Unfair deposit deductions for a small damage

[yklondon]

Hi all,

 

I would like to get some advice on the unfair deduction of my deposit with a previous landlord.

 

I stayed in a flat(moved out 2 weeks ago) with a live-in private landlord where we had a casual contract signed and exchanged. When discussing of the deposit return, he claims me for the professional cleaning for my room, bathroom, living room and the kitchen which was quoted around £200 though the room was not professionally cleaned by the previous tenant, and for the small hole(2cm diameter) accidentally made by me using candles, he is going to re-install a new carpet which would cost £600.

therefore it is most likely that the deposit would not be back in a big sum.

it is true that the landlord has put " tenant is responsible for hiring a professional cleaner to professionally clean the room, the bathroom, the common area and shampooing the carpet at the end of the tenancy" in the contract, but I find it unjust and would like to take actions to this.

 

Is it possible to sue the landlord based on the above information?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

 

Thanks all in advance.

[mariner51]

Before you head to Court, you need LL to provide detailed estimates for proposed deposit deductions.

Did LL share bathroom, living room & kitchen?

2cm hole in your room carpet is def T damage from using candles.

Whether LL can claim for full replacement cost may depend on age of carpet and position of the burn.

[yklondon]

Thanks for the post.

 

OK. the carpet was kind of new, they replaced it last year. but does the 2cm hole make it justifiable to replace the whole room?

[yklondon]

P.S. I had my en-suite, but shared kitchen and living room. so I am sure I can say that we share the bills in the common area?

[yklondon]

I have heard from my friend that if my landlord is not in the "deposit protection scheme", it is illegal to even keep my deposite for the first place and we can sue him based on that, any ideas about this all?

[LaughingGirl]

From the shelter website:

 

Compensation rights after your tenancy has ended

 

A court may order a landlord to pay compensation to their tenant or former tenant if the landlord didn't protect a tenancy deposit or protected a tenancy late.

 

A court can order a landlord to pay compensation of 1 to 3 times the value of the deposit even if your tenancy has ended:

 

for deposits paid on or after 6th April 2012

for deposits paid between 6 April 2007 and 6 April 2012 – if the tenancy ended after 6 April 2012

For deposits paid on tenancies that ended before 6 April 2012, the court can’t order the landlord to pay compensation at all - but you may be able to take action (including court action) to get an unprotected tenancy deposit returned.

 

If you do decide to take him to court, I personally think that it's quite likely that the judge will still make a deduction for the cost of the carpet - if you've burned a hole in it with a candle that isn't reasonable wear and tear, it's damage (which is one of the reasons a deposit is required in the first place). Also bear in mind that although the court can order the landlord to pay you compensation it doesn't mean that they definitely will!

[yklondon]

OK. Thanks for the post Laughing Girl.

So it means that for me it is better to back off this time...?

[LaughingGirl]

It depends really. Do you think £600 is fair for replacement of the carpet? I personally know of one firm who will carpet a 3 bedroom house for £500 - the landlord can't replace a cord carpet with an Axminster!

[yklondon]

Thanks LaughingGirl!

Unfortunately, the carpet was kind of new and expensive look(fluffy and non code), they said for the entire flat, it cost them 2000 at the beginning, so i wonder why it goes to 600 for my room only(there is another bed room, and a big living room as well). Can you by any chance let me know the capeter who charges only 500 for the entire flat? I am thinking of arranging a cleaner which is more reasonable, and find an alternative carpeter who can fill in the damage and am going to tell them that if they want to install the whole thing, they have to partially bear the cost as well. this way, they should not want to pay too exp ones because the cost would be born by both parties depending on the age of the carpet.

 

Thanks all again! I cannot concentrate on work today...

[LaughingGirl]

Also, I forgot to mention that (and this is important, so sorry!) he must also allow an amount for reasonable wear and tear - e.g. if it's two years old he'd have to deduct an amount from the cost of the carpet because it's not brand new.

 

Whereabouts are you based?

[raydetinu]

The deposit does NOT need to be protected as the LL lives in the property and there are shared fascilities. You are in fact a Lodger and your rights are very limited.

