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Arrow Global/Brian Carter court proceedings - need help!***Discontinued***


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Hi.

 

Thanks for taking time to read my post I really hope someone can help me as I am really worried about it and unsure of the best way to proceed.

 

I received a claim form from Northampton County Court this morning with the following particulars:

 

THE CLAIMANT'S CLAIM IS FOR THE BALANCE DUE UNDER AN AGREEMENT WHICH IS NOW ALL DUE AND PAYABLE

THE DEFENDANT AGREED TO PAY MONTHLY INSTALMENTS UNDER ACCOUNT NUMBER XXXXX BUT HAS FAILED TO DO SO.

 

AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS THE SUM OF 989.81.

 

THE CLAIMANT ALSO CLAIMS INTEREST THEREON PURSUANT TO S.69 COUNTY COURT ACT 1984 LIMITED TO ONE YEAR TO THE DATE HEREOF AT THE RATE OF 8%PER ANNUM AMOUNTING TO 0.00

 

AMOUNT CLAIMED: XX9.81

COURT FEE: 55.00

SOLICITOR'S COSTS: 70.00

TOTAL AMOUNT: XXX4.81

 

I've worked out that this refers to an old Natwest credit card. There was no mention of this on the claim form.

 

Back in June 2008 I sent a CCA request to Moorcroft who were chasing this debt at the time. I have the recorded post receipt.

They sent a letter back saying they couldn't produce one, unfortunately I can't find the letter but looking through my computer records I sent them the following letter on 11th July 2008...

 

Thank you for your letter dated 1st July 2008 regarding my request for a signed copy of the relevant agreement under the Consumer Credit Act. Although you state that you are unable to provide me with a copy as requested it is my understanding that under the new Unfair Commercial Practices Directive you have the same responsibilities as the original creditor to comply with my CCA request.

 

I therefore enclose a postal order for £1.00, which represents the statuary fee and remind you that as I asked for this on 25th June 2008 you need to supply me with a copy before Monday 14th July 2008.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

A few months later (Sept 2008) I get a letter from Allied International Credit chasing money so sent them an account in dispute letter asking to return account to original creditor.

 

I've not heard anything about this debt since, until today.

 

I have had a look through some of the posts on here and I'm sorry I am still a bit confused about what to do next. I think I should go online and defend claim? The issue date of claim is 13th August but only received today - is the deadline tomorrow - 5 days?

 

The other problem is that I am going on holiday on Monday for 2 weeks so am worried about potential time limits on dealing with this as I wont be home. Can someone please please help me with what I need to do next.

 

I really appreciate any advice/help you guys can offer me.

 

Thank you.

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Ok. WHen was the last time you made any payment towards the debt? Also, what do your credit files say about this? This is very important.

 

Also, the account was in dispute as they failed to provide a CCA.

 

Hopefully someone with more knowledge of the court system will come and look in on this thread, as it seems bryan carter are pushing for judgement by default, or trying to get a CCJ on a bad debt.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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Welcome to CAG, the site team will be around to help soon, they are great.

 

to start send the acknowledgement of service back use the online system it helps keep deadlines. print off and save copies of everything. write down your passwords etc.

 

keep a running log - a simple table of events - it helps later.

 

watch the timescales, look through some threads you will learn a lot

 

Its your choice if you contest all of the claim, so you either defend it all or not.

 

Carter is well known here and i have had some attention from a similar claim from him and his friends. seen them off for now at my hearing recently.

 

SAR the original creditor, people advise to use CPR 31.14 and CPR 18 rules to get docs, Carter and co mostly ignore them, stilll send them anyway.

 

they are in breach of your CCA request, so they shouldnt be allowed to enforce the claim anyway, again they will probably blame the other company and say they didnt know about the dispute. Judges may accept this or may not (lottery).

 

Everything in writing, keep envelopes and letters, recorded delivery all your requests.

 

Send Carter another CCA request also.

 

The SAR results from the original creditor will be enlightening, go through them in micro detail, even the computer screen prints they send.

 

Ive found some golden nuggets amongst that lot.

 

someone will be along to help soon enough i am sure

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I am fighting it all the way :-x

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Thank you so much.

 

I've just completed the acknowledgement of service online as suggested. I will research the CPR 31.14 and CPR 18 letters you mentioned and send asap and also sort out an SAR.

 

Now I have completed the acknowledgement of service and when I send the CPR letters what is my next step and do I have to file defense in 14 days? My biggest worry is that I am going on holiday Monday morning and wont be back home till 4th September.

