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    • Post in Suing a parcel delivery company when you don't have a direct contract with them – third-party rights Copy of judgment available

      BankFodder posted a post in a topic,

      We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

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      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Parcel delivery insurance is prohibited under section 57 – Consumer Rights Act – Read about It Here and in The Times.

Sage Business Charges Reclaim - **WON**

katesage

By katesage
in NatWest Successes

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katesage

katesage

Posted
Posted

New thread for a new claim!

 

Finally spoke to Margaret at NW to ask why I havnt received a complete set of business statements as requested on June 14th!

 

I received four pages from 2004 but nothing else. Margaret agreed to send the complete set within 5-10 days.

 

I sent off a DPA for this on 7th June but NW stopped the cheque and charged me £5 instead, when I phoned them to chase personal/cc and biz. In my opinion the SAR request would still be valid though. So as things stand they are very much in breach of the DPA.

 

However, I am going to try a slightly different tack with this claim, so unless statements DONT arrrive I shall not pursue DPA non compliance at this stage.

 

I am going to try and request NW supply me with invoices for these 'Service Charges', I am also going to point out that as I have claimed (soon to be successfully) on my personal account, if I am refunded theses charges in the future then this creates a 'tax situation'. At the moment as far as I'm aware, bank charges are deducted from my tax burden. No invoices are provided, so how does one justify them to the tax man? If they are refunded, I will possibly have to pay some tax?

 

Anyway comments and support always appreciated.

 

:D

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katesage

katesage

Posted
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Hmmmmmmm........

 

Today received 7 pages from 2006, presumably to add to the 5 pages from 2004 (received june).

 

So far out of 43 statement pages, I am missing 31!

 

Not too good. May have to pursue DPA if they keep this up.:grin:

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  • 4 weeks later...
katesage

katesage

Posted
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Posted

Just spoke to Sufyaan at NW who was really helpful and polite. Mystified at non arrival of statements and has reordered them again.....

fingers crossed they will arrive soon but in the meantime i'm off to brush up on DPA non compliance. 5 months of waiting is slightly more than the 40 day limit! That much i do know:grin:

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Shelty

Shelty

Posted
Posted

Hi Kate,

I've banked my NW cheque from Cobbetts for my personal a/c which arrived this morning, and am thinking about doing a small claim for a business we had a couple of years ago. I've got all of my statements, but do you know if the wording is any different in the approach letters for a business account?

ps NW credit cards also caved in this morning to my requests....perhaps a trend is emerging here !!!

M-Stanley, Marbles , Barclaycard,Cap 1, NW CC's x 3, NWest, MBNA , HSBC CC ALL WON

 

Outstanding

Halifax initial 11/10 acknowledged 19/10 LBA 25/10

LTSB initial 12/10 LBA 26/10

Barclays initial 3/10,response 9/10 LBA 17/10,MCOL 1/11, defence &AQ 10/12

Bof Ireland mort' S.A.R 16/10, initial 23/11, LBA 7/12,MCOL 23/12

NatWest home loans S.A.R sent 23/10,Initial 16/12, LBA 6/1

NatWest business a/c initial 9/11, LBA 25/11, MCOL 9/12, AQ 20/1,cheque recieved 17/2 but had to send it back !!

HSBC c/a AQ returned 17/2

HSBC bus' a/c MCOL 17/2

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katesage

katesage

Posted
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Posted

hi shelty..great minds eh!? i banked my personal cheque yesterday!

 

there are some differences, mainly we cannot refer to Consumer legislation in our letters, because we are not consumers, we are businesses!

 

there are letters for this in templates. i'm off to have a better read. keep me posted of your progress.

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Shelty

Shelty

Posted
Posted

Hi Kate, did you manage to find a template for an initial letter for your business a/c, I can only find a LBA template?

M-Stanley, Marbles , Barclaycard,Cap 1, NW CC's x 3, NWest, MBNA , HSBC CC ALL WON

 

Outstanding

Halifax initial 11/10 acknowledged 19/10 LBA 25/10

LTSB initial 12/10 LBA 26/10

Barclays initial 3/10,response 9/10 LBA 17/10,MCOL 1/11, defence &AQ 10/12

Bof Ireland mort' S.A.R 16/10, initial 23/11, LBA 7/12,MCOL 23/12

NatWest home loans S.A.R sent 23/10,Initial 16/12, LBA 6/1

NatWest business a/c initial 9/11, LBA 25/11, MCOL 9/12, AQ 20/1,cheque recieved 17/2 but had to send it back !!

