Box Junction PCN - New Kings Road j/w Bagleys Lane AGAIN!!!

[trouttrout]

Hello there! Similar issue to other threads. Googled my situation as I always do for this kind of thing and low and behold!!!! Find all this! And that figure stating how much the area makes the council in fines is truly shocking!

 

Anyway, few images here to see if I have grounds for appeal! From what I make of it the bus was still moving at 14 seconds when I entered and then stops at 16 seconds resulting in me having to stop also. The right handle lane is empty but I'm saying the bus is too far over for me to enter that lane as my exit? Surely we can't be expected to wait for the vehicle in front to completely clear the box junction before entering?! We would get nowhere! Bus is clearly moving when I enter. If the bus wasn't moving then I wouldn't have entered, simple as that as I know not to. It's not like I've seen it stationary there and driven in regardless like some idiot! I would have no issue if that was what I had done. It was my first time driving in London too, and didn't know traffic at the junction moved quite so ****e!

 

Any help much appreciated.

 

NB There's a 6th pic that won't upload at 37 seconds showing me outside of the box.

 

Cheers guys!

 

 

 

 

 

[crem]

From the pics you have shown, the 2 buses appear to be stationary throughtout, so at the moment, I could see no justification for you entering the box. i.e. you could already see that your exit was not clear so should have remained at the far side of the box until the exit cleared.

[trouttrout]

Picture one shows the bus with it's rear wheels on the yellow line, picture 2 shows it's rear wheels are clear of the yellow line?! If that's the case then I enter when the bus is moving. Surely?!

 

From the pics you have shown, the 2 buses appear to be stationary throughtout, so at the moment, I could see no justification for you entering the box. i.e. you could already see that your exit was not clear so should have remained at the far side of the box until the exit cleared.

[crem]

Picture one shows the bus with it's rear wheels on the yellow line, picture 2 shows it's rear wheels are clear of the yellow line?! If that's the case then I enter when the bus is moving. Surely?!

 

OK, he was "moving" inch by inch it would seem.

The bus may have moved about 4ft in the 2 seconds between pic1 and pic2. Speed can be calculated as 1.5ft per second per mph.

 

4ft in 2 seconds = 2ft in 1 second. divide by 1.5 =1.33mph.

 

I'd class 1.33mph as pretty much stationary for the purpose of a YBJ and would not want to enter it till I saw some more movement than that, but if you think an appeal is worth it, go for it.

[trouttrout]

Yeah that's pretty slow and I don't understand why I would have entered if that were the case. That's why I tend to think that the bus was stopped and I wasn't in the box (because I'm a fair way behind it) then the bus started moving so I enter the box thinking we are all engines go and nope, it stops again.

 

OK, he was "moving" inch by inch it would seem.

The bus may have moved about 4ft in the 2 seconds between pic1 and pic2. Speed can be calculated as 1.5ft per second per mph.

 

4ft in 2 seconds = 2ft in 1 second. divide by 1.5 =1.33mph.

 

I'd class 1.33mph as pretty much stationary for the purpose of a YBJ and would not want to enter it till I saw some more movement than that, but if you think an appeal is worth it, go for it.

[crem]

The only way of reviewing that situation properly would be to view the actual CCTV footage rather than just looking at the still photos they have sent you. The footage may support your argument that the bus appeared to have moved again after stopping, then stoped again. I am still fairly sceptical that for how solid the traffic appears to have been that you should ever have been suckered into following the bus given the little movement he seems to have been able to make.

[trouttrout]

Yeah I think you're right. I have read elsewhere on here that the lights the other end of the section in front of the bus stay green for about 5 seconds! So that could explaint it. I wouldn't have been able to see those lights either. And there's no way I'm going back to that **** hole to view some CCTV. Just see what they say to my written appeal. If they say no I'll pay it, worth a shot. Will update.

 

The only way of reviewing that situation properly would be to view the actual CCTV footage rather than just looking at the still photos they have sent you. The footage may support your argument that the bus appeared to have moved again after stopping, then stoped again. I am still fairly sceptical that for how solid the traffic appears to have been that you should ever have been suckered into following the bus given the little movement he seems to have been able to make.

[crem]

YAnd there's no way I'm going back to that **** hole to view some CCTV.

 

Sometimes it is possible to view the CCTV footage on the internet using a link code the council may be able to give you. Worth asking them. If not, I think you can ask for a copy to be sent to you.

[trouttrout]

Cheers for the info.

[HP Mum]

Either I or the owner of the car I was driving got caught in this junction - only I keep the car and the post goes to the owners old address and so I had no knowledge of a pcn being issued. I was stopped randomly and ended up having to pay almost 600 ! More than a year's worth of fine and interest. If I had not paid the bailiffs at the road side would have inpounded the car....

eek.

[trouttrout]

Appeal sent anyway. They are currently dealing with a high volume of appeals! No wonder if you have rip off box junctions!

[bobfromlondon]

I recently beat the council on this junction, and in the process found out quite a lot about this junction. The following link shows that there are three different documents all purporting to be the authority for this junction. http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=71696.

 

However for those people who want a less technical and legal argument, go to the PATAS website and use the "Register of Appeals". Then click 'search' under the blue P for Parking sign. This brings up a Statutory registry Query with yellow fields.

 

In the filed for 'Date of decision' near the bottom go back a few months. The longer the better.

In 'Local authority' choose Hammersmith and Fulham.

And in 'Decision' choose 'Allowed'.

 

Click search and work your way forward through the dates to find the location, in this case Bagleys lane, and look at the Adjudicator's reasoning. This gives a clear indication of the number of cases H&F lose and also the best way to frame your argument. the adjudicators are busiry people and this will help you get to the point. You may also gather a list of similar cases to persuade your Adjudicator.