Housing Benefit and Income Support Overpayment - due in Court next week

[hine moa]

s111A is an either way dishonesty charge so could be heard at Magiistrates or Crown. So if you wanted you could insist on a Crown Court Trial & deny dishonest intentions. When an overpayment is over £25,000 then the magistates have to refer the case to Crown for sentencing. As your intention appears to be pleading Guilty at the earliest opportunity it should stay at Magistrates. However it is unlikely to be done & dusted in a day. The court will usually request a probation report to consider your suitablility for community work - so expect to be bailed for a fast delivery probation report & then return for sentencing. The magistrates will reduce the sentence by 1/3 for an early guilty plea.

 

Thank you sunny jim, I've got a 15 month old son, two other children of 10 and 15 (one has aspergers) my doctor currently thinks I am unfit for work. Do they expect someone with a young child to do community work, I can't afford child care, surely they don't pay for it!

If I don't get the community work what else is there?

I've not spoken to my solicitor, seems I get a half hour before the appointment on the day. I admitted being guilty at my interview, but not knowingly so at the time. I didn't withhold information thinking oh goody I get all this money, I just got into a mess which I still am in, where I am not dealing with life at all. Things were said to me that I don't recall at all, they obviously have records of all this so I am in black and white guilty as hell.

Kind of just wish I could walk away from it all, leave it all behind

[sunny jim]

If probation deem you unsuitable for a community work order I've seen other sentences of suspended jail terms; tagging orders; conditional discharges or fines.

[jadeybags]

Yes suspended sentence probably. Don't forget you can now get a copy of that recording from the IUC seeing as it's going to court. May be best to actually.

[bio]

^^^ You are entitled to obtain a copy of an IUC whether it goes to court or not.

[jadeybags]

^^^ You are entitled to obtain a copy of an IUC whether it goes to court or not.

 

Are you? Our council wont give us a copy until they have decided the next course of action. I couldn't ask for it straight away at the time.

[hine moa]

Are you? Our council wont give us a copy until they have decided the next course of action. I couldn't ask for it straight away at the time.

 

When I got the court papers there was a copy of the Interview under Caution all typed up.

I know you can get a copy at some point after the interview, not sure how long you have to wait before you can apply for it.

[bio]

Yes, you should be given a form detailing how you can obtain a copy of the IUC on whatever media it was recorded on, ie tape or disk. You would be unlikely to be given a transcribed copy - lucky if you are though.

[hine moa]

I got a two year conditional discharge. The debt is already being collected from my benefits at source, there were no further fines and the magistrate told the prosecution they had to cover the costs in this case. Magistrate was horrified that I am still living in fear of ex husband after seven years and along with other things that have happened in the last seven years is not at all surprised that I appeared to have some form of breakdown in 2007 when I stopped dealing with things.

Just relieved it's all over, my solicitor was brilliant, feeling emotionally drained and have a headache that won't go away. I guess it will after some proper food and some sleep tonight.

[honour2012]

glad it all went well for you today put it behind you now and look forward. All the best.

[abc123def]

well done for getting through that, take care now xx

[jadeybags]

Brilliant news. That headache will go once your head registers that you don't need to be so stressed & on tenderhooks constantly. It's a heck of an ordeal you have been through, no doubt about that.

Time to come back down to planet earth. Glad you updated x

[shield-]

does this forever stay in your records?

like if you need a job as such, how does it work? and is the information kept for anyone?

[Stan Lee]

I don't know the ins and outs, but my impression is that this will show up on an enhanced disclosure check (or whatever it is called these days), even when spent. So, you will have to declare this on applications until it is spent, but if you plan on working in a situation where you are working with vulnerable people etc, it will show up.

 

That being said, I have read posts on here with people being upfront with their employers about benefit fraud court visits, and their employers still offering them a job/allowing them to stay in a job. I would not assume that this automatically decreases your employment prospects.

[hine moa]

Thank you everyone.

 

Still feeling like utter crap and there's a good chance it could be in the local paper tomorrow

 

 

I was aware that they were taking money from my housing benefit well before the situation got to court. They've been deducting £10 per week. I have had a letter today stating that:

 

There will be an ongoing deduction of £17.75 against the invoices listed below.

The deductions will be from your normal payments starting with your payment due on or around 15th October 2012 until the overpayment is recovered.

Invoice - £181.70

Invoice - £1039.39

THIS IS BECAUSE YOU WERE SUCCESSFULLY PROSECUTED FOR BENEFIT FRAUD ON 28.09.12

 

I'm already struggling to top up the £100 a month now for the rent with them just deducting the £10 per week!

I fail to see why they can suddenly up the payments because of a prosecution, it's not like I haven't been paying it back already.

[jadeybags]

Fingers crossed it's not in the paper, it's quite random when reporters turn up, do you remember seeing any there at the time? Sometimes they're easy to spot.

[hine moa]

Fingers crossed it's not in the paper, it's quite random when reporters turn up, do you remember seeing any there at the time? Sometimes they're easy to spot.

 

It's in there, apparently they don't go to the court but they just ring up and get a round up of all that happened. So far we'd kept this from my elderly Mum, I've spent the morning on the phone to her telling her what happened.

[bio]

Some Local Authorities like to publicise Fraud cases, and will themselves contact local newspapers advising them of forthcoming cases. Its a good deterrent!

[jadeybags]

It's in there, apparently they don't go to the court but they just ring up and get a round up of all that happened. So far we'd kept this from my elderly Mum, I've spent the morning on the phone to her telling her what happened.

