Santander/Moorcroft

[Mrs E Blackadder]

Hi Brig, hope you are around and about and can cast a beady-eye over the long awaited reply from satans. Here goes:

 

Ref: 123abcxyz

 

Dear Mrs Blackadder

 

I write further to your recent letter of which the contents have been noted.

 

My understanding of your complaint is that you are unhappy as since receiving my colleague's response you have checked your credit file and you state that the default notice has yet again been reinstated and this time to show the date of the 13 april 2013.

 

I have investigated fully your case and it is clear that the level of service you have received has fallen well below the standard that you have every right to expect and for this I am very sorry. Please be assured that we do take the issue of customer service very seriously indeed at satans bank and I am therefore disappointed to hear of your experiences.

 

Had we handled your enquiry in an appropriate manner matters would not have become so unnecessarily protracted and caused you such inconvenience, please accept my sincere personal apologies for any inconvenience caused.

 

Due to an administration error the default notice was not removed correctly. I can confirm I have been informed by the relevant area of the business that your credit file has been amended, please allow 14 days before checking this with the credit reference agencies.

 

Your comment that you believe your account is now statute barred has been noted. I accept that the default on your account has expired, however you still remain liable for the debt. Whilst we will not pursue you for the balance we reserve the right to sell the debt to an external agent.

 

Your concern that you did not receive your SAR has been noted. Please accept my personal apologies for any distress that may have caused. I can assure you this was never our intention. I appreciate you taking time to make me aware of this and will forward your comments to the relevant area of the business to make them aware of the poor impression they have created. I have been informed by our data protection team further information was sent to you on 8 June.

 

 

By way of an apology I have arranged for a cheque for £240 to be sent to you. I do hope this goes someway of restoring your faith in satans bank.

 

etc, etc, etc. rest of letter is obviously template as it says exactly the same as their previous letter and they enclose another leaflet about complaining to the financial ombudsman.

 

 

I know what I think, but wonder what other opinions may be. I think that they obviously know they are in the wrong, otherwise there would be a lot of 'buts and howevers' in there. I also think they know 100% that the debt is statute barred but won't actually admit it, hence paragraph six about reserving the right to sell the debt to someone else - the SAR clearly shows that any movement on the account after August 2006 was all of satans own making, and nothing at all was made by myself or Mr B.

 

£240 compensation is also a considerable improvement on the half-hearted £60 offered previously, so will think a little harder about whether or not to keep this one! My new credit report isn't ready for almost another 3 weeks so I won't be able to check until then whether or not the expired default has been removed (again).

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hello Mrs B, reading post now.

[citizenB]

Your comment that you believe your account is now statute barred has been noted. I accept that the default on your account has expired, however you still remain liable for the debt. Whilst we will not pursue you for the balance we reserve the right to sell the debt to an external agent.

 

 

This is not on - they know the debt is statute barred and that it can never be enforced in a court of law - so not only are they setting you up for some harassment from other DCAs, they are hoodwinking a Debt purchaser into believing that they will get paid !!

 

I doubt they will improve on that compensation.. but £240.00 sounds quite an odd figure !

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Well I think the writer has lost the plot, ''default has expired''?? in answer to the SB statement.

SO we've got em bang to rights on that and the breaches of OFT Guidance.

 

Let them have this broadside.

 

The Director of Compliance

Satans Bank.

 

Dear Curr or Madman,

 

I refer to a letter dated xx xx xxxxx (copy attached for information) I would like to take up some points that I believe staff at Satans Bank need to be made aware of promptly.

 

I have clearly stated that the alleged is statute barred and that I will NOT make any payment in accordance with the OFT GUIDANCE on DEBT COLLECTION 2003/2012

Annexe B Statute Barred DEBT.

 

Also the writer confirms that 'Santander reserve the right to sell the reserve the right to sell the debt to an external agent, Santander is reminded of the Guidance section 3.23 (e) Improper Practices. ''Creditors failing to identify to prospective debt purchasers debts that are known to be statute barred''.

 

Should this account appear at anytime in the future the debt purchaser will be referred to Santander and I will consider that Santander has contributed to an offence of harassment as specified in the Guidance.

 

The matter would be reported to the FCA.

 

£240.00 not to be sneezed at, bank it imo.

