Employment Appeal Tribunal Oral hearing help needed

[billybobyeeharrboy]

Hi All,

 

I have a friend who has just found out she has dyslexia and was bullied out of her job, when she was making mistakes in her job, compiling data on a computer, for financial reporting (none of the mistakes were serious enough to warrant anything formal)

 

I just wanted to know one thing; if the company did not have any knowledge of her dyslexia can they still be guilty of discriminating against her?

 

Regards

 

BB

[Emmzzi]

No.

 

And, dyslexia in itself may not be a disability; it depends on the severity.

[billybobyeeharrboy]

Hi Emmzzi,

 

just to clarify, that's a 'no'....the co. cannot be guilty of discrimination? could you elaborate please?

 

Regards

[Emmzzi]

How can they discriminate if they have no knowledge it is not a condition as opposed to say carelessness? Discrimination is actions taken or not taken because of the existence of a protected characteristic (like race or disability). If they don't know, there can't be discrimination. Also most dyslexia is not severe enough to be regarded as a disability in the eyes of the law although many employers, if they are told about the condition, will work with people to make adjustments.

 

You cannot persecute an organisation for not being pyschic. If you want the protection of the law, there is an onus upon you to say why. It's like me saying "you sacked me because I am pregnant!" when I am 4 weeks gone and no one knows.

 

I am assuming here that when your friend was pulled up for errors they chose not to disclose their condition. Is that right?

[billybobyeeharrboy]

"I am assuming here that when your friend was pulled up for errors they chose not to disclose their condition. Is that right?"

 

Hi i response to your last post yes they would have disclosed however they had not found out till much later on after leaving their job, so thats not really an issue.

 

Discrimination is discrimination period, whether embarrassment, harrasment or bullying, some people will choose to see it and some won't...depends if you are a ET judge and employer or employee?

 

Yes the onus is on the employee, even if they can prove the disability for whatever reasons they may be the up against an ET judge who can choose to turn a blind eye to any 'alleged' discrimination, so "protection of the the law" is a bit of an abstract concept.

 

Sorry this post is very general, I don't know the full set of facts so am not able to put you in the immediate picture.

 

Regards

BB

[Emmzzi]

You are claiming discrimination. There is none, by the current legal definitions.

 

That is not to say there was no bullying. That is a different matter entirely. Proving it, however, may be near impossible unless she has witness staements. Also ETs don't take "pulled up for errors" as bullying - there has to be more to it than that.

[billybobyeeharrboy]

you are right there,

 

I would have thought dyslexia would be covered though:

 

"Subject to the provisions of Schedule 1, a person has a disability for the purposes of this Act if he has a physical or mental impairment which has a substantial and long-term adverse effect on his ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities." Excerpt from DDA now equalities act.

 

A long term impairment could be dyslexia as it effects day to day activites?

[Emmzzi]

Could be, not guaranteed to be, unlikely to be if diagnosed late in life and able to hold down job. (Does it meet the "substantial" criteria? Debatable, would need medical assessment to determine, I certainly can't on a forum from a one line description).

 

It is the impact on life that matters, not having a named condition. Also it's academic as employer was not told!

 

I think you may be straw grasping. You can debate it if you like but there is a fundamental failure to give the employer the chance to make adjustments. They CANNOT be held liable for what they did not know! That would be fundamentally unfair.

[billybobyeeharrboy]

Hi,

 

just reposting this so I don't have to Hijack Lindy's post.

 

Just wondering what people think of this blatant disregard for data protection/ confidentiality when handling sensitive information/ medical reports.

 

Sincerely

 

BB

boc .pdf

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

How many people knew about the medical problem please?

 

My best, HB

[Emmzzi]

That it is appalling. IMHO best practice would be to say "X, you are asking for time off for appointments and for a 4 day week. We'll need to discuss this with people you work with. How do you want me to handle that?"

 

Once the cat is out of the bag you can't put it back in though. Never seen it resolved well!

[billybobyeeharrboy]

Hi Emzzi,

 

I expressly stated the report was supposed to go to one person in the organisation and one person only. I cant say how many people in the company knew about the report/ condition. My initial worry was that all the staff in the company would know of personal circumstances which were meant to be kept private!

