then you send a LETTER BEFORE ACTION enclosing a copy of the original SAR letter, giving them a further 7 days to comply send it recorded delivery.

PLEASE NOTE - I am not a legal expert, what is stated is my own opinion and from what I have learnt from this forum and my own experiences.

 

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I would assume there is an error in that Order

 

N BANKRUPCY

 

Before District Judge - name removed

 

On the hearing of an application by the applicant for an order for a statutory demand issued on the xx August be set aside

 

Upon hearing Floydian in person and hearing council for LOWES PORTFOLIO

 

AND UPON HEARING THE EVIDENCE

 

IT IS ORDERED THAT

 

1) The respondent do file and serve a statement in response to the application by 4PM on 17 DECEMBER

2) The Applicant do file and serve any response by 4PM on 14 DECEMBER

3) The matter be re-listed for hearing on the first available date after xx January 2013 with a time estimate of one hour.

4) Costs in the application, save that the respondent shall pay the applicants lost of a days wage for todays hearing assessed at £xx.00 within 14 Days.

 

Check it with the Court in Question.

 

Andy

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In my case, it is orderred that,1) The creditor shall by 4 pm on the 12/06/12 file with court and send to Mr xxxxx a statment exhibiting all documents upon which they intend to rely in support of the debt.2)The applicant (me) Mr xxxxxx shall by 4 pm 10/07/12 file with the court and send to the creditor a statment in reply.In my case I remember the judge said "to be fair to Mr XXXXXXXX(me),I allowed you 4 weeks to file a response after the creditor deadline," However, the creditor missed the deadline then I informed the court in writting that they defaulted.The respondent asked the court for more time,therefore the applicant (you) should file with court and to the respondent after you receive a statment exhibititing all document.In your case, it does not make sense, because your response date should be issued after the respondent date deadline so you could prepare a new defence. Please can you check the date in the court letter again.

Edited by Noumidia
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  • 1 month later...

The maggots have actually produced some more 'evidence', I used 'produced' deliberately. They had to file this evidence by the 14th December. They were then given ANOTHER extension when they failed to prove anything after the adjournment. This was all to produce a statement of account (which would have been nice from the day they brought the debt). Certainly before they started INSOLVENCY proceedings. How on earth you are supposed to work out what you owe without one is beyond me and to hand one out at THIS STAGE (after the stat demand) is vexatious.

 

They have also asked for costs approaching £900 against me for setting aside the demand. NINE HUNDRED POUND. Thats for asking for an adjournment on the original case, missing the adjournment and then manufacturing a statement of account. The SOA does not show any admin fee's (which there were) or any potential PPI. Nothing other than goods ordered (over a single year, not the whole account) and payments made during the life of the account. (So it appears I paid more than I received!). Its also proof that I missed no payments until I disputed the amount and withheld payments, as I thought was my right, after a reasonable time had elsaped)

 

Lowlifes also claim they pulled this SOA from the archives at shop direct in january however this was not in my SAR from shop direct and indeed I have documented evidence saying that no such statement existed. They have filed this SOA as court evidence.

 

I also thought to have a SOA produced now, for the first time, not before, would be a clear breach of a statute demand? They also put the onus onto me to prove the debt was in dispute. I have printed evidence of this from my SAR.

 

If they had given me a statement of account from day one, settled my dispute, I would have paid the balance. Now its war, now its FSA and FSO and TS and my MP.

 

Or should I just have paid up regardless, any arbitrary figure, especially now they are trying to add around £1000 to the balance?

 

The court seems to be letting them. They are still in default of the CCA request.

 

If a mod wants a laugh I have the SOA

 

CAG I need you. This is not someone trying to escape a debt, this is someone who had a dispute, was ignored and got steamrolled by multiple teams of solicitors.

Edited by Floydian
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I have flagged your thread for assistance.