HSBC c/a AQ returned 17/2

HSBC bus' a/c MCOL 17/2

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katesage

katesage

Posted
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Posted

Hi Shelty

 

I will probably just amend the template LBA and send it as a prelim, shouldn't be too tricky. Are you at that stage?

I wish I was..............if only they would send the statements! well they have one more week before I take it further:x

 

Congratulations on your win btw:-)

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Shelty

Shelty

Posted
Posted

I've managed to work out my charges from the statements, although I came across one which read "Arrangement fee" £85....no idea what that was for ?

The rest are all marked as "Referral fee"/"Chq return fee" & "unpaid items" so I'm assuming that they're ok ? What do you think ?

M-Stanley, Marbles , Barclaycard,Cap 1, NW CC's x 3, NWest, MBNA , HSBC CC ALL WON

 

Outstanding

Halifax initial 11/10 acknowledged 19/10 LBA 25/10

LTSB initial 12/10 LBA 26/10

Barclays initial 3/10,response 9/10 LBA 17/10,MCOL 1/11, defence &AQ 10/12

Bof Ireland mort' S.A.R 16/10, initial 23/11, LBA 7/12,MCOL 23/12

NatWest home loans S.A.R sent 23/10,Initial 16/12, LBA 6/1

NatWest business a/c initial 9/11, LBA 25/11, MCOL 9/12, AQ 20/1,cheque recieved 17/2 but had to send it back !!

HSBC c/a AQ returned 17/2

HSBC bus' a/c MCOL 17/2

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katesage

katesage

Posted
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Arrangement fees are for 'arranging' overdrafts. you lucky blighter, my last arrangement fee was £125.

 

As this is for a service (admittedly expensive:grin: ) it is not reclaimable because it did not come about due to any contractual breaches.

 

On second thoughts regarding the prelim letter. I just re-read the consumer version and it would work fine as long as any mention of 'Consumer' is removed, ie recent legislation and findings by the OFT.

 

Thankfully the main basis of our reclaiming these charges is not the April 06 OFT findings but due to the banks flagrant breach of Contract Law, ie charging 'penalties' for our 'breaches', so we are not relying on the recent OFT rulings to guide us home.

 

keep me posted;-)

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Guest Scarletrose

Guest Scarletrose

Posted
Posted

Hi Kate

 

you go girl, hit 'em where it hurts, unbelievable that the referral fees made up most of that total, but thats snatchwest for ya.

 

just been rading thru the 'wot r u like ' thread in bear garden fantastic aint it, consideing posting myself however i live under police protaction so i dunno if a good idea.

 

scarlet

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katesage

katesage

Posted
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Posted
Hi Kate

 

you go girl, hit 'em where it hurts, unbelievable that the referral fees made up most of that total, but thats snatchwest for ya.

 

just been rading thru the 'wot r u like ' thread in bear garden fantastic aint it, consideing posting myself however i live under police protaction so i dunno if a good idea.

 

scarlet

 

PMSL! You go girl too! tell us all about it!:-D

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  • 2 weeks later...
Shelty

Shelty

Posted
Posted

Hi Kate, have you managed to get a response from NW yet ? It's 2 weeks tomorrow since I wrote to the gut who was my Business Mngr & not a dicky back !

M-Stanley, Marbles , Barclaycard,Cap 1, NW CC's x 3, NWest, MBNA , HSBC CC ALL WON

 

Outstanding

Halifax initial 11/10 acknowledged 19/10 LBA 25/10

LTSB initial 12/10 LBA 26/10

Barclays initial 3/10,response 9/10 LBA 17/10,MCOL 1/11, defence &AQ 10/12

Bof Ireland mort' S.A.R 16/10, initial 23/11, LBA 7/12,MCOL 23/12

NatWest home loans S.A.R sent 23/10,Initial 16/12, LBA 6/1

NatWest business a/c initial 9/11, LBA 25/11, MCOL 9/12, AQ 20/1,cheque recieved 17/2 but had to send it back !!

HSBC c/a AQ returned 17/2

HSBC bus' a/c MCOL 17/2

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jax1964

jax1964

Posted
Posted

Good luck Kate. I am also claiming for charges on my business account, fortunately I have all of the statements and so have sent prelim and lba. Their reply is basically saying there are different terms and conditions for business accounts and therefore we cannot claim. Ha - they're having a laugh. However I didn't know what referral fees were and so I haven't included them in my schedule so will go throu my statements again and add them fees in also. BTW got back charges from Natwest personal account and credit card so am hoping I can use that as leverage to get them to cough up a bit earlier - not holding my breath though as this business one is a much larger claim and I am hoping to get contractual interest also.

