Questions about disability

[goboy]

What questions can a line manager asked a disable person about health problems. Manager sent letter to the disabled person home saying that he is concerned about about absence and current health. Absence could only relate to hospital appointments and holiday leave has been taken when these appointments falls on working days.

 

The disabled person knows that the company wants rid of him and is worry that they may come up with some way of getting rid of him.

 

Any ideas on what the needs to tell this manager about his health/disability which they know about for many years.

[Emmzzi]

The person needs to talk only about impact/potential impact on work activities and reasonable adjustments. Is this your aunt, from memory? You may do better to link to the original thread which had more information.

 

I would always say "I'll be happy to discuss with Occ Health and they can do you a full report." Because manager is not a doctor or nurse. And it costs the company money to do it.

[lbruk]

I would say they can ask anything, but you only have to answer certain things.

 

They do not need the full medical diagnosis of the disability, as this would mean nothing to them. But they do need to know how and why it would effect certain areas of their work. What you can and cannot do and to work together to resolve the problems.

[goboy]

Thanks Emmzzi and Ibruk, yes it is about a relative of mine the manager already knows about the ongoing conditions, after years and a lot of stress they eventually got the small bit of equipment that was recommendation by A2W. Work has not been a problem since they equipment and changes has been made but they still want to get rid of the employee. I will advise what Emmzzi said for them to recommend to their OH as if it costs money they will not be willing to pay for it so that will be a no, no. It would have a dreadful impact on the employee if the decided not to keep the current changes that has been made.

[goboy]

My relative has agreement with company and acas for outstanding pay and this is due to expire next on the pay day in September. The day before the meeting with manager for health matters, my relative was told by admin that there was cash waiting for him in a safe and would he go and get it with another colleague from a safe when a brown pay packet came out of the safe and my relative was asked to sign for it. He looked at the pay packet and it had cash inside and some of the money covered part of the agreement with acas, it immediately refused by my relative on that basis.

I feel that this was a set up by the company and unethical of them, I also feel that it would have let the company off without paying the full amount of what was agreed with acas and maybe a sacking as well.

 

The meeting took a different turn due to the refusal of the money that was offer the previous day.

 

After the first ET1 for deductions in pay was settled by acas, but not yet paid by the company it will be in 2 weeks time, the following month they made more deductions in pay that was not included in the first ET1, which will mean another ET1 will have to go in. The manager is refusing to make the payment and asked to wait for the outcome of the appeal to the findings of the grievance that was made by my relative, but that will make the time limit too late for the ET1. The company is so sneaky for such a large one as well.

Edited August 25, 2012 by goboy

[postggj]

as advised, the employer needs to be sending you to an occupational health advisor for them to do a full report. in your case, part of that report will be in consultation with your GP.

 

do not be to hard on your employer

 

they need to know what your limitations are as they have a legal obligation under the Management of Health and Safety at Work Act 1999 for your welfare

 

BUT YOUR LINE MANAGER HAS NO AUTHORITY TO KNOW WHAT YOUR MEDICAL CONDITION IS

 

that will be between yourself, the occupational health provider doing the report, and your employer (HR) if you CONSENT to that report being released

[Emmzzi]

goboy, was there a supplementary question in there? looks like your relative has their number already.

[goboy]

goboy, was there a supplementary question in there? looks like your relative has their number already.

Yes, you are correct Emmzzi, the company is something else. The manager was told at the meeting that professional help would be sough about the existing outstanding payments of hundreds of pounds, but I think it would be prudent to wait until the first agreement payment that is going through acas is paid first and then put in for the second lot of outstanding payments as there is still time, but he does not want to wait too long as he is under a lot of pressure due to shortage of money.

 

My relative asked by way of letter if the money that was presented to him from the safe was for the second amount that is still owing to him, but was told 'no' it was the agreement money with acas, which the manager and the HR manager (HR manager is leaving the company) said at the meeting that they did not know anything about the money in the safe. but someone in the company must has known that it was put there as a trap for my relative.

 

southernjessy, the company knows the limitations for my relative as they were provided with all the medical records due to ET hearing in earlier in the year, but the manager sent a consent form prior to the hearing for him to be sent to OH but nothing came of it. At the meeting the manager told my relative that she would talk to OH on his behalf and let him know the outcome. Manager seems to know all the medical health details of my relative, nothing kept confidential and is spread throughout the company with colleagues. No professionalism in that company whatsoever, it is all about money and if employee cost them money they will be go rid of. To think they are always advertising that they do charity work, what a laugh.

 

The company does not want disable people working in the company well at least ones they cannot exploit and seems to punished them for becoming disabled as well.

