Disciplinary in the work place.

[ajones456]

So I messed up recently, big time. I impersonated a customer to write a complaint to senior management. I was interviewed and they said they had my IP address (I now believe they didn't) but the main thing was I confessed.

 

I think it's likely I'll go to a Disciplinary Hearing but I was wondering about my rights. I was told as part of my suspension I cannot talk to colleagues at all, but how can I gather evidence - will I be given an opportunity to do so before the hearing?

 

Will the fact they probably made up the evidence help my case?

 

Am I within my rights to request all other materials related to the matter (such as other interviews conducted) to help build a case?

 

Can I take in a member of the team to the hearing to confirm or deny everything that I am saying and does my employer have the right to refuse that they can go?

 

Joining a union is a no-go where I work, while they don't say you can't any mention of it and you are instantly managed out (i.e your targets cannot slip up e.t.c) so I feel as though I am on my own - I realise I messed up bad, even admitting to the managers that it was not a malicious attack on the person just an attack on the way to store operates (long back story to that, that I wont bore you with)

 

Any help is appreciated.

 

Thanks.

[Emmzzi]

you did it. What do you need witnesses for? what case do you think you have, having said "I did it?"

 

if you have an issue with someone you have an informal chat then a grievance if that doesn't fix it. You can still do that.

 

I'm guessing the disciplinary is for something like impersonating a customer leading to breakdown of trust. That is not the same as what your greivance is for? That is the way I would go if I were your employer, anyway. Clear cut, no muddying of the waters.

 

Also be aware most unions will not represent you for things that happened before you joined them.

 

Standard advice: humble apologies, now seen the light, will never do it again. No arguing the toss, it won't get you anywhere, because I think the case will be solely about impersonating a customer.

[ajones456]

I wasn't asking for a witnesses to what I did, it was more for the reason I did it, this person treats everyone like dirt, but also the management team DO NOT deal with complaints, so that's the reason why I did it. I don't deny what I did was wrong but I wanted to be able to state my case for the reason as to why I did it.

[Emmzzi]

I'm not sure it matters why you did it unless you had exhausted all other paths.

 

Had you raised a grievance?

[ajones456]

I reported things to line managers as per procedure and as did others and nothing was done about it - colleagues were even told that this person wouldn't do what they are accusing the person of doing, despite having documented proof that they did - again nothing was done. The whole office agrees there is a favoritism towards this person.

[Emmzzi]

Yes, but did you raise a formal, in writing, grievance?

[ajones456]

No I didn't - since people that have done in the past have been managed out - if you go against the grain in any way, you're gone.

[Emmzzi]

Thing is, as an employee, you don't get to decide either the process or the standards. "I didn't think you would take my grievance seriously" does not cut it.

 

Wait and see what the "charge" is but if the environment is as you describe

a) you've shot yourself in the foot and

b) you'll be happier elsewhere

 

If you want to stay, I would apologise, and mean it.

[Emmzzi]

PS can you see how essentially "I circumvented process because I think management is incompetent", which is basically your defence, is not going to endear you to said management?

[ajones456]

I get that, but surely going in with "Its not just me its the whole office that agrees, I just did something about it" is a better argument than a personal vendetta. I still haven't heard any decision on the hearing, I was just wondering what my rights are, regardless of my defense.

[Emmzzi]

Well, others may disagree with me. I think straight apology is your only hope. If I were your boss I'd be livid!!

 

Rights: limited. No accompaniement at investigatory interviews. Employee or TU companion at actual disciplinary. Notice in writing. etc. Have a look at the ACAS web site for full info.

[Marianne7]

Re: your post #10: I think management may well say "you cannot speak for others, and we've had no complaint from them". If my experience is anything to go by, you find that all these colleagues who agree with you now, and feel the same, will suddenly find reasons not to support you, usually because they are afraid for their jobs, understandable but frustrating.

[stu007]

Hi

 

You need to bear in mind what you did was break company policies, broke customer confidentiality, broke data protection act and trust and confidence of the employer by falseifying customers details of a formal complaint and it seems your reason for doing so was a personal judgement and an incorrect judgement.

 

Yes you have admitted this and all i think you can do is appoligise as the issue you have with this individualis your own issue and if that bad you should have followed correct procedures and put a grievance in.