 

Oh no, so sorry to hear that, why do they have to put names! There really should be circumstances where they aren't allowed to do that in my opinion..

[shield-]

it's in there, apparently they don't go to the court but they just ring up and get a round up of all that happened. So far we'd kept this from my elderly mum, i've spent the morning on the phone to her telling her what happened.

 

was it ur local papaer - or the metro??

 

Did anyone recognise and ask you about it?

 

At least it was in the paper just 1 day. Its all over now.

 

Well done

[hine moa]

was it ur local papaer - or the metro??

 

Did anyone recognise and ask you about it?

 

At least it was in the paper just 1 day. Its all over now.

 

Well done

 

A local paper that comes out once a week, not been out much to see anyone yet, got all three kids poorly with a stomach bug.

Chances are not many read it, but on the flip side, chances are many more read it than I realise, who knows hey.

[shield-]

im so glad its all over for you , im still to face the fires. God is my only strength and ofcourse the kind people on here.

 

did they put in detailed information -like the personal problems u had that had you end up in that situation?

[hine moa]

im so glad its all over for you , im still to face the fires. God is my only strength and ofcourse the kind people on here.

 

did they put in detailed information -like the personal problems u had that had you end up in that situation?

 

In the court yes,the solicitor can only say what information you give obviously. I find the whole situation so difficult to portray without being in floods of tears, so I sat and wrote seven pages for her to read, she did so, clarified points of it and then picked out what to use in court. It was harrowing to sit and listen to the facts I had told her, like re-living a bad nightmare for me.

She gave in-depth detail on me being dumped by the roadside at 31 weeks pregnant, the outcome of which was eclampsia one week later and an emergency ceasarian to save the baby, both of us were seriously ill. She went through the years of our marriage pointing out things that happened, how he verbally and emotionally abused me for years. When I plucked up the courage to leave this man and divorce him I thought that was it. She outlined all the times he's been to social services to report me, all the times he's verbally attacked me, his children and members of my family since the divorce. It's this continued harassment of me and me not dealing with how I was feeling that's got me in this mess. Two years after the divorce I had a breakdown and part of me switched off, he still is trying to control and abuse from beyond divorce now and this seemed to anger the magistrate along with the fact I am still physically scared of him.

 

 

Are you waiting to go to Court?

[Lillibelle]

Todays newspapers are tomorrows chip papers..so what if people see it?,,you lived it and you survived when you thought all hope was lost.And everyone has skeletons in their cupboard,yours just happen to have escaped..Take no notice of other peoples opinion hun,concentrate on yourself and your family.

[shield-]

yes on 25th.

 

how long did the whole thing take? e.g 1 hour?

 

how many people where in the room at the time?

 

did they put all that personal information of your abuse and troubles with ex in the paper?

[hine moa]

yes on 25th.

 

how long did the whole thing take? e.g 1 hour?

 

how many people where in the room at the time?

 

did they put all that personal information of your abuse and troubles with ex in the paper?

 

My case was scheduled for 11.30, and I was told to be at Court for 10am to see my solicitor. I turned up on time and then the court failed to notify my solicitor I was there, it was all a bit messy at first! Then the solicitor saw me in a side room, she checked up on all the facts and prepared the defence. She said that the courts were running early and wanted to see us as soon as possible. At a guess the whole thing of speaking to my solicitor and then immediately being called into the Courtroom with the hearing took about an hour in total.

I don't know how the system works really, they seem to have several people in one court room on charges at a time. The list I saw on the wall for my room stated that at 10.45, 10 people were up before the magistrates, then at my time of 11.30 there were two names, mine and another chap.

On the morning when I saw my solicitor she explained that my charge had been changed anyway from a 111(1a) to a 112, which meant little to me the state I was in, I think she mentioned the words 'down graded' but I'm not sure. I'm not sure if they bunch people altogether on the same charge or not, but be prepared to have to sit through other peoples. Luckily for me I was first up and the other guy had to sit through mine.

Once I went into the court room I was told to enter the door to go into the dock, a glass room, so be prepared to feel like a really dangerous criminal. The door was locked and I couldn't get in!! I wasn't sure at this point whether to laugh or cry! Anyway the magistrate told me to stay where I was and then when they'd finished the first part of the proceedings I was allowed to sit in front the dock.

The prosecution put forward their ramblings, there were three of them so be prepared for that too, although only one spoke.

Then my solicitor put forward the defence. I pleaded guilty from the outset, even back in the IUC, I pleaded that I accepted that I had received an over payment but I hadn't done it deliberately, ie I didn't intentionally set out to receive more benefits than I should have it was illness that caused me to become unable to cope with day to day life.

Once my solicitor had thoroughly outlined all that happened to me the three magistrates shuffled lots of bits of paper around holding them up to one another and nodding and then they passed sentence.

 

I don't mean to upset you with any of the above, just to forewarn you of what happens, forewarned is forearmed and all that! I had no clue what to expect on the day at all. When the guy that was after me came into the courtroom we were already started and I spotted him coming in with a lady who was probably his wife but I went into an almost melt down thinking it was the press lol

 

And no, not all the details were in the paper, just the amount overpaid and the outcome.

Hope I've not worried you any further, I'd hate to do that, I remember well the awful impending doom in the weeks before hand, it's hell and I'd not wish it on anyone. Be strong, hugs and good luck to you xx