[yklondon]

Hi, the carpet was probably about less than 1 year old(but not sure of this, i will confirm on this)

 

I was in between West hampstead & kilburn area, now already moved to another place.

My current landlord has told me that i could ask for the evidence of the carpet age, and deduct the fee that i need to cover from there.

 

Do you think it is fair for me to re-arrange the professional cleaner that is cheaper than 200? in that case, i will arrange sth and send them to the flat since I am not there anymore.

 

Thanks all again

[The Carpet Cleaners]

As you moved out 2 weeks ago how can you send in a professional cleaner??

 

As a former carpet cleaner myself I would say for the type of carpet described and the cleaning to be done £200 is a fair estimation, and as for repairing it.... That is only ever going to be a cosmetic job, and if I owned the carpet would not be happy with that.....

 

You had your chance to sort all this out before you left.

Sorry.

[mariner51]

"OK. the carpet was kind of new, they replaced it last year. but does the 2cm hole make it justifiable to replace the whole room?"

Assuming min life expectacy of carpet at 5 yrs and 1 yr old, you are liable for min 80% of new replacement cost for your room. Good news is if carpet throughout is only 1yr old, LL should be able to source matching carpet for your room. As CC says a candle burn is 100% T damage, and repair would not be acceptable to most LLs or future Ts, so LL is entitled to claim 80% of new replacement carpet on your figures.

What type of 'casuall agreement' did you sign?

Sounds like a lodger arrangement, LL shares same flat with sep bedro0m/bathroom, whilst sharing kitchen and other living accom. If so. your friend and others are wrong. Deposit protection only applies to tenants with AST, not lodgers.

 

If 'LL' is willing to submit to DPS ADR, that is the best result you can hope for.

[yklondon]

Thanks f Mariner51.

 

Can you explain to me what T damage is?

so if he agrees to take this to the counrt as Alternative Deposit resolution service, I could get better deals, but if not, i have to pay whatever he asks, correct?

 

It seems like it was a bad idea to stay as a lodger from the start.

 

Thanks all

[Bang!]

English law - you are an "Excluded Tenant" and have minimal rights and I'm reasonably sure this excludes deposit protection.

 

As a landlord, livingroom, or in shared flats bedroom carpets only last on average four years, and are normally destroyed rather than wearing out. Based on this its best buying cheap carpets, as they will never wear out.

 

Candle burns will destroy a carpet, and while decent heavy pile carpets could be repaired, cheap ones generally cannot.

 

As for prices, I replaced a carpet in a small single room a couple of months ago and it cost £20 to buy with me fitting it myself. How big was the room (the larger the size, the price increases exponentially as you cannot buy off-cuts for the job)? The carpet I fitted was actually good quality, but if damaged it would be cheaper to replace.

[yklondon]

Hi Bang, thanks for the post.

I have not really measured it, but it would only fit 2 double beds(one double bed and a desk and a wardrobe) there is a space of max 3 sqm to walk and be able to see the actual carpet.

 

If you say it would be around 20, I do not understand why I am charged by 600 though.

 

In any case, I will ask for the original copy and the explanation of the damage cost that I should bear.

 

I will write a formal letter to them that I demand a decent transparency for them to deduct money from my deposit.

 

as for cleaning, I figured I better forget about arranging a cheaper one for myself as I already have moved out( might discuss with other people if this could be a possibility)

 

Any more suggestions how best I can excersise this?

Thanks

[mariner51]

T damage = tenant damage

 

If you do take LL to Court, LL would have to justify amount claimed. It is for LL to choose & estimate cost equiv replacement carpet, it is for Judge to decide if reasonable. If you lose, you will be liable for Court fee (£100?) and other side's allowable expenses (£150?)for attending plus your own travel costs & loss of earnings.

You have vacated so no longer possible to have access to property. nor for your cleaners.

Bang's £20 carpet is unrealistic for size of room described. I noticed a shop selling sample swatches as door mats for £10. each

 

.

Edited August 22, 2012 by mariner51
Confusion