 

Many thanks again - I will definitely be donating something for this site - i am so grateful and it's good to know I'm not alone with this.

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Its 14 days for acknowledgement and 28 for a defence iirc.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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Thanks for highlighting that. I had a particularly long day yesterday and seeing the letter on my doorstep wasn't great - think I went into panic mode but I spent a long time last night looking through advice on threads and my head is a little clearer now.

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I've written our this based on a thread I've been looking at on here. Please can someone look over it for me before I send?

 

I've highlighted a paragraph in bold as I am not sure what to put here bearing in mind post 12, referenced in my first post.

 

 

Re: Arrow Global Limited v xxxxxxxxx Case No: xxxxxxx

 

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On 17th August 2012 I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the Northampton County Court.

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

[Prior to the issue of proceedings I had delivered a request for the production of the agreement mentioned in the Claim Form and on which you rely. That request was ignored][delete if no such request was delivered]

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

 

1 the agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

[Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £5,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise]

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

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Ok, claim issed 13 August 2012 + 5 for service = 18 August + 14 to ackwnowledge = 01 September + 14 to submit defence = 33 days from date of issue to submission of defence.

 

You have sent off the CPR31.14. IMHO you should also have requested a statement of account showing how the balance being claimed had accrued. However, if you have sent the letter already !!

 

The PoC is a shambles as is expected from Bryan Carter.

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In veiw of the very brief PoC - you could if you wish, make Bryan Carter work for his fee !! It is my understanding that he is being used to file these claims only. As soon as a Defence is submitted in whatever form, the claims are being taken back in house by Arrow Global and their "Litigation team"

One avenue open to you is to make them replead their case, using the submission below. But it might be worth holding on at least for 10 days to see what happens in respect of your CPR requests and also for other cagger input. You have until 1st September to acknowledge the claim (and a further 14 days after that for your defence) so you do have a little time in hand.

Defence

The Defendant takes issue with the Claimants pleadings. The Claim is a Bulk Centre claim, however, the rules on pleading apply even to the Bulk Centre and furthermore the Bulk Centre rules and guidelines state that if you cannot properly particularise the claim in 1024 characters then you should not use the Bulk Centre to issue the claim. The Claimants pleadings amount to circa 400 characters, leaving at least 600 characters available for the Claimant to plead adequately. The Defendant is embarrassed by the Claim, which faces him.

This is the information you are looking to obtain. It might be worth drafting a CPR Part 18 request - I will sort something out over the weekend.

Have you ever received a default notice in respect of this account ?

Do you know if there are any charges included in that sum they are claiming

Were you advised that the account had been assigned - eg did anyone write to you and tell you this.

Do you know when the last payment was made to the account ?

Was there any PPI that might have been missold?

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Thank you so much for your post :-D

 

You have sent off the CPR31.14. IMHO you should also have requested a statement of account showing how the balance being claimed had accrued. However, if you have sent the letter already !!

The only thing I have done at the moment is completed the the acknowledgement of service online, I misunderstood and thought I had to do this within 5 days of the claim.

 

This is the information you are looking to obtain. It might be worth drafting a CPR part 18 request - I will sort something out over the weekend.

 

Have you ever received a default notice in respect of this account ?

Do you know if there are any charges included in that sum they are claiming

Were you advised that the account had been assigned - eg did anyone write to you and tell you this.

Do you know when the last payment was made to the account ?

Was there any PPI that might have been missold?

 

I honestly can't remember if I received a default notice or not. It doesn't show with credit reference agency so if they did it was longer than 6 years ago. I was making payments (through a DMP) until June 2008 when I sent off a CCA request (which I didn't receive). Not heard about this account again to my knowledge. I put the account in dispute and forgot about it....until yesterday. Pretty sure I didn't get advised the account was assigned. No PPI but possibly charges - I didn't want to pursue charges as I thought this might acknowledge account resetting statute barred clock.

 

You said you would sort something out for me over weekend. Mate, I am so grateful for this - thank you so much.

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Yes, I will draft up a CPR part 18 for the other information you require.

 

In theory, if they havent complied with your s78 request then they shouldnt have issued the claim.. !!

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2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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In theory, if they havent complied with your s78 request then they shouldnt have issued the claim.. !!

That's what I was banking on but i guess they will just say they didn't know about it as I sent it to Moorcroft who were chasing payments at the time.

Thanks again for your help. Would I need to send a CPR31.14 as well as the 18? If so, as they've only mentioned "the agreement" in the POC can I still ask them to send other information regarding the claim or is that what the 18 does? Sorry for all the questions..

