Arrow Global/Brian Carter court proceedings - need help!***Discontinued***

[AndyOrch]

In addition to my last post would it also be a good idea in your opinion to chase BC now (in writing) for documents in light of submitting defence?

 

Many thanks.

 

You don't chase CPR requests you let them slip into none compliance which adds leverage to the proceedings as they progress.

 

Try this defence but edit to suit.

 

DEFENCE

 

1. Paragraph 1 is nether admitted or denied with regards to the Defendant entering in to an Agreement referred to in the Particulars of Claim ('the Agreement') the Claimant has yet to disclose any Agreement. Furthermore any claim for partial monies is averred Contrary to s35 of the county court Act 1984 s35 Division of causes of action.

 

2. Paragraph 2 is noted with regards to termination of the alleged contractual Agreement , the Defendant has no knowledge, therefore the Claimant is placed to strict proof there of.

 

3. Paragraph 1 is denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant and the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

 

(a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement with the Claimant; and

(b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and

© show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

 

4. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

5. On the alternative, if the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

6. By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[DCAtarget]

Thanks Andy, your one does sound better and reads more "legal" (to me anyway, a layman).

 

I know you said edit to suit but just so I am clear on the meanings behind what I am writing...

 

the Claimant has yet to disclose any Agreement. Furthermore any claim for partial monies is averred Contrary to s35 of the county court Act 1984 s35 Division of causes of action.

 

Is this just for split claims? How would one determine a split claim, would it normally say in POC?

 

Also does paragraph 5 basically mean they are not entitled to ask for money as I haven't had a deed of assignment?

 

Should I receive documents in the meantime from BC or claimant, would I then be able to amend or submit a new defence based on what they send?

 

Thanks again, appreciate your help.

[AndyOrch]

Thanks Andy, your one does sound better and reads more "legal" (to me anyway, a layman).

 

I know you said edit to suit but just so I am clear on the meanings behind what I am writing...

 

 

 

Is this just for split claims? How would one determine a split claim, would it normally say in POC? That point is yes they normally state " Partial Monies "

 

Also does paragraph 5 basically mean they are not entitled to ask for money as I haven't had a deed of assignment? Notice of Assignment yes

 

Should I receive documents in the meantime from BC or claimant, would I then be able to amend or submit a new defence based on what they send? You expand within your AQ and WS dont amend your defence as this adds to costs. State within your defence you have asked for disclosure pursuant to CPR 31.14 and the Claimant has ignored your request...leave it at that, the DJ can make what he likes from that statement.

 

Thanks again, appreciate your help.

 

 

Regards

 

Andy

[DCAtarget]

My POC was

THE CLAIMANT'S CLAIM IS FOR THE BALANCE DUE UNDER AN AGREEMENT WHICH IS NOW ALL DUE AND PAYABLE.

 

THE DEFENDANT AGREED TO PAY MONTHLY INSTALMENTS UNDER ACCOUNT NUMBER XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX BUT HAS FAILED TO DO SO.

 

AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS THE SUM OF XXX.XX.

 

THE CLAIMANT ALSO CLAIMS interest THEREON PURSUANT TO S.69 COUNTY COURT ACT 1984 LIMITED TO ONE YEAR TO THE DATE HEREOF AT THE RATE OF 8%PER ANNUM AMOUNTING TO 0.00

 

 

 

DRAFT

DEFENCE

 

1. Paragraph 1 is neither admitted nor denied with regards to the Defendant entering in to an Agreement referred to in the Particulars of Claim ('the Agreement') the Claimant has yet to disclose any Agreement.

 

2. Paragraph 2 is noted with regards to termination of the alleged contractual Agreement, the Defendant has no knowledge; therefore the Claimant is placed to strict proof thereof.

 

3. Paragraph 1 & 3 is denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant and the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

 

(a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement with the Claimant; and

(b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and

© show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

 

4. I have asked for disclosure pursuant to CPR 31.14 and the Claimant has not yet fulfilled request.

 

5. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

6. On the alternative, if the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

7. By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

 

 

How does this look? Admittedly it isn't a lot different. My question is do I mention that BC offered a 14 day extension on receipt of documents (see post #39)? ......or is it enough that I just put they haven't complied/fulfilled request as per line 4?

 

Any further advice/amendments more than welcome. Apologies for the need for hand holding on this, I've been staring at various threads for most of evening and head is all over the place.

[citizenB]

I guess you could rewrite point 4 as follows:-

 

4: I have asked for disclosure pursuant to CPR 31.14 and the Claimant has not yet fulfilled request, other than to provide an ambigous letter/communication advising that the "claimant will permit an extra 14 days from disclosure of documents for the defendant to submit a defence". Still not providing any confirmed date for them supplying the documents. It is my understanding that such a "variable date" is not permitted under CPR15.5 as the parties to the claim are only allowed to extend by 28 days. After which time, only the court can extend further on application.

 

4a: Having contacted the Court for guidance, I was advised that it would be in my interests to submit a defence as the Claimant would be able to file for a default judgment, as there was no clear instruction to extend.