 

What you have done and the issue you have with this individual are actually two completely seperate issues and the way you went about it wrong as I say all you can really do is appoligise for your actions.

[ajones456]

I just got the information through the post, they are classing it as victimisation, thus gross misconduct. I have a few concerns over this and was wondering where I stand.

 

1. While I did create a fake customer the complaint was real, I have a witness (who is coming with me) that can verify the complaint - can you be victimised against something that is truthful?

2. In my statement and the other three witness statements there was a third party involved, in the original complaint there was no third party, just the complainant and the office manager who acted as the note taker, then asked myself and the witnesses questions while there was an independent note taker - is this allowed?

[Emmzzi]

1. Yes.what is not truthful is the customer wanting to complain by email. You have made the complaint look more important than it was. Victimization ? Fair call.

 

2. Yes. Investigatory interview with some or no witnesses is OK. Or I think that is the question you are asking?

[ajones456]

1. I didn't over exaguarate the complaint, I did it this way because I felt I couldn't go through the proper channels. Personally I feel as thought the complaint is genuine, surely the issue is I did not follow the complaints procadure correctly.

 

2. No, not entirely. In my statement and in the other witnesses there was a note taker. In the complaint there was not, therefore there is no one to verify that the Office Manager did not tell the complainant what to write, the same office manager then came and asked us but when he spoke to us there was a note taker.

[assisted blonde]

To be quite blunt, you did wrong reguardless of the reasons why, company have discovered this and looking at dismissal. You know you did wrong and are looking for ways to at least get an unfair dismissal for not following procedure from the company.

All you can do IMO is apologise and see what happens rather than get yourself tied up in knots over procedures because I am not sure that you really have any defense for what you did.

Sorry

[Emmzzi]

Justify it all you like. I personally would be looking for any way to dismiss. I see nothing illegal or out of process in what they are doing. Any mitigating factors would be offset by your total lack of remorse. but you know. you know best.

[ajones456]

I feel remorse and even apologised in my statement so that should negate the victimisation side. It was not and I expressly made this clear, an attack on her. I do feel sorry that she went through what she went through

[stu007]

Hi

 

You are still doing the same with this even with disciplinary over your head you need to seperate these two issues the false complaint irrespective of what you wrote was actually correct you falsified the complaint.

 

In the disciplinary if you bring up your issue with this other individual i am afraid you will probably be stopped in your track by whoever chairs the meeting as that is actually nothing to do with the disciplinary and the gross misconduct you are now facing and you will probably be told you should have raised a grievance which to date you havent.

 

You really need to seperate the two issues otherwise you will get no where and if what this individual done is that serious put a grievance in which is what you should have don rather than the action you took.

 

I would also be prepared for the worst case scenario i.e. Dismissal.

[Emmzzi]

I feel remorse and even apologised in my statement so that should negate the victimisation side. It was not and I expressly made this clear, an attack on her. I do feel sorry that she went through what she went through

 

If you feel remorse you need to work harder on showing it. You know. Like apologising in person. And swearing never to do it again.

 

I'm not really feeling it. You still think you were justified. That's not going to keep you in employment.

[ajones456]

I don't think I'm explaining fully, sorry.

 

I have done nothing to Justify it in my statement, I apologised to the person (wasn't given a chance to do it formally) and apologised to the managers, they asked me if I regretted it, I told them I absolutely do. I was only asking about trying to justify it on here, as far as my statement goes I regret everything (which is correct)

 

So it seems my plan of action for tomorrow is:

Apologise, apologise and apologise once more

Make clear it was never against her, nor was it meant to single her out

Show that I had a good working relationship with her

 

Then take it from there - no justification?

[Emmzzi]

That would be my plan. You do of course have to go with what you believe to be best, and I cannot guarantee it will work - but it'd be what I consider your best shot.

 

Very good luck. Keep us posted.

[markl1987]

Good luck! Hope it goes well

[ajones456]

Also if I bring a colleague along can they give evidence as to my character (i,e how hard I work in the office?) or are they purely there to take notes and for moral support?

 

Currently the colleague I want to take is scheduled to be in work until after my hearing finishes, does the company have to make arrangements for her to go? i.e Change the rota / Let her go early?