 

what do you mean by: "Once the cat is out of the bag you can't put it back in though." please elaborate

 

sincerely

 

BB

[Emmzzi]

Once people have been told, you cannot untell them. Which limits your possible remedies, as you cannot wipe their brains! So you need to be clear what action you think is reasonable now if you are raising a greivance - how could things be made better for you? I have never worked that one out.

[billybobyeeharrboy]

hi emmzzi

 

What remedies are available, I suppose compensation is the only route?

 

Regards

[becky2585]

Actually, the above advice isn't entirely correct.

 

Disability Discrimination occurs when an employer knows, or ought reasonably to have known, the person suffered a disability. Therefore, there could be an arguable case if she can a) prove she had a disability at the material time, and b) show her employer dismissed her without adequate investigation into the cause of the mistakes.

 

She would be heavily criticised for not raising it with her employer, however, so she will need a good argument as to why she didn't do so.

[Emmzzi]

And to show her dyslexia was so severe a reasonable employer would have investigated. Which, given she made only a few errors, does not appear to be the case.

[billybobyeeharrboy]

Hi there caggers

 

1) Is it allowed on this site for me to post a redacted version of the Employment tribunal judgement? I would like to know people's opinions on where the judge erred on a point of law in my own case for breaches of DDA and unfair constructive dismissal

 

It runs about 15 pages of which 3 are very relevant!!!

 

Thx

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Ok yes but please be sure that all names case numbers and such

like are removed.

[billybobyeeharrboy]

Hi Caggers,

 

Quick background info: I have had my ET hearing back in March, in relation to disability discrimination and constructive unfair dismissal. The hearing was a complete joke, farce whatever one calls it. My counsel was absolutely useless and trashed my case completely. It was so frustrating as I knew that I could have done a much better job myself, better then the so-called barrister. The decision from the ET judge did not say any more than to dismiss that any discrimination ever took place, in spite of numerous very important documents and emails which were not mentioned in the court, despite having them included in my witness statement.

 

So I submitted my case for Appeal and this was declined, with no real substantial reasons. So now I am in the predicament of representing myself in-front of the EAT judge in an oral hearing (date to be decided by EAT London- within a 6 month time frame at the latest).

 

I urgently need some help with any advice on the following 2 page document enclosed.

 

It is particularly pertinent as I am now handling my case myself

 

I really hope some Caggers will be able to draw upon their experience, as I submit bundles to the tribunal by 4pm 29 August 2012.

 

All the best

 

Billy

08 aug employment tribunal_Redacted.pdf

Edited August 12, 2012 by billybobyeeharrboy

[billybobyeeharrboy]

Hi All,

 

after the ET judgement, what other then the Decision can be obtained from the Employment tribunal as to how the judge reached the decision.

 

I was advised that the judges keep hand written notes which can be noted verbatim depending on the residing judge. If so I would like to request these from the original ET hearing to Strengthen my appeal case.

 

Hope someone can advise

 

Best regards

 

BB

[mariefab]

Do you intend to appeal the ET judgement?

[becky2585]

All that you can really ask for is a written judgment, if you haven't got one already.

[mariefab]

(Note to self - read the OP.)

 

If the written ET judgement has either inadequate or no reasons for the decision the EAT can use the Burns/Barke procedure to require the ET to provide fuller reasons.

You can't ask the ET for these yourself but, if you can't tell why you lost from reading the ET's written judgement, I don't see why you couldn't request that the EAT consider using the procedure.

[becky2585]

(Note to self - read the OP.)

 

If the written ET judgement has either inadequate or no reasons for the decision the EAT can use the Burns/Barke procedure to require the ET to provide fuller reasons.

You can't ask the ET for these yourself but, if you can't tell why you lost from reading the ET's written judgement, I don't see why you couldn't request that the EAT consider using the procedure.

 

It's not clear whether there is a written judgment yet it could be that only a verbal judgment was given, or a one page order, with written reasons to follow.... Which, unfortunately, can take weeks, but it does provide full reasoning.

Edited August 22, 2012 by becky2585

[mariefab]

Thanks for that becky. I incorrectly assumed that all judgments would always be in writing.

 

Can I ask you about what happens regarding time limits when someone wants to appeal?

Does the time limit to appeal start from when the verbal judgment, or one page order, is given?

Or, is it from when the full written reasons are sent/received?