Barclays Bank charges, amended particulars Court claim refused

[boxer64]

Hi everyone i had a stayed court claim with barclays, made application to amend particulars of claim using "New Arguments", unfortunately this application was refused didn't present the arguments well enough and Barclays counsel were awarded cost of approx £900, which was reduced from £2500 by the judge who was not happy to refuse my application, and suggested in not so many words that i could still present my case differently.

 

the details of my particular case is that i had a Woolwich account that Barclays subsequently took over,implimenting the new aleged over draft service, the account became overdrawn by approx £5, because of a Woolwich not a Barclays cheque for approx £10. the rolling charges to date are aprox £500. and they have registered default notices with credit reference agencies. if they had refused the cheque, the charge would have been £5

 

At the Court hearing Barclys offered to cancel the charges if i drop the case, i refused this offer as they would not remove the mentioned default notices with credit reference agencies.

 

they continue to make this offer, while threatening further action i believe i have a very good case just not able to present it.

all help and suggestions would be great full

[BankFodder]

Can you give us some idea of the dates of the charges, the date of the claim, the date of the stay.

Ta

[boxer64]

thanks for your response, i have a case with Halifax that was an application to amend particulars of claim,

this case with Barclays was a fresh application using the new arguments,

 

as mentioned I had Woolwich account that Barclays took over,

 

• the Barclays account was opened 9th July 2007, with a positive balance in the thousands
  

 

• I became unemployed in December 2007 --May 2008, again from Nov 2008 -- Jan 2009, finally July 2009 to date.
  

 

• the charges started 29th May 2008 for £30 detailed as paid referal fee
  

 

• the account was debited without my knowledge or authorisation on 22 Jan 2008 and 12 march 2008 totaling £105 (subesquentially found to be payments taken for a delinquent BarclyCard Account)another story!.
  

i would dispute and complain about these charges shortly after this, and one of their first documented responses was dated 10th November 2008

the charges would roll on at a rate of £22 every five working days detailed as reserve usage fee (another name for overdraft fee) to date totalling approx £455

 

• they informed me the account facilities were withdrawn 31 December 2008
  
• 
  
• they closed the account 22 Jan 2009
  
• Default notices and Debt collection letters followed
  

 

• court application 28 September 2011
  
  
• court hearing 6 July 2012 Case Ref 1IR84024
  
  

a point i should make is that Barclays told the courts that the business have what the call a "Unilateral Agreement" which i understand to mean that they do not have to individually negotiate terms of contract with individual customers, and if you do not opt out, you held liable.

AGAIN all help and suggestions would be great full

[BankFodder]

First of all I should tell you that claims for charges which were levied before Nov 2009 are most likley not recoverable as a result of the charges Test Case. You would have to prove that the charges were caused by soe wrongful behavious by the bank. Although it is clear that all charges are unfair at their present rate, you don't seem to have pinpointed any wrongdoing by the bank.

If you have charges which were incurred after 1st Nov 2009 then you could consider a claim but you will have to tell us if any of your charges qualify.

 

The Barclays "reserve usage" fee is a con - but you can opt out of it.

Did you opt out?

[boxer64]

the charges started 29th May 2008 for £30 detailed as paid referral fee, and they closed the account 22 Jan 2009 so none of the charges would qualify.

 

I believe the wrongful behaviour by the bank is firstly that they replaced My original Basic Woolwich account with a different type of Barclays account which i had not expected requested or required. I was not aware of any opt out requirements, until after the charges were made, and even when I requested to opt out they said it was two late

 

the second wrongful behaviour by Barclay is as mentioned before is that prior to the charges, the account was debited without giving any notice and without my authorisation on 22 Jan 2008 and 12 march 2008 totaling £105 (subesquentially found to be payments taken for a disputed BarclyCard Account) these were detailed as Bill Payments,

the fact is that i had Not set-up, authorised or requested any Direct debits, standing orders, Bill Payments, Card payments etc, on this account. Not Even on the old Woolwich account.

So again if these amounts were not taken from the account there would have been funds in the account, and i would not have incurred these charges, quite frankly they have not acted in my best interests, and the phrase Sever detriment comes to mind.

i mentined the term "Unilateral Agreement" which i understand to mean that they do not have to individually negotiate terms of contract with individual customers, and if you do not opt out, you held liable.

[slick132]

Hi Boxer.

 

Two points:-

 

1. In your first post, you say the bank's legal rep said they'd cancel all the charges if you drop the court claim although the Default would likely remain on your CRA records. This should not be dismissed out of hand.

 

If you turn down the offer, this could well work against you if you DO take any further action, as regards the Defendant's costs incurred as a result of your ongoing claim.

 

2. Have you considered using the FOS to complain that the charges incurred are totally disproportionate to the account transgression(s). This would relate more to the original £5 overdraft than charges incurred as a result of a Set-Off to pay the delinquent Barclaycard a/c.

 

Edited September 6, 2012 by slick132
Reworded No 1 above so clearer to understand

[boxer64]

hi slick,

based on Barclays behaviour i had the feeling that their offer wouldn't be in my best interest particularly as they would not agree to remove the CRA entries.

i have other Ombudsman complaints involving other financial institutions, but i found the county court route is faster as this Barclay claim was made after all my ombudsman complaints which are still pending.

i'm under the impression that my case may come under the what i think is the Banking Business Code of Conduct,

 

Funnily enough The Delinquent Barclay Card Account no longer appears on any CRA reports, this may be due to statutory limitations, where entries are removed after a certain amount of years.