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I presume you now need to apply a witness statement in answer to what they have provided. The Judge in your first hearing could see that there was a substantial dispute, so go back to that. You can tell the judge that they have obviously lied (and this is part of the beauty of sending a SAR). No details of charges, no details of PPI, any default notice in the prescribed form ? statements ? What they attempt to do is produce weak documentation which says you spent it....we got it assigned to us, now pay up or we destroy you....you will also need to resubmit your costs for the further work you have done...

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Thanks for the reply.

 

It would be easier to tell you what they do not have than what they have. I have never met a more incompetent, lazy, unprofessional outfit than this. They send out hundreds of statute demands and odds on they will occasionally hit someone they really shouldn't have hit - people that will fight their bullyboy tactics and vexatious attitude. I am outraged at their attitude and the content they show for our courts.

 

The original case was adjourned because they wanted to provide paperwork that any other company would have in place before they issued the demand. Unbelievably, although the judge was angry, they were given the adjournment (with a ticking off). That date was December the 14th.

 

Guess what, they broke the court order.

 

Now this is the bit I do not understand. Without asking for more time or given any reason, once I notified the court that they broke the court order I received court documents a few days later telling me that since the respondent has failed to provide evidence they have until the January 28th to file a statement. What on earth is the point of a court order if they can be so easily ignored?

 

I questioned this to the court and they told me to write to the judge telling him they broke the court order. I shall do so, and any help forming the correct words would be appreciated, but I am like WTF!? Just unbelievable.

 

 

 

 

I will post their witness statement and statement of account that was a month late if it helps?

 

(A new court date had already been provided after they broke the court order and before they filed the late witness statement.)

 

*They provided

 

manufactured letters from their three crappy companies, RED, LOWELS and HAMPTONS.

manufactured statement of account from SHOP DIRECT (from information from the SAR they stole from me, provided free from SHOP DIRECT on the 4th January).

manufactured statement of account from LOWELLS (showing no details).

reconstituted (I know, allowed) credit agreement from 2012 (not allowed lol) terms

 

*Did not provide

 

Any Default letters

Any competent solicitor

 

I am pretty sure I have a good case, but I still need help forming these words into my witness statement. I really do not want to mess this up. If anyone can help I would appreciate it!

Edited by Floydian
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As you can see, when challenged they struggle......they are hoping that nobody will challenge.

PLEASE NOTE - I am not a legal expert, what is stated is my own opinion and from what I have learnt from this forum and my own experiences.

 

DEBT COLLECTION LETTER/SAR/AGREEMENT TEMPLATES ARE HERE - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?65-legislation

 

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If it was me then I would be putting the judge's name on it showing that it could apply to anybody......and I would have pressed to see the deed of assignment too to see if it is enforceable under English law (there have been a couple of DCA's who assigned the debts to offhsore companies in the past HFO and Cabot to name a few)

PLEASE NOTE - I am not a legal expert, what is stated is my own opinion and from what I have learnt from this forum and my own experiences.

 

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If it was me I would certainly be pressing the judge to throw out due to non compliance with the orders of the court.....

PLEASE NOTE - I am not a legal expert, what is stated is my own opinion and from what I have learnt from this forum and my own experiences.

 

DEBT COLLECTION LETTER/SAR/AGREEMENT TEMPLATES ARE HERE - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?65-legislation

 

IF WE HAVE BEEN HELPFUL -PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE GIVE A DONATION TO HELP US TO CONTINUE HELPING YOU

 

I AM HAPPY TO RECEIVE PM's AND I WILL RESPOND IF I FEEL I CAN ASSIST BUT WHEN YOU DO CAN YOU PLEASE PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD ON WHICH YOU WOULD LIKE ME TO COMMENT - THANK YOU

 

IMPORTANT - If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.

Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Private message facilities are offered for users to communicate issues that are/or could be seen to be inappropriate for posting on the main forum.Site rules explain this in more detail.

If you are approached by private message with a view to asking you to visit another website,please inform the site team via the report icon.

 

Forum rules - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forum-rules-please-read/9-forum-rules-please-read.html

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