Students arguing who pays the water bill, Please help.

[vazunna]

Hi everyone, Hope you can shed some light on this one.

 

Last July, my daughter thought it wise to leave the family home for a year to experience the student life.

After seeing the error of her ways, she has now returned, towing with her a water bill for £1000......

 

I phoned Welsh Water, and they said the bill was correct.

 

My daughter doesn't dispute she owes the money, its the others in the house that do.

 

Five students signed the tenancy agreement back in July 2011. After a couple of months, two students left and were replaced by another two. They did not update the tenancy agreement to show the change.

Basically, the new tenants reimbursed the bond to the two tenants who were leaving.

From what I can gather, the water bill was never addressed monthly, it just built up.

 

Fast forward to today. The tenancy comes to an end, all go their seperate ways.

Except the water bill seems to have landed on my daughters doorstep.

There are 3 names on the bill, cos Welsh Water can only get 3 on their billing????????

My daughter, and two others. And yes you guessed it, the other two on the bill are the tenants who left after two months.

 

Now what I need to know is who is ultimately responsible for this bill?

 

The bonds have been released by the letting agent into my daughters account.

 

The debt has been passed to Moorcroft and are threatening more charges.

 

I want to pay the bill out of the bonds and have done with it. After all, IT IS THEIR DEBT.

 

However, the two tenants who are not on the tenancy agreement are denying responsibility for the bill and are demanding their bond be paid forthwith. Stating that should the bill be paid from their bonds, it would be classed as theft.

 

Any thoughts regarding the legal position we find ourselves in.

 

Your help in this matter is greatly appreciated.

 

Vaz.

 

[MARTIN3030]

First of all they should make all parties aware it is in dispute and Moorcroft will suspend action.

A security deposit/bond can of course be used to address arrears if its in the agreement.

[vazunna]

Hi MARTIN3030, thanks for your reply.

 

My daughter, fearing court action, approached Moorcroft with a £50 payment which they duly took.

 

What agreement are you referring to? The tenancy or the Water bill? Bearing in mind these two individuals do not appear on the tenancy agreement.

 

I can deal with Moorcroft I think. It is the threats my daughter is receiving from her so called Uni mates demanding their bonds be paid into their accounts asap. Even though it is their debt..

 

Would you recommend any response to these threats.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Vaz.

[MARTIN3030]

Hello Vaz

Have you looked on Welsh Waters website to view their codes of conduct and complaints procedure ?

Have the dealings been done in writing or over the phone ?

[MARTIN3030]

Give me some time to digest everything here and I will give my thoughts.

[MARTIN3030]

First of all,can you say how much the returned bonds were for ?

You say that you already paid £50 so this leaves £950 for the outstanding amount right?

Have you seen a copy of the bill from Welsh water and is it looking right ?

 

There are a couple of ways to deal here,but they are going to have to require

 

1 Welsh water being informed as to what the situation was as regards the Tenancy.

 

2.That your daughter does not dispute her liability for her share of the bill.

 

3.If its possible,that written confirmation is obtained from the letting agency that the tenancy was inclusive of 5.

 

If the other people are insisting they have a title to have the bonds refunded,that they are informed in writing that they were jointly liable for a proportion of the bill,and that you are in contact with the Water Co and will have to pass on their details to them.

 

I think that if your daughter is able to determine which portion of the bills she is liable for,then should pay this.

 

Once thats been done,then if Moorcroft continue to insist on payment for the full amount,then it would be tantamount to harassment,provided they have been made aware of the facts.

 

The letting agents would seem to have been a party to things not being done correctly too,so they should have some duty of care in assisting your daughter to getting things sorted.

 

If the bonds were used by your daughter on her own initiative to clear the arrears,its unlikely any complaint to the Police would be dealt with,they would most likely say this was a civil matter.

If the other girls chose to file a civil action for recovery of the bonds,they would have to demonstrate that they had a right and title to it,and based on what we know,they dont have rights unless any of the bond amounts remain as more than the outstanding water bill.

[vazunna]

Hi Martin3030, thanks for your reply and guidance. Sorry for not getting back sooner.

As things stand with this situation the students who are demanding the return of their bonds have resorted to constant threats through a Social Network Site.

So much so, my daughter now fears for her safety on return to University in 3 weeks time.

Admittedly, and under advice from myself, she has refrained from corresponding through said Social Network Site.

Purposely to gain as much information and guidance as possible with a view to resolving this matter in the most appropriate way.

Apart from the initial post to all parties stating they need to pay the outstanding bill, she has said nothing.

The other parties have in one way or another accused her of theft and/or embezzlement.

There are five people on the original tenancy agreement.

The same five people are on the Water Bill.

However, the two people who are denying their responsibilities for the water bill are the two that are not on the original tenancy agreement.

These individuals moved into the house soon after the agreement was signed because the original tenants pulled out.

No new tenancy agreement was created or signed to reflect the change of names.

They just reimbursed the original tenants the bond that they had paid.