Jax

 

Marbles/HSBC - SETTLED IN FULL

Beneficial/HSBC - SETTLED IN FULL 01/08/2006

NatWest Cr Cd - SETTLED IN FULL in respect of default judgement obtained 06/09/06

Natwest - SETTLED IN FULL 20/10/06

Abbey T/A Business Account - SETTLED IN FULL 07/03/2006 :grin:

Abbey Current Account - SETTLED IN FULL 16/03/2006 :grin:

Citi - SETTLED IN FULL 17/05/2007 :D

Natwest Business Account - On going

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katesage

katesage

Posted
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Hi Jax and Shelty

 

I only got round to sending off my prelim on the 24th so they've got till 7th December to reply. Like you Jax Ive just reclaimed charges from my personal account but somehow I doubt that will act as much leverage.

 

Good luck to you both and keep me posted of your progress.:)

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jax1964

jax1964

Posted
Posted

That's fantastic news Kate. Well done. Wish they were that accomodating to me.

Jax

 

Marbles/HSBC - SETTLED IN FULL

Beneficial/HSBC - SETTLED IN FULL 01/08/2006

NatWest Cr Cd - SETTLED IN FULL in respect of default judgement obtained 06/09/06

Natwest - SETTLED IN FULL 20/10/06

Abbey T/A Business Account - SETTLED IN FULL 07/03/2006 :grin:

Abbey Current Account - SETTLED IN FULL 16/03/2006 :grin:

Citi - SETTLED IN FULL 17/05/2007 :D

Natwest Business Account - On going

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walterliscious

walterliscious

Posted
Posted

Well done Kate, keep on inspiring! Does this mean they are caving in do you think? Im just about to send prelim. on my business account, maybe I should just go in there and ask for the money they have taken !!

 

Moderated

Please do not post what may be seen as libelous .this is to protect this site

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The cobbett slayer

The cobbett slayer

Posted
Posted

Did you flash those big brown eyes at them Kate:D

 

I'm gonna need to talk to you soon as I'm no expert on business charges but my local off licence owner (and very good friend:o ) has just told me he has been charged £27K in the last 3 years so we're gonna sort him out!!!

 

Well done babes

 

Paul

Advice given is either my experience or my opinion and is given without liability. If in doubt, consult a qualified professional.

If you PM me for advice I will only reply in your own thread

 

Never under estimate your ability. I won over £17,000!

For the full story - look here

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/NatWest-bank/17630-thecobbettslayer-NatWest.html

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katesage

katesage

Posted
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Posted
Did you flash those big brown eyes at them Kate:D

 

I'm gonna need to talk to you soon as I'm no expert on business charges but my local off licence owner (and very good friend:o ) has just told me he has been charged £27K in the last 3 years so we're gonna sort him out!!!

 

Well done babes

 

Paul

 

 

Ooooooh I did Paul!!!;)

 

Happy to talk, although by rolling over and showing their belly so early, I can't pretend to be an expert...but I sure have formed some opinions!

 

How are you hun? Did you have a good time on friday?

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The cobbett slayer

The cobbett slayer

Posted
Posted

I had a very good time thanks hun as the photos show. You were the fortunate one who got the flattering comments while I was still sober:D

Advice given is either my experience or my opinion and is given without liability. If in doubt, consult a qualified professional.

If you PM me for advice I will only reply in your own thread

 

Never under estimate your ability. I won over £17,000!

For the full story - look here

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/NatWest-bank/17630-thecobbettslayer-NatWest.html

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Shelty

Shelty

Posted
Posted

Well done Kate, I'm wondering if NW have just decided to pay anything under £1k to get rid of it ! My business claim is just over, & I've had the st'd Stuart Higley letter, even sent him a copy of my LBA & still nothing, so MCOL here I come at the end of the week !

M-Stanley, Marbles , Barclaycard,Cap 1, NW CC's x 3, NWest, MBNA , HSBC CC ALL WON

 

Outstanding

Halifax initial 11/10 acknowledged 19/10 LBA 25/10

LTSB initial 12/10 LBA 26/10

Barclays initial 3/10,response 9/10 LBA 17/10,MCOL 1/11, defence &AQ 10/12

Bof Ireland mort' S.A.R 16/10, initial 23/11, LBA 7/12,MCOL 23/12

NatWest home loans S.A.R sent 23/10,Initial 16/12, LBA 6/1

NatWest business a/c initial 9/11, LBA 25/11, MCOL 9/12, AQ 20/1,cheque recieved 17/2 but had to send it back !!

HSBC c/a AQ returned 17/2

HSBC bus' a/c MCOL 17/2

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