Edited August 26, 2012 by goboy

[Emmzzi]

Still not clear what your question is?

[goboy]

Hi Emmzzi, I should have been more concise with my post.

 

Is there anything he can do about that the money been offered to him therefore breaking the acas agreement.

Should he put in an ET1 again for the outstanding wages, he has another 5 weeks until the ET1 time limit expires. He took phased back to work on the instruction of manager and the company policy says it would be paid and the manager also said it would be paid but she changed her mind about it and now says it will not be paid. When he went back to work after the company finally got A2W equipment he was told that post he would be doing would be temporary. At meeting recently he was told that he would be in that office now permanent with other duties involved as well.

 

On his returned to work he was put in a small office temporary and the desk was not suitable for him and as manager waited two year to get the equipment after A2W did the fitting for him that is also not suitable now, but he decided not to complain as he was initially told the post was temporary. Now that it is permanent should he ask for more adjustments to be done as he need them.

 

There was damage done to the equipment that he got from A2W, other staff was using the equipment in his absence and the setting that was done for him went up the creek. There is stain on the equipment and at the meeting recently the manager asked him if he knew about it and she also said she knows he has a bladder problems. He was very embarrassed about been asked this question at the meeting with another female staff there taking notes. He said he may have contributed to it due to his weak bladder. He told me that if he had leaked in anyway on the chair it would have been very little and the stain looks very big and he covers it up with paper tissue, he feels that other some of the other staff in the office made worse.

 

The long term staff of 20 to 30 years and have shares in the company given to them free by the company are in the cohorts with the manager in trying to make him leave his job. The manager said at the meeting that she would speak to their OH on his behalf and advise him. Would this be a break of his confidentiality regarding his health if the manager dose this, also would is she allowed to do this as it is his personal medical details.

 

Should he now apply again for the other equipment that he needs though A2W, he does not want to rock the boat as yet until he get the outstanding pay that is owed to him. He does not feel he has the energy to go through all that again with A2W equipment as it took the manager two years to get the very small bit of equipment he needed to help him return to work.

Edited August 27, 2012 by goboy

[Emmzzi]

why would he do anything about the money? it was offered and refused, it's like it never happened. let that one go.

 

if in doubt put in an ET, it can always be withdrawn.

 

re equipment; yes ask for a reassessment. I assume you mean a special chair/ desk set up. It is much easier if you just say what things are, it makes it easier to follow.

 

Let the other niggles go, they are trivial. the view about the other staff may be paranoia or may be a result of them being fed up with what they see as whinging.

 

Go back to the doctor f a weak bladder is causing leakage. You can get medication/ pads/ catheterized depending on the extremity.

 

re: changes in job role - if they are not physical I would just get on with them and stop moaning.

 

Yes work can talk to Occ Health to get clarity on the report.

[goboy]

The manager called him into a meeting a couple of days ago and said that staff members have complaining about his performance and about him taking to staff while on the phone. The manager did not say what members of staff made the complaints only it was reported on a number of occasions.

 

Can he ask who has made the complaints before he goes any further with another grievance to his employer. It was an informal meeting and he put forward a lot of things that needed to be address first and one of them was him going to the washroom and employees calling him out of there to cover for a lunch break for employee. He has a bladder problem and prostate cancer and sometimes he need to wash well and change his underclothing, but the horrible employees do not care they only want harass him.

 

He got the result of the first grievance results back from the employer and they promised to pay the outstanding salary but no time scale but can he trust them as they may be buying time so he would take him pass the time for ET1 to be put in.

 

He feel not that they are out to get rid of him on capabilities grounds and the manager has said that to him a while ago.

[Emmzzi]

Well this is new information.

 

he's being short (I assume) with people on the phone

he isn't pulling his weight in the team

he needs extended breaks to the extent that people are calling him back for break cover

 

There are reasonable adjustments, and there is being genuinely too ill to do your job.

 

I would be keeping my head down, doing the best job I could, and knocking the grievances on the head.

 

You must do as you see fit, however.

[goboy]

Well this is new information.

 

he's being short (I assume) with people on the phone

he isn't pulling his weight in the team

he needs extended breaks to the extent that people are calling him back for break cover

 

There are reasonable adjustments, and there is being genuinely too ill to do your job.

 

I would be keeping my head down, doing the best job I could, and knocking the grievances on the head.

 

You must do as you see fit, however.

 

Why do you assume that he short with people on the phone and not pulling his weight in the team, this is far from the through.

