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poplin599

Contractual dispute regarding length of notice period.

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Hi all,

 

A bit of a long post below so apologies! Please do bear with me!

 

Basically, I think my employer might be trying to get out of giving me my full contractual notice entitlement, however I am not sure. The bottom line is, I think if am entitled to something, then they should be fair and pay it.

 

I think I could be entitled to 2 months payment in lieu of notice rather than a week’s payment in lieu of notice based on the following:

 

- My initial employment offer letter stated that my probation period was 3 months long and that the required notice in regard to termination of employment was 2 months, after the probation period expired. During the probation period the required notice was one week. (Please see picture LINK: http://tinyurl.com/termnotice-A ).

 

- Page 12 of the principal terms and conditions of my employment dispute this ( please see LINK: http://tinyurl.com/termnotice-P12 ), saying that confirmation of employment from the HR director is necessary for the 2 months notice period to apply, but on page 2 of my principal terms and conditions it says the offer letter prevails in a dispute between the offer letter and the terms ( http://tinyurl.com/termnotice-P2 ).

 

- My probation was extended to roughly 6 months ending on 5 July 2012. The letter at B below ( http://tinyurl.com/termnotice-B ) says that during this period (not after) notice period on employment termination remains at one week.

 

- My employment was terminated on 11 July 2012, after the extended probation period had ended. I think it was due to be terminated on the 6 July 2012 but was delayed.

 

Per the initial offer letter ( http://tinyurl.com/termnotice-A ) which states that after the initial probation period the applicable notice period is 2 months, I think the notice my employer should have given me, in regard to the termination of my contract would be 2 months, and that I should get 2 months notice pay, as my termination was after the extended probation period had ended.

 

What do you think? Relevant document images are included as links below.

 

It’s a long post thanks so much for reading and your time, any help is very much appreciated! Am pulling my hair out here!

 

 

 

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Links / Appendices:

 

A: Extract from my initial offer letter detailing notice periods. Employment began on 9-Jan 2012.

LINK: http://tinyurl.com/termnotice-A

 

B: Letter extending probation period to 5-July of this year.

LINK: http://tinyurl.com/termnotice-B

My employment was terminated on 11-July, after the probation period had ended. It was due to be terminated on the 6-July but was delayed.

 

C: Please find below links to images of the terms and conditions of my employment. (The first linked page states that offer letter will prevail in the event there is a discrepancy between it and the terms and conditions).

 

Further image links:

 

LINK: http://tinyurl.com/termnotice-P2

LINK: http://tinyurl.com/termnotice-P3

LINK: http://tinyurl.com/termnotice-P4

LINK: http://tinyurl.com/termnotice-P5

LINK: http://tinyurl.com/termnotice-P6

LINK: http://tinyurl.com/termnotice-P7

LINK: http://tinyurl.com/termnotice-P8

LINK: http://tinyurl.com/termnotice-P9

LINK: http://tinyurl.com/termnotice-P10

 

T+C’s page 10 says notice only 2m after confirmation, however I would dispute this based on offer letter, which says notice changes without mentioning any confirmations required. T+C’s state offer letter prevails over T+C’s in a dispute.

 

LINK: http://tinyurl.com/termnotice-P11

LINK: http://tinyurl.com/termnotice-P12

LINK: http://tinyurl.com/termnotice-P13

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Why was the termination delayed?


If I have been of any help, please click on my star and let me know, thank you.

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Hello there.

 

It might be worth a call to the ACAS helpline for their take on this.

 

My best, HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Hi guys

 

Thanks for your advice honeybee13, calling Acas is very high up on my to do list.

 

Hi assisted blonde, I was provided with a revised date from the original meeting date, I just went. I'm not sure if they were up to something!

 

Many thanks

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Hi Poplin,

 

I have been to an ET and won for someone on this exact point. The case is Przybylska v Modus Telecom Limited

 

I have not read your links yet, but do come back, if what you say in the OP about what your contractual documents state you could be on a winner, no length of service needed easy, easy, breach of contract claim.

 

Che


...................................................................... [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Please post on a thread before sending a PM. My opinion's are not expressed as agent or representative of The Consumer Action Group. Always seek professional advice from a qualified legal adviser before acting. If I have helped you please feel free to click on the black star.[/FONT] [FONT=Comic Sans MS] I am sorry that work means I don't get into the Employment Forum as often as I would like these days, but nonetheless I'll try to pop in when I can.[/FONT] [FONT=Arial Black][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=Red]'Venceremos' :wink:[/COLOR][/FONT][/FONT]

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Hi all,

T+C’s state offer letter prevails over T+C’s in a dispute.

 

No, not so sure about that, this clause (21.2) seems to say that in the event of dispute re contents of employee handbook and SMT or offer letter, either offer letter OR SMT will prevail ........ no??

 

But I still like your claim more than theirs. There seems to be conflict between the offer letter, the extend probation letter, and the SMT, and the common law principle of contra proferentem gives you a massive advantage in this area.

 

How many people do they employ?

 

Che

Edited by elche

...................................................................... [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Please post on a thread before sending a PM. My opinion's are not expressed as agent or representative of The Consumer Action Group. Always seek professional advice from a qualified legal adviser before acting. If I have helped you please feel free to click on the black star.[/FONT] [FONT=Comic Sans MS] I am sorry that work means I don't get into the Employment Forum as often as I would like these days, but nonetheless I'll try to pop in when I can.[/FONT] [FONT=Arial Black][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=Red]'Venceremos' :wink:[/COLOR][/FONT][/FONT]

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Hi elche, thanks so much for responding!