They then carried on as if they were the tenants.

I hope this is making sense Martin. Please excuse me if you have already answered these questions.

What I would like to know is this:

What can I do to stop these threats? Is it harassment/bullying. If so, what would be her response?

Can she adhere to the original tenancy agreement? i.e: The bonds returned to those named on said agreement?

You have previously said she is entitled to pay any outstanding bills from any returned funds and refund the difference between the two.

Would these funds need to be returned to the people on the original tenancy agreement?

 

A few extracts from the messages she has been receiving:

 

" "Embezzlement is the act of dishonestly withholding assets for the purpose of conversion (theft), of such assets by one or more individuals to whom such assets have been entrusted, to be held and/or used for other purposes."

 

" N*********, we've messaged you several times about it, and we've been notified that you've read those messages. Burying your head in the sand is not going to make this go away. "

 

" This is your last chance. Explain to us what is going on with our money. Don't keep us in the dark. If you don't reply to any of our messages before Tuesday morning, we're going to start taking this further, and once we do, it's not just going to be a matter of apologising for not dealing with the situation well. We don't want to have to take this to the small claims court - but we will. And you will lose. So just do the sensible thing, and tell us what's going on."

 

" Lol don't worry we all do, just thinking if you're in uni with her you can corner her for it or something "

Threat of confrontation.

 

" Tom, you tried calling up the water company right? And they said they couldn't deal with you? "

Because they are not named on the bill

 

" Yeah "

 

" Good, that's important."

 

" Is It ? "

 

" Of course it is. It shows that none of us had the power to sort that water bill and that it was N******* responsibility to sort it out.Which means we're not liable for the charges that ramped up.Which means she's stolen our money to pay for her own mistake."

There are Five people named on the Water Bill.

 

 

 

" You're not going to use our money to pay off the debt that you caused N********."

HOW DID SHE CAUSE IT? They are all liable for the water bills.

 

" I'm sorry, but if you pay off that bill with other people's money, you're committing theft.

What theft? She has the money, just doesn't know what to do with it.

" I've dealt with this exact situation before, and it didn't end well.

 

Seasoned non payer then?

What would be our most appropriate next step please?

 

I feel we need to let them know what we are going to do with their money. That is pay the damn bill like it or not.

 

Advice as ever greatly appreciated.

[vazunna]

Any advice please?

 

Thankyou.

 

Vaz.

[MARTIN3030]

Sorry for late reply as only just saw this after pm.

You might be aware of recent actions following bullying and inappropriate things being posted on social media sites,that is not acceptable and they could find themselves in lots of trouble over it.I think you should take copies of those.

Are you able to determine who exactly is making these comments ?

 

Of course the names on the original agreement are relevant.

The fairest way to be doing the calculations as to who owes what would be to take the billing period that the original 5 were in occupation and divide the amount by 5 to give each persons share of the bill.This amount would then be deducted from any bond paid.

These that are demanding the bond back must surely understand that they were responsible for a portion of the bills ?

Do you have contact details for those who did pay bonds ?

It is not appropriate to be responding on SNS and you are right to ignore the threats being made there.

Have you heard anything further from the water company ?

[vazunna]

Thanks for your reply Martin,

Yes we do know who is making these comments. It is plain to see that one person is " loading the gun with bullets " and the others are firing.

The biggest issue is this. The person/persons who are doing the shouting, are not on the original tenancy or water agreement.

The tenancy started on 1st July 2011. The students paid half rent til September 10th when they were allowed to move in proper.

Prior to the September date, two of the original tenants pulled out and were replaced by the two " guests ".

These " guests " simply reimbursed the original tenants their bond of £260.

It is these two " guests " who are demanding their bonds back.

Do these two individuals have any legal claim to these funds? They are not named on any agreement.

Can we legally return these funds to the original named tenants, minus the water bill, and let these individuals sort it amongst themselves?

The " guests " are saying that it was my daughter's responsibility to sort out the Water bill. I don't agree.

We can ask the landlord for their contact details but I am not sure if they are still valid.

We have not heard anything from the water company or Moorcroft. Probably because all correspondence is still being directed to the property in question.

 

Thanks for your advice Martin.

 

Vaz.

[MARTIN3030]

I think the 2 guests would be entitled to any monies paid returned,less the proportion of the bill which they were liable for (their contribution) for the periods they were in occupation.

It would be worth asking the landlord for the contact details,if they are not valid,then fair enough but it will not cost anything to try.

Maybe worthwhile also to see if the landlord will let you have any correspondence,since it may need a response.

Giving it back and letting them sort it out themselves,needs to be done in a way that finalises things.

I would want some written acceptance from those involved that it would be closure.

 

For this its better that there were a third party involved to oversee it.

[vazunna]

Thanks for your advice MARTIN3030,

 

Will get on to the Landlord for their address details ( if he has them ).

 

Vaz.

[MARTIN3030]

Its in their interest really,since it could impact on future supply requirements.