 

He is a gentle person and very conscientious, he would never be short with people on the phone and nowhere have I said this. He is often left on his own to dealing with his own work and the work of 2 others that are either in another part of the building taking to other member of staff. His co-workers do not want to be in the same office as him so they just leave and do not say where they are going and he does not when they will be back and he is left to get on with it. He has to leave his workstation without anyone to take over and take calls, he does not like doing this, but he has no choice as he has to take his medication and use the washroom and when that happens the office is left unattended

 

He needs to use the washroom more frequently than other staff to take his medications and to use the toilet due to his disability. He was in the loo a couple of weeks ago when an admin person came into the washroom and shouted out his name and said to get back to his workstation as a temporary employee wanted to go on a lunch break.

 

Later that day he was called into the manager office and she told him that employee have made complaints about him and this was for asking them questions when they were on the phone, which he does not do. Manager would not say which members of staff made the complaints and he feels that he should know who has been making up these lies about him but the manager would not say who it was.

 

He is keeping his head down and doing a lot more than others in the office are doing (as his co-workers leave the office for long periods) but it seems they are not happy with that and are looking at ways to get rid of him without any repercussion for them. The company does not like it when employees puts in grievance and the especially do not like it when there is an ET claim looming again and they are certainly are not disable friendly.

 

He has now been told that he will be getting the backdated pay that the company owes him as they do not want to be taken to ET again for unpaid wages. He is now worried that the company will not keep to what they have agreed to in writing. He is especially worried after what had happened when they were trying to give him money that is already under agreement with ACAS.

 

Should he not stand up for himself and let his employer made deductions from his wages and not say anything about it and let it continue just to stay in a job that the employer has no respect for him as a person, I think not...

Edited September 3, 2012 by goboy

[Emmzzi]

You know an awful lot for someone who isn't working in the same office as him!

 

As your comments are based on what this person tells you of course you only have one point of view.

 

At some point you have to stop "sticking up for yourself." And get on with living. Yes, I would think I already had enough of a reputation as a trouble maker, and I would keep my head down. As a principal one grievance a year is MORE than enough.... everything minor should be a conversation!

 

Of course the real solution is to change job. If friend thinks they will not be able to get a new job or keep a new job with their disability it's all the more reason to keep the head down and do what is possiblle to hang on to this one. (Spoken as a disabled person).

[goboy]

 

You know an awful lot for someone who isn't working in the same office as him!

 

As your comments are based on what this person tells you of course you only have one point of view.

 

At some point you have to stop "sticking up for yourself." And get on with living. Yes, I would think I already had enough of a reputation as a trouble maker, and I would keep my head down. As a principal one grievance a year is MORE than enough.... everything minor should be a conversation!

 

Of course the real solution is to change job. If friend thinks they will not be able to get a new job or keep a new job with their disability it's all the more reason to keep the head down and do what is possiblle to hang on to this one. (Spoken as a disabled person).

I am not working in the same office but am working in the same firm and know a lot of what goes on there. Yes, the companies do employ members of the same family i.e. brother, sisters, aunt and uncle as it is a very large employer.

 

Some managers do not follow the companies own policy about making adjustments for disable employees and also demonstrate very little respect for employee they are managing. He would have lost thousands by in salary because the manager was not observing the company own policy let alone the law. He would also have lost lots of holiday entitlements as well if I did not take an interest in him.

 

Nowhere have I posted that he thinks he will not be able to get a new job or keep a new job with his disabilities, why are you posting your unhelpful assumptions.

 

Just to get this clear, as a disable person yourself you are saying that he should not take issue with his employer taking thousand off his salary and taking his holiday leave away from him, he should keep his head down (btw, he disablement is due to his head being down permanent and there is nothing he can do about it) and let the managers and employees ride rough shot over him. I see this happening every day at how the company acts towards disable people and it is not correct. The company policies is hidden and not in the staff handbook and not widely known by the staff in the company. In your eyes, he should just accept what is dish out to him and be very grateful he is in employment as he would be incapable in keeping a job. You sound like the people in the company that we work in as you seem to have the same views that the managers have adopted, which is not lawful or helpful at all.

 

Also employees can put in as many grievance as they want to within a year and indeed he has been told this by professional advisers. This should be done before any ET1 is submitted.

 

I will not post anymore on this matter as employers are on websites looking at way to get rid of staff.

[Emmzzi]

You are of course free to ignore my opinions. They are only opinions. I don't think there is anything wrong in demonstrating how the employer may be viewing the situation.

 

I also think that someone with the issues you are describing would be lucky to make it through probation in a new job. Not that a new employer would say that was WHY they were failing probation - they are not daft. But they'd look at the extended toiler breaks, the chair soiling, and think "you know, I could get someone more efficient in. I'll just say they aren't picking the job up quick enough, and let them go."