 

Che, I would have thought 21.2 would only kick in if there was a dispute between the handbook and SMT and then, the offer letter or SMT would prevail over the Handbook. I guess I will need to get a copy of the handbook if I can, just to see what it says!

 

Hmm, I am not sure how many this firm employ in total, but in my department there were about 20 people.

 

Che Thankyou! Further comments very much appreciated!

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Che, I would have thought 21.2 would only kick in if there was a dispute between the handbook and SMT and then, the offer letter or SMT would prevail over the Handbook. I guess I will need to get a copy of the handbook if I can, just to see what it says!

 

I think you should ask for a copy of the employee handbook, but I was merely pointing out how I read 21.2. You cannot be bound by clauses in the handbook if you were never given it, and in any event it would appear for your claim the relevant documents are the offer letter, the extend probation letter and the T & C's (contract of employment), and as you have pointed out the offer letter and extend probation letter say nothing about having to have the probation confirmed.

 

Can I ask, when this happened, and the chronology i.e. what date were you given the T & C's?

 

Che


...................................................................... [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Please post on a thread before sending a PM. My opinion's are not expressed as agent or representative of The Consumer Action Group. Always seek professional advice from a qualified legal adviser before acting. If I have helped you please feel free to click on the black star.[/FONT] [FONT=Comic Sans MS] I am sorry that work means I don't get into the Employment Forum as often as I would like these days, but nonetheless I'll try to pop in when I can.[/FONT] [FONT=Arial Black][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=Red]'Venceremos' :wink:[/COLOR][/FONT][/FONT]

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Hi Che (oh and hi all)

 

Here’s a rough but pretty accurate Chronology:

 

Offer letter - Dec 2011

Job start - Jan 2012

Extension of probation - April 2012

Delivery of SMT - May 2012

Termination - July 2012 (For minor pointless reasons, some reasons given were inaccurate as well! Another breach of contract?)

 

Che, what are you thinking?

 

Many thanks and very kindest regards,

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Che, what are you thinking?

 

There is one small difference between your case and the previous case I dealt with on this point.

 

In the prior case the respondent was trying to argue that there was an implied contractual term that the employee had to have the probation period actually confirmed.

 

In your case there is an express contractual term in the SMT regarding this, and this was the last contractual document given so potentially they could argue that once the SMT was issued as this was the last document given it overrides any prior contractual terms.

 

I shall give this more thought, and come back as I am busy right now.

 

Did you sign the SMT or was it just sent to you?

 

Che


...................................................................... [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Please post on a thread before sending a PM. My opinion's are not expressed as agent or representative of The Consumer Action Group. Always seek professional advice from a qualified legal adviser before acting. If I have helped you please feel free to click on the black star.[/FONT] [FONT=Comic Sans MS] I am sorry that work means I don't get into the Employment Forum as often as I would like these days, but nonetheless I'll try to pop in when I can.[/FONT] [FONT=Arial Black][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=Red]'Venceremos' :wink:[/COLOR][/FONT][/FONT]

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But I also note that the SMT does clearly state where there is any dispute regarding terms the offer letter shall prevail (page 2).

 

Hmmmmm................ food for thought....


...................................................................... [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Please post on a thread before sending a PM. My opinion's are not expressed as agent or representative of The Consumer Action Group. Always seek professional advice from a qualified legal adviser before acting. If I have helped you please feel free to click on the black star.[/FONT] [FONT=Comic Sans MS] I am sorry that work means I don't get into the Employment Forum as often as I would like these days, but nonetheless I'll try to pop in when I can.[/FONT] [FONT=Arial Black][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=Red]'Venceremos' :wink:[/COLOR][/FONT][/FONT]

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Ah I see where you are coming from, yes I did sign it and I sent it back to them.

 

What you note is definately what I am arguing. The offer letter prevails, and it says after the probation period ends the notice period is two months. My contract was terminated nearly a week after the extended probabtion period ended.

 

Also the letter advising of the extention of the probabtion period says notice is a week *during* the probabtion period.

 

Do you think this + the contra proferentem advantage you mentioned would be enought to argue it sucessfully at tribunal? Especially taking account of point 19.3 in the SMT?

 

Thanks so much for the help Che!

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I think it's 50 / 50, with perhaps you ahead.

 

How big are the company, I always love the argument, "And the Respondent, whose company turnover last year was xx million pounds, expects us to believe this was a simple oversight on their part! And with all their resources meaning a vast inequalityof bargaining power when the contracts were negotiated, why should contra proferentem not apply in its strictest sense?"

 

If you see where that would go ......

 

Shame you signed and returned the SMT!

 

What part of the country were you employed in?

 

Che


...................................................................... [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Please post on a thread before sending a PM. My opinion's are not expressed as agent or representative of The Consumer Action Group. Always seek professional advice from a qualified legal adviser before acting. If I have helped you please feel free to click on the black star.[/FONT] [FONT=Comic Sans MS] I am sorry that work means I don't get into the Employment Forum as often as I would like these days, but nonetheless I'll try to pop in when I can.[/FONT] [FONT=Arial Black][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=Red]'Venceremos' :wink:[/COLOR][/FONT][/FONT]

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Hi Che the company is in london where I am. where are you based? hopefully in london too!?

 

The turnover of the company was about £30m. Yes! with all those resources they should be able to do a watertight contract. If they cant be bothered they should feel the full force of the consequences of their laziness. The company is a sneaky company!

 

Thanks!

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