Ariste holding ltd. / Cash Genie emptied account, no warning or authorisation.

[jtaylor23]

Hi, any advice or previous experience greatly appreciated!

 

I have recently had my account emptied by ARISTE HOLDING LTD, which you probably know is a trading name of cash genie. I got paid on 07/09/12 for the first time since March as I have been out of work. I checked my balance on-line at approx 1pm, after using my debit card at a well known and reputable retailer. By 4pm I had £70 available.

 

Now, the cash genie loan I took out was on 14th December 2011 for £180. I paid them £60 on 23/12, but was unable to pay them the remaining balance in January. Also worth noting that at the start of January I lost and so ordered a new debit card meaning cash genie could not possibly have my new card details, right?

 

Anyway in the recent months I have been receiving a lot of e-mails and spoken on the phone to a company called Carter Forbes who I believed were now in "charge" of collecting this debt. I did also have quite a long conversation with them at one point telling them my situation, how I was unemployed, and that I simply couldn't commit to any kind of pay back schedule until I was back in employment. Also that once I was, I would arrange some kind of settlement. They didn't seem to understand this and were extremely keen to get me to sign up to any sort of repayment; I now know why!

 

So the charges they made on Friday were as follows: £200, £193, £100 and £10. There were also a list of about 15 other charges for varying amounts which didn't go through as the bank had stopped my card by that point. I saw this list in person in a branch of my bank (HSBC). An employee of the bank told me I would definitely get the money refunded and even allowed me to withdraw £200 cash over the counter, money which I didn't have available. I have since spoke to the bank over the phone and they say I need to wait for the charges to leave the account before they can look into it further. I am planning to ring them tomorrow morning as the charges now appear on my on-line banking statement.

 

I have read several similar stories on line but none seem to have such a delay from the original loan to the "stealing" of money. Also I don't know how they got my card details or if they even need them? Can they charge with just your account number and sort code? Also are they allowed to charge a different card to the one that I've knowingly supplied them, without first contacting me? Their T's & C's aren't the most transparent. I feel that as long as I can prove that they have acted unlawfully I should be fine. Ultimately what I want is my money back!

 

I would very much appreciate any help and advice on this matter as I am completely lost as to what I should do first. I have no idea exactly what is and isn't allowed and have realised from searching the internet that my bank are not going to just hand me my money back no questions asked. Likewise contacting one of the many associates of Cash Genie seems to be.. pointless.

 

Please let me know if you need any more details about myself or this whole situation.

 

Many thanks,

[dx100uk]

We have been telling people to put a letter into their bank instructing them not to make any payments under any circumstances to these companie

http://whatconsumer.co.uk/visa-debit-chargeback/- it works!

 

banks MUST follow written intructions from their customers !

This fsa guide has now been updated:

 

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/consumer_...ghts_guide.pdf

 

Here's the text:

 

Cancelling a regular

card payment:

 

When you give your credit or debit card

details to a company and authorise

them to take regular payments from

your account, such as for a gym

membership or magazine subscription,

it is known as a ‘recurring transaction’

or ‘continuous payment authority’.

These are often confused with direct

debits, but do not offer the same

guarantee if the amount or date of the

payment changes.

In most cases, regular payments can

be cancelled by telling the company

taking the payments. However, you

have the right to cancel them directly

with your bank or card issuer by telling

it that you have stopped permission for

the payments. Your bank or card issuer

must then stop them – it has no right to

insist that you agree this first with the

company taking the payments.

Be aware, though, that you will still be

responsible for paying any money that

you owe.

see: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?336569-How-to-remove-a-lender-s-continuous-payment-authority(2-Viewing)-nbsp

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/consumerinformation/product_news/banking/know_your_rights/solving/index.shtml

dx

[jtaylor23]

Wow! Thanks for the quick response.

 

I now have some knowledge to back me up when I speak to my bank rather than just swallowing everything they feed me.

 

But if possible can you tell me whether this chargeback process guarantees a refund of my money? Reading through the links it just says they raise a dispute. From

the details I gave before, would you say it is clearly fraudulent activity? From a bank's point of view I mean. Surely they have broken the rules somewhere along the line?

 

Thanks again!

[dx100uk]

go up the command line till you get someone from your bank who

actually knows CHARGEBACK.

 

they should stop/refund all payments immediately

 

and

investigate AFTERWARDS.