 

Yes, this is probably illegal. But you wonlt get any evidence to prove it from a savvy employer.

 

So yes, damn sure I would be keeping my head down and doing whatever i could to keep THIS job. There is legally right, morally right, and pragmatic. They are very rarely all the same thing.

 

He has already been old he will get the backdated pay. That's done and dusted and dealt with. I assumed this latest complaint was about people making compliants about him. No, I would not take out a greivance! I'd look at my behaviour and try and change it - like an adult!

[goboy]

Hold on the chair soiling is not down to him other member of staff use his chair when he is not using it. But he has to take the wrap for it as due to his disability. His ‘extended toilet breaks’ are far less than other staff leaving the office to have a chit chat with colleagues and less than women with bad period days. Now he is basically being told not to speak to any of the staff in the office, which he can cope with as some of them are very nasty indeed.

 

I could get someone more efficient in. I'll just say they aren't picking the job up quick enough, and let them go."

That is what they are using now to get rid of him as it is a new job he has been put in and he has been doing very well all they can do is nit-picking .

 

There is a young temporary member of staff and they want her to have his post. Lies are being told by the employees in his office to move him out of the door with his manager’s help.

 

Other able-body colleagues do not want in their office and making up lies about him talking to them while they are on the phone.

How can he trust his employer about the backdated pay considering what has happened with his agreement with acas they maybe biding their time for the time limited to pass for ET1 to be submitted? They are very sneaky like that.

 

I have advised him to leave the place as who would want to work in conditions like that especially if you are coping with disabilities. He is not stupid and knows what is going on and no job is worth damaging your health for no matter what the employment/economy is like in today. He said that he will decide what to do soon as he is got very depressed about the whole situation.

[Emmzzi]

His ‘extended toilet breaks’ are far less than other staff leaving the office to have a chit chat with colleagues and less than women with bad period days.

 

Ok, and with that, I'm out.

 

I've given all the advice I have and not only are you determined to ignore it, only see one point of view (your own) and hark back to matters that have been dealt with, you're apparently keeping a menstrual calander of the female staff. God knows what you think is involved in a "bad period day" that takes along time in the bathroom!

 

Creepy.

 

Good luck, I hope you find a sympathetic ear elsewhere!

[goboy]

Ok, and with that, I'm out.

 

I've given all the advice I have and not only are you determined to ignore it, only see one point of view (your own) and hark back to matters that have been dealt with, you're apparently keeping a menstrual calander of the female staff. God knows what you think is involved in a "bad period day" that takes along time in the bathroom!

 

Creepy.

 

Good luck, I hope you find a sympathetic ear elsewhere!

 

I do appreciate all your advice, but again do not assume that I am a male I maybe a female. People do not want to be identified on open forums where employers maybe looking at as well....

[Emmzzi]

You may be male female hemaphrodite or trans, I don't really care.

 

I am however fed up of your guessing games and wind ups.

 

Advise your relative to go to ACAS or the CAB for advice instead of getting it 3rd hand.

 

Bye!

[goboy]

You do not have to answer anyone posts and my posts are not a wind up, I will be upset if you do not answer any more of my posts.

[lbruk]

Don't really understand what has happened here. What question do you actually want answered as I'm confused about the argument above.

[assisted blonde]

Having read this post a couple of times I think that the underlying issue is that the employee is not happy in his job for a number of reasons and it would seem that the OP is giving him advice as to how to deal with this, however there comes a time when rights,wrongs, disabilities, hand books etc have all been looked at and very simply the person dosnt like his job, the other office staff dont like him (there is no law that I know of that says you have to like who you work with) and the whole situation seems to have disintegrated.

 

On that basis my advice is stop putting in complaints get on with your work forget the law for 5 minutes and let common sense take over. The situation is not going to get any better and IMO will only disintegtare further, get the money that is owing and leave is the best answer in my mind.

 

 

As for soiled seats I dont care who dirtied it all i know is I wouldnt sit on it and if the other staff feel that it is this person who has caused the problem I am not so sure i would be tolerent of the situation and would be looking at ways to get them moved to another dept or at least not working with me, yes not politically correct I know but an honest opinion.

Edited September 4, 2012 by citizenB
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[goboy]

Is this harassment or victimization, A2W equipment settings are been changed each morning and he has to reset them again, which he find distressing.

 

Manager is concerned when other staff are not supported during the busiest times at work but does not mind him been left alone during this time. He has been followed to the loo by staff and shouted at to get back to desk.

 

Deadline has passed for his agreement payment with acas and no money has paid to him, it is now a week late, he is concern now that if he chases that money now he will be more victimized/harass by manager and staff.