 

How does that sound ?

[AndyOrch]

I guess you could rewrite point 4 as follows:-

 

 

 

How does that sound ?

 

[phaitun]

Great defence DCATarget

[Mike_hawk]

Hi DCAt......... just got your PM. I'd agree with Cb and Andy, it's an issue that really does need bringing to the courts attention within your defence....... far too many cases like yours that appear purely speculative.

[DCAtarget]

My sincere thanks to you all. Don't know what I would have done without you and this forum.

I'll submit defence tonight when I get home from work.

[DCAtarget]

I've just submitted defence online.

 

One small question: I made a CCA request to a previous DCA a number of years ago who were unable to provide documents who I have since SAR'd (as well as OC). Would it be worth sending a new CCA request to Arrow Global or would wait to see if they comply with CPR request?

 

Thanks.

[Mike_hawk]

You don't 'know' what the cause it yet until it responds to the CPR request. Tbh, you really don't want to be giving them any clues by making CCA requests for unknown accounts. If it turns out they have something enforceable you may be able to counter with the earlier CCA dispute if the quantum of claim is made up of interest in default etc.

[DCAtarget]

You don't 'know' what the cause it yet until it responds to the CPR request. Tbh, you really don't want to be giving them any clues by making CCA requests for unknown accounts. If it turns out they have something enforceable you may be able to counter with the earlier CCA dispute if the quantum of claim is made up of interest in default etc.

 

Understood, thanks Mike.

[citizenB]

I think you should have made a CCA request as soon as you received the first letter from AG which would have left them in breach of s78 had they failed to comply.

 

If you have a CPR request in then they should respond to that.

 

If previous DCAs have failed to comply with an s78 request, I wonder if there is a problem retrieving a copy !

[Mike_hawk]

Hi Cb

 

I don't believe there has been any contact from AG with the exception of the claim..... post #1 contains a brief outline of events.

 

Perhaps Dcat can confirm

[citizenB]

Hi Cb

 

I don't believe there has been any contact from AG with the exception of the claim..... post #1 contains a brief outline of events.

 

Perhaps Dcat can confirm

 

 

So no communication to advise they were the new owners or anything at all. Just straight into a claim ?

 

Sheesh..

[DCAtarget]

So no communication to advise they were the new owners or anything at all. Just straight into a claim ?

 

Sheesh..

 

According to their site they were debt purchasers of the year in 2011 (they must be so proud). Maybe they were just too busy to have the decency to let me know they'd bought this one.

[DCAtarget]

Just a quick update. Received what would be seem to be the standard letter from BC stating that are no longer instructed and have returned the account to their client. Still fairly early days but not heard anything else apart from this.

[citizenB]

I imagine your next communication will be from Arrow, advising that their litigation department will be taking over and all correspondence in respect of the claim will now need to go to them.

 

I find it very strange indeed that they do this !!

[postggj]

has your request under CPR 31.14 been acknowledged and complied with

 

were you given extra time to file a defence as to CPR 15.5 AND DID YOU INFORM THE COURT ON THIS AGREEMENT BETWEEN CARTER AND YOURSELF

[DCAtarget]

has your request under CPR 31.14 been acknowledged and complied with

 

were you given extra time to file a defence as to CPR 15.5 AND DID YOU INFORM THE COURT ON THIS AGREEMENT BETWEEN CARTER AND YOURSELF

 

Hi,

 

My CPR31.14 and CPR18 have been acknowledged with a vague filing extension (see previous posts) and I sent a letter in post #33 (courtesy of CitizenB) recorded delivery to the court and sent a copy to BC too. I have since submitted a defence on advice of court and people here as I couldn't be sure BC would honour the extension they offered (see earlier posts).

 

Is it advisable to chase up my CPR requests with Arrow or just sit tight (as BC are now not dealing with it)?

[postggj]

If they have not produced the documents as to cpr 31.14, you need to do an n244 application notice with a draft order for directions to throw out the claim

 

it will cost £80 which you will get back if carter does not comply

[DCAtarget]

Thanks for your advice. What are the benefits of this in your view versus defending on lack of documentary evidence in court?

[Mike_hawk]

 

Is it advisable to chase up my CPR requests with Arrow or just sit tight (as BC are now not dealing with it)?

 

I wouldn't be inclined to remind it of anything, it has your requests....... if it fails to comply and proceeds with the case you can add a draft order for disclosure at AQ. Depending on whether the court agrees with you that would be the time to look at your options again.

[DCAtarget]

I wouldn't be inclined to remind it of anything, it has your requests....... if it fails to comply and proceeds with the case you can add a draft order for disclosure at AQ. Depending on whether the court agrees with you that would be the time to look at your options again.

 

Thanks mate, sounds like a good idea. I think I'll wait for the AQ as you suggest.

[postggj]

the only draw back of doing a directions application when you get the AQ is that it gives the claimant more time to retrieve any documents

 

a directions order now puts them on 14 days notice to comply with cpr 31.14 or the claim gets slung out

 

but its your choice at the end of the day