 

just keep going up the chain

 

if the person on the phone cannot do it or wont.

 

just continually state

 

'i wish to speak to your supervisor, you are not resolving my complaint in the way it should be done'

 

sadly, very few bank staff ACTUALLY know how chargeback works

 

if all fails

 

contact VISA

 

dx

[jtaylor23]

Ok great!

 

Thanks a lot mate, will post how I get on tomorrow.

[jtaylor23]

Hi and thanks for the advice.

 

After about 40 minutes on the phone and fourth or fifth person I spoke to

I eventually got the entire amount refunded instantly,

which is of course exactly what I wanted.

 

However, the guy who refunded the transactions said they were now to investigate the transaction with the retailer (Cash Genie),

and knowing what they're like I know they will say and do anything to convince the bank they were not in the wrong!

 

He also said something along the lines of:

 

"If you are found to be at fault and theses transactions were authorised we will debit your account for the full amount instantly and without notification".

 

Firstly, is this allowed?

 

Second is there anything I should or can do now to ensure this money doesn't disappear again?

 

I have already cancelled and ordered a new debit card.

 

I mean like going to the police / oft / ofs?

 

Many thanks once again!

[dx100uk]

great result!!

 

you certainly need to inform everone.

 

you re in the right forum

 

just read about CFO you'll get the idea but YES COMPLAIN!!

 

as for the payments etc

 

write to your bank now.

 

expressely forbid them ermission to make any further payments to XXX/XXX

without your written

permission.

 

dx

[renegadeimp]

Time to set up a parachute account and ditch your current bank.

[Louisejane24]

I have just had the same thing happen to me today only I don't owe Cash Genie any money. Ariste Holdings (t/a Cash Genie) have just taken £196 out of my account in 5 different transactions!!

 

NATWEST are point blank refusing to refund me the money and I have to wait until the payments are cleared before they will do anything, they say I need to claim the money through Cash Genie!!

 

What's more, they haven't even advised me to stop my card!! I am fuming and its my daughters birthday today

[Louisejane24]

BE VERY CAREFUL!!

 

I have been dealing with this all afternoon.

 

There is nothing I can do, it turns out that I had an old loan with Paydayiseveryday which was old and unsettled which my partner took out right before we split. I have then applied for a Cash Genie Loan who declined but then took what I owed paydayiseveryday because they are one and the same. Quite clearly states in the small print

 

"7.1 You agree that if you apply for a loan and you already have an outstanding balance with Ariste Holding Ltd or any of its trading names such as Cash Genie, Payday is Everyday or Txt Me Cash, we may collect the outstanding balance from the account you provide in relation to your application before processing that application"

 

Lesson well and truly learnt!

[Nao]

Also worth noting that at the start of January I lost and so ordered a new debit card meaning cash genie could not possibly have my new card details

 

Quite often what happens is when you get a new Card is that the Cardnumber is identical to the old one, only the expiry date and the number on the back changed, as they can charge your card without having the number on the back all they need to do is guess the expiry date which is easy.

 

As Cash Genie could not have possibly used the number on the back and definitely didn't use verified by Visa / 3DSecure not only did you get the money back, but it opens up a whole array of possibilities for the bank to take action against Cash Genie.

[Spiral123]

You did not agree to them taking the money out and they are supposed to inform you of the date when any monies are to be taken. You did not authorise these payments forget the small print demand a chargeback from your bank. I am in a similar position with CFO and am currently fighting it.

 

Well respected caggers will be along shortly to advise you how to go about this. Do not give in, fight it till the death it is your money not theirs to pilfer if and when they want to!

[renegadeimp]

As dx pointed out earlier in this thread, youa re entitled to a full chargeback as the transaction was not authorised. DO not listen to the muppets who man natwests phone lines. Send them a direct letter to the CEO and DEMAND that the chargeback happens, or you will be taking legal action due to Natwest being complicit in fraud or theft.

[jtaylor23]

I'm no expert on this but as I said above I got my money refunded instantly. It took about 40 minutes on the phone but I was just persistent and basically didn't take no for an answer. The last thing I said before they agreed to refund me was something like: "You've got no right to refuse a chargeback and I'm not getting off the phone until this is done".

