Bristow & Sutor - my debt but "Seized" my husbands car

[old bill]

This is correct. In regard to a parked car, it is the last person who had control of the car I.E the driver.

 

However, I do believe in the legislation, where it is not possible to find out who the driver was, they can issue the PCN against the registered keeper and they will need to respond to the PCN to confirm who was driving. In this case, I believe the car had been sold and they don't know the name of the person they sold it to. If this is the case, they may be required to pay the PCN, because they don't have the info. And we all thought you were innoncent until proven guilty and not the other way around.

 

Unless I am very much mistaken, there is a facility on the TEC forms to inform TEC of such an anomaly. DVLA will have to disclose the name of the new owner as the OP has legitimate reason to require the details. They can either pay a small fee to DVLA or use Section 35, Data Protection Act 1998 to obtain the necessary details.

 

If someone commits a moving traffic offence in your car, say, speeding, the police will send a notice to provide details of driver at time of offence to the registered owner/keeper who then has to complete the pro-forma disclose who was driving.

 

In my considered judgement, the local authority in the OP's case are behaving like tits and I would not be surprised if Capita are running the Parking Enforcement Office - the modus operandi is very familiar: Totally clueless and BS if they don't know the answer.

[Jamberson]

This is not a motoring offence. It is not a criminal offence at all.

 

A PCN is issued to the VEHICLE. No-one, not the CEO nor the council, nor the bailiff knows or cares who was driving.

 

If the PCN is unpaid, the council sends off to DVLA to find out who the registered keeper is. They automatically consider that person to be the OWNER. They then send out a Notice to OWNER, to the person they believe to be the OWNER, who is liable unless they can contest liability. One of the grounds is that they were not the OWNER at the time.

Edited August 6, 2012 by Jamberson

[Jamberson]

OK. This is from the Traffic Penalty Tribunal website. Hopefully this will put the issue to bed before this thread spirals out of control like to many before:

 

 

Under The Road Traffic Act 1991, The Bus Lane Contraventions (Penalty Charges, Adjudication and Enforcement) (England) Regulations 2005, and The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General Regulations 2007 and The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (General Provisions) ( Wales ) Regulations 2008 the person who is liable to pay any penalty issued in respect of a vehicle is its owner.

 

The owner may or may not be the person who was actually driving at the time. The fact that another person was driving the vehicle does not affect the owner's liability for any penalty.

 

Ownership

 

The owner is presumed to be the registered keeper unless they prove otherwise. The council will check with the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Authority (DVLA) in Swansea to see who was registered as keeper of the vehicle at the date the penalty was issued. This person will receive the Notice to Owner.

 

 

This is this particular source: http://www.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?documentID=77

[lamma]

For a regulation 9 PCN the 'owne'r is not engaged until the NTO. In fact many TRO make the driver liable at the pre-NTO stage. Council being councils will of course take money from anyone. Whosoever gets the PCN stuck in the car can go and pay it that day if they are so inclined. Regulation 10s and moving contravention PCNs go straight to the person appearing to be the owner. It is just the administrative process.

[Jamberson]

In fact many TRO make the driver liable at the pre-NTO stage.

 

The driver is never at any stage liable for a parking PCN. No-one has the slightest idea who parked the car. Can we just accept that and move on.

 

Yes, anyone can pay it if they feel so inclined.

[old bill]

OK. This is from the Traffic Penalty Tribunal website. Hopefully this will put the issue to bed before this thread spirals out of control like to many before:

 

 

Under The Road Traffic Act 1991, The Bus Lane Contraventions (Penalty Charges, Adjudication and Enforcement) (England) Regulations 2005, and The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General Regulations 2007 and The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (General Provisions) ( Wales ) Regulations 2008 the person who is liable to pay any penalty issued in respect of a vehicle is its owner.

 

The owner may or may not be the person who was actually driving at the time. The fact that another person was driving the vehicle does not affect the owner's liability for any penalty.

 

Ownership

 

The owner is presumed to be the registered keeper unless they prove otherwise. The council will check with the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Authority (DVLA) in Swansea to see who was registered as keeper of the vehicle at the date the penalty was issued. This person will receive the Notice to Owner.

 

 

This is this particular source: http://www.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?documentID=77

 

In which case, the OP needs to submit an OOT Stat. Dec. and a swift kick up the backside to Simon Tse.

[Jamberson]

On which of the specified grounds should it be filed, Old Bill?

[old bill]

How about representations to local authority and no rejection notice received? Then again, if Capita is running the show for the LA concerned, it's likely procedures were side-stepped. That is part of Capita's modus operandi.

[Jamberson]

How about representations to local authority and no rejection notice received? Then again, if Capita is running the show for the LA concerned, it's likely procedures were side-stepped. That is part of Capita's modus operandi.

 

Fine. So you know for a fact that the OP received a Notice to Owner, and that they responded to it in writing within 28 days, and that the Local authority failed to mail out a response? No, you don't know any of that, do you?

 

That was the point of my question at the end of post 22, and when the OP answers it, I will be able to say whether they have any grounds to file one, and whether it is likely to be accepted.

 

We need an answer to the question. Please will people stop throwing out advice before they are acquainted with the facts.

[old bill]

Now, now, Jamberson. Be nice. Lol!

[lamma]

The driver is never at any stage liable for a parking PCN. No-one has the slightest idea who parked the car. Can we just accept that and move on.

 

Yes, anyone can pay it if they feel so inclined.

 

The driver does. For a regulation 9 TMA PCN liability to the person appearing to be the owner only crystalises in law at the NTO. The regs are clear (look at what reg 9 PCN has to say) and as I said TROs can do oft times do assign driver liability at the PCN stage. But yes lets move back to the case in hand.