 

to me my claim is that in the first instances of the account being debited of UN-notified, and unexpected amounts, and misleading documented as bill payments, this considering the fact had Not set-up, authorised or requested any Bill Payments,Direct debits, etc. on this account. or the old Woolwich account. "a bit of misrepresentation the ere" these amounts were also taken in relation to an already officially disputed acount

 

The Transaction that lead to the the account going overdrawn by £5, and the account charged and debeted £30 the following day Does Not even relate to the same Barcly acount and would not have come under any of their terms and conditions that relate to the acount.

additionally in there own terms, they state that if an item is returned unpaid a charge of £8 somebody is worse of i feel.

 

the have made Default Entries With CRA's, while again the referenced account is in dispute, which basicaly Blacklists me.

 

then finally they close the account with no conclusin other than passing the alledged debt to debt collection agencies.

all this done without taking in to account, or responsibility of their obligations to me as a customer, and leving me in a far more detramental finacil position prior to their charges.

[slick132]

Hi Boxer,

 

I've reworded Item 1 of my post #6 above to make my view clearer.

 

Because of the dates when this all happened, you can't rely on BCOB's - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/announcement.php?f=76&a=220

 

You refer above to a credit card account(s) being in dispute, so the bank should not have taken or set-off money to pay it. Was there just one credit card a/c and why was it "In Dispute" ?

 

[boxer64]

Hi slick,

I had a student BaclyCard From 1997, which was upgraded to to gold card about 2003, made some initial mistake of making lump-sum payments every couple of months instead of making minimum monthly payments, this was resolved and i even cleared the balance of nearly £1500.

 

when out of the blue, from my recollection in September 06 i was unable to withdraw cash from any ATM, at the time I thought there was problems with the machines, but after calling Baclycard i was informed that they had withdrawn my facility to get cash from any UK ATM, giving no reason, when i challenged them at the time that i had not been informed or given any advanced warning, i was told quite lieraly that i should check terms and conditiones, where i will see they can make any changes at any time without any notice.

 

the following is an extract fromof a letter form them dated 21 Nov 2006:

 

Your UK Cash Advance Facility has been withdrawn

As a responsible lender Barclaycard aims to prevent customers borrowing more than they can afford to repay. We monitor our customer accounts and may suspend a customer’s right to use their card for cash withdrawals at any time, as stated in condition 2.6 of the Terms and Conditions.

After a review of your account, we have withdrawn your UK cash facility and this will not be available to you for a minimum of six months. Although you are no longer eligible to withdraw cash within the UK you may still be able to withdraw cash outside the UK.

We have made this decision based on one of the following reasons:

You have recently breached the Terms and Conditions

You have had a recent credit limit decrease on your Barclaycard Your credit limit is less than £500

Based on your usage of the card (e.g.excessive cash utilisation)

If you would like to discuss the details of this letter, please call 0870 154 0154.

For your convenience, advisors are available 24 hours, seven days a week.

And a futher letter dated 12th January 2007 :

 

Your new credit limit

As a responsible lender, we conduct regular reviews of our accounts to ensure the amount we lend is in line with our customer’s ability to pay. We’ve noticed that you have fallen behind with a payment on your account and therefore your credit limit has been reduced to the amount shown above. We have made this decision taking into account all financial information available to us, not solely because you have missed ONE PAYMENT.

 

 

Your UK cash facility has been withdrawn

In addition to reducing your credit limit, we have also withdrawn your UK cash facility and this will not be available to you for a minimum of six months. Although you are no longer eligible to withdraw cash in the UK, you may still be able to withdraw cash outside the UK.

 

 

Request for payment

We would like you to continue to enjoy the benefits of your Barclaycard and to do this you will need to put your account back in order. Therefore, if you haven’t already done so, please make a payment as soon as possible.

So the account became disputed as the would give me NO specific legitimate reason for sanctioning the Account , and my request to reinstate the Acount to its original status, which the refused this i would follow with DATA PROTECTION NOTICES, & SAR Notices, and a Refund of Charges

Complaint, agin funly enough they did credit the account for the charges complait But would refuse to reinstate the account.

 

as i mentioned before i have a few complaints with a few financial inc's where the particulars of a complaint have a knook on effect to each other. if that makes sense.

you mentiond that can't rely on BCOB' due to certain timings but this was superseded by another code of conduct for banks which could make my grievances more pertinent

[slick132]

Hi Boxer,

 

You may not agree with the banks' decisions to stop cash withdrawal facilities and to reduce your credit limit but that does not necessarily put the a/c into dispute.

 

When BC raided your bank a/c to take payments in January and March 2008, was you bank a/c in credit before and after each Set Off payment to BC.

 

Or did the Set Offs either make you overdrawn or increase an existing o/draft.

 

Was there an o/draft limit at the time and did the Set Offs take you beyond any o/draft limit.

 

My feeling is that you should drop the court claim before it lands you with even more costs. Your case does not look clear enough to take forward safely and win. And, as I said before, their offer to refund the charges in full will actually work against you if you DO decide to continue with court action.

 

[boxer64]

hi slick,

thanks again for all of your feedback and info, which has given me plenty of food for thought, ive been dealing with some parking tickets, thats why i haven't responded to your last post,

basically i will wait for the banks to persu me for their costs, as i will still be in this precarias financail posision, either way, and further review the position of these claims.

[jjandbump]

OMG you are in exactly the same situation as me, i have to go to court tommrrow as they are saing that they want judgement set aside, even thought i sent letters all the way through they knew fully about the case, it was even faxed over!! i am furious with them they have no respect at all, keep us informed.