 

As DX said they HAVE to refund the money! Keep on asking to speak to a supervisor. I don't know if this made a difference but I told them I had been in touch with the FSA and was reading quotes directly from the FSA guide. (Link is in DX's first post, pages 15&16). This appeared to speed things up.

 

The bank have said they are now investigating the charges and if I'm found to be at fault they will debit my account for the full amount without notice. So I will have to wait and see. I never wasted my time ringing Cash Genie and would advise no one else does either!

 

Good luck!

[renegadeimp]

hi JT. This would be a good time to set up a parachute account and have all money transferred there, and your wages paid into the new account. If your bank wants to revoke the chargeback, and place charges, then its their problem.

[jtaylor23]

Hi and thanks, I may just do that. My working hours make it hard to get to a bank during the day which is slowing me down in doing so. Does anyone know the chances of my bank re-charging me for the transaction? Because to be honest I would rather stay with my bank, for now at least. I've been told the investigation can take up to 9 days so after this point I'm assuming it will have been dealt with.

 

In the meantime I have taken almost all my cash out of my bank and will keep doing so until I am certain it's safe in there!

 

Also, do my bank need to notify me if they are to re-charge me? And what would happen if the balance wasn't available?

 

Thanks

[renegadeimp]

Banks can recharge, thats why its important that you now get your finances safeguarded, then start dealing with your ex-bank.

[jtaylor23]

Ok thanks, will try and get to a bank monday morning!

[huxleypig69]

The banks are behaving really, really badly regarding this. As soon as my (ex) bank, Halifax, heard the words 'The Money Shop' they switched off and refused to help in any way whatsoever.

 

I have since been victorious against them and it's going to end up costing them plenty in return but it took a long time and they knew they were in the wrong from day 1. Despite 'exhausting their complaints procedure' and ignoring me etc, etc, etc. They're complete idiots, fight this legalised [causing problems] if they've gone into your account without permission and taken funds that they're not entitled to. It's like the banks are even happy to be party to it all.

[weezypoos]

Almost a week later and Natwest will not refund the payments that Ariste Holdings took from my account. Because I signed an electronic agreement with Cash Genie (as in my post above) I have agreed to them taking monies owed. I just can't believe I have been to naive! I have made 23 phonecalls to Natwest and everyone says that there is no fraud case to answe

[Nao]

Because I signed an electronic agreement with Cash Genie (as in my post above) I have agreed to them taking monies owed

 

While it is true that you signed an agreement with Cash Genie you only agreed to have them take the amount you actually owe on the due date, it does not imply an agreement of you to any other payments.

 

Send a letter demanding a final answer on the matter (make sure to send it recorded signed for), then take it FOS once you have that and they still refuse or after 8 weeks are over if no reply.

[Spiral123]

Weezypoos, I'm in a similar position to you with RBS/Ulster. Check out my thread how to follow it through:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?365005-CFO-drained-my-account-RBS-say-its-allowed-help(4-Viewing)-nbsp

 

I'm afraid it will probably be a drag but keep at it. Aren't Nat West/RBS linked?

[renegadeimp]

Weezypoos, I'm in a similar position to you with RBS/Ulster. Check out my thread how to follow it through:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?365005-CFO-drained-my-account-RBS-say-its-allowed-help(4-Viewing)-nbsp

 

I'm afraid it will probably be a drag but keep at it. Aren't Nat West/RBS linked?

 

Same group of companies.

[08pjf24]

on Monday 20/11/12

i recieved my first benefit payment i have had to give up work because of ill health.

 

I checked my online banking and £75.00 had been taken

 

i called up Natwest and whilst on the phone with a rep another two payments both for £20.00 each they were taken by Ariste Holdings

i said i had never herd of them.

 

Later when i came off the phone i did a google search argh the dreaded Cash Genie

 

rang Natwest again put through to every department twice over.

 

After a few days Retail Disputes say i would have to provide evidence that i did not owe them CG money

and fraud wouldn't touch the case as i have used the company before.

 

I got so angry that i finally emailed Stephen Hester and got a reply not directly from him but from higher up than cs.

 

Does anyone think i have a hope of getting the money back i have stated the FSA rules in my email to him about unauthorised transactions.

 

Im so worried i have now been left with no money

 

Natwest are worse than useless and i did not authorise these payments.

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated

[Jamie Kingston]

absolute waste of time.. CG are the worst, you can read up on the forums. Try threatening to go to the FOS and see what they say.