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This is one of the problems with Original Creditors passing the accounts round DCAs. Again in theory, Moorcroft should have requested the agreement from the OC. It could be that they actually did and in doing so, they were replaced with the next DCA on the list.

 

IMHO, if the paperwork isnt in order, there should be a bar on them being assigned and once an account is disputed due to lack of compliance - they should not be permitted to destroy any documents, regardless of their destruction policies, because it is very likely that litigation will at some stage take place.

 

Yes, they mention the agreement in their PoC so you should send the CPR31.14 for that.

 

CPR18 is used for information - depending on the answers given, you can then ask for the documents. Long winded I know - but those are the rules !!

 

Anyway, here is a draft for you. It might be worth waiting until tomorrow sometime for further comments. I have posted both a word and pdf document. I will try and round up some caggers who are more legally aware.

 

 

 

 

Document for forum.pdf

 

 

DOcument 2 for forum.doc

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Hey DCAtarget. It seems your claim and circumstances are similar to mine - i had a DMP also finished around the same time.

 

You can bet Carter will withdraw and it will go back to AG specialist litigation team once defended.

 

At my hearing they didnt even send one of their specialists, just sent the file to a local brief who is familiar to my local Court and the judges etc. Didnt work for them though as i gave him a hard time, had him sweating although the judge helped him out a lot by mentioning to me that the rep was not an employee but merely an agent.

 

I asked some very pertinent but very awkward questions ;-)

 

The devil is always in the detail!

 

SAR the OC, use the CPR rules. the draft you did was ok. remove any references to 'delete if not applicable' or similar.

 

With your CPR 18 i would also ask the exact date upon when the documents that they rely upon and are lawfully required (agreement, default notice, statements and notice of assignment) were requested by the claimant from the Original Creditor.

 

These documents should have been sighted and in possession of the claimant prior to the claim being issued, in any case if it was not for the Bulk Centre the agreement they rely upon should be attached to the POC.

 

Asking for this will definatley help later in your fight.

 

I would bet a £1 on the fact that they have not yet receieved or requested these documents prior to the claim being issued.

 

Good luck, at times you will feel overawed, sometimes you will be scared. the Caggers here are great and will help when you really need it.

 

One bit of advice i can give is look at everything in microdetail. Pay attention to dates on all documents that you have and recieve from now.

 

You will find lots of information to help you as these fools mostly operate on the basis of default judgements and claims being admitted.

 

They will probably send you a part 36 offer 'without prejudice' to settle out of court, they will brush off your requests for docs, at the deadlines of each and everyone if they have not sent you anything or fully complied, send them a further letter 'formally requesting' each and every document that they should have and 'remind' them of their obligations regarding the CCA, CPR and the over riding objectives.

 

In my case i have now asked for documents and full disclosure 11 times, and they have ducked and dived avoiding the issues and requests. The judge was not too pleased with them.

 

I have made some mistakes along the way with my defence of their claim, although having kept the pressure on them has helped considerably. Each case is different.

 

I would also request via an SAR to Moorcroft full details of all their files on you, dont know if they will send you everything but you can bet they would have a record of your CCA request. All the information you can get from each party can help in proving to the Court the debt was unenforcable due to the CCA breach

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I am fighting it all the way :-x

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Thanks phaitun,

 

I'll SAR both the OC and Moorcroft as suggested. I've also added "5 What was the exact date upon when the documents you rely upon and are lawfully required (agreement, default notice, statements and notice of assignment) were requested by the claimant from the original creditor?" to the letter CitizenB kindly drafted for me.

 

The thought of going to court over this is really scary so I am hoping they will withdraw altogether (might even join a religion and pray for it).

 

One bit of advice i can give is look at everything in microdetail. Pay attention to dates on all documents that you have and recieve from now.

 

Head is well and truly out of the sand now, big time. I've even invested in a expanding organiser file today and will be using that from now on rather than the bin!

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Very good advice from phaitun - :)

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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You do need to sign the CPR letters, yes.. either over tamper proof strips or a grid of.

 

XXXXXXXXXXX

XXXXXXXXXXX

XXXXXXXXXXX

XXXXXXXXXXX

 

Or you can use your intials which always looks smart..

 

 

citizenBcitizenBcitizenBcitizenB

citizenBcitizenBciitzenBcitizenB

citizenBcitizenBcitizenBcitizenB

citizenBcitizenBcitizenBcitizenB

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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