[Mrs E Blackadder]

Hi CitizenB. I have exactly the same thought as you, that it will just get sold on to some other debt collector who will then continue the harassment - or even worse get a CCJ by some underhand method because we've all moved on again and we never get their letters. I do wonder, though, that reading between the lines satans know full well that the debt is statute barred so although they say they reserve the right to sell the debt, will they actually do it? I also notified wescot that the debt is statute barred (sent them a copy of the first letter I received from satans that clearly states the default has expired and has been removed from credit reports) and they haven't made any further contact to date. If satans know the debt is statute barred, can they sell it on to someone else?

[Mrs E Blackadder]

Thanks for the reply brig, a useful one as always

 

I think what it comes down to is that they will not, under any circumstances, actually admit to the debt being statute barred, even though the SAR clearly shows no movement being made by the account holders after August 2006 and they admit the default has expired. I think the paragraph in question is 'cleverly worded' for want of another way of putting it; the debt is still there, so they are telling me that I am liable for it even though it is statute barred. Fair enough. They say that they won't chase it - yes, because they know it is statute barred!! It's just the bit about their 'right to sell it...' Surely, if they know it is statute barred, then they should not be selling it on at all???? or am I barking up the wrong tree there?

 

I do like your letter though, and I think it will be making its way to satans in the next week or so. Agree that £240 is not to be sniffed at - would cover almost all the cost of my car insurance

[zydeco]

Your comment that you believe your account is now statute barred has been noted. I accept that the default on your account has expired, however you still remain liable for the debt. Whilst we will not pursue you for the balance we reserve the right to sell the debt to an external agent.

 

That is a wonderful use of the English language, the best legal brains in the country couldn't do better.

It is a prime example of how to deny knowledge of a fact while at the same time admitting it.

They accept that you have told them it is SB (and will not chase you) but do not accept that it is SB as they reserve the right to sell it on. What a tangled web they (try to) weave.

 

Keep that letter safe, Brigs letter is brilliant as usual and £240 is nothing compared to what it might cost them if this carries on.

 

Oh and congratulations at finally getting this sorted.

[Fulhamboy]

120 ++

Hello Brig, If memory serves did they move out to a farm and dad would come home with his briefcase and trilby. Then sit around the fire with his pipe and slippers which the dog would fetch ? This from someone who cannot remember where he put his door keys three hours ago ! I use the

house phone to ring my lost mobile . I 'm sure I have a mischievous imp that moves household objects around just to wind me up.

[Mrs E Blackadder]

That is a wonderful use of the English language, the best legal brains in the country couldn't do better.

It is a prime example of how to deny knowledge of a fact while at the same time admitting it.

They accept that you have told them it is SB (and will not chase you) but do not accept that it is SB as they reserve the right to sell it on. What a tangled web they (try to) weave.

 

Keep that letter safe, Brigs letter is brilliant as usual and £240 is nothing compared to what it might cost them if this carries on.

 

Oh and congratulations at finally getting this sorted.

 

 

Absolutely, zydeco!

 

I think what they are trying to say is that they know, but they won't admit it!

 

They probably think that I'm trying to get loads of compensation out of them; actually that isn't my prime motive. Although it is handy to have, for me it is more a matter of principle in that they have done so much wrong yet still think they can get away with it. No letters of notice of default have ever been sent, and the amount on the account has actually come about because they combined two account to make one huge debt rather than leaving them separate (that is another matter though and one that I have not yet sought any advice about.) Add to that the fact that they can't even make up their minds when the account was closed ( I have two letters with different dates on them!) and they messed up the default date, it all adds up to one very large pig's ear. I will, however, give them their due in that they have at least made an attempt to apologise

[citizenB]

Mrs B, if you are contacted in the future by another agency claiming to have purchased the account - you can swiftly nip in the bud by copying the letter Satan's bank have sent you - highlighting the statement that they are aware that the Debt is statute barred.

 

Then enclose a short note to the "new" owner, advising that Satan's bank were well aware that the account was SB'd when they sold it to them. That Satan's bank are guilty of misleading not only their customers, but 3rd party agencies as well. That if the 3rd party don't back off, you will have no hesitation in making complaints to both the OFT and the FOS.

[lookinforinfo]

The OFT have this to say on Statute Barred Debts-http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/consultations/OFT664Rev_Debt_collection_g1.pdf

 

]Where businesses seek to recover a debt that they know, or

reasonably ought to know, is extinguished, we would be very

likely to consider this an unfair or improper practice which calls

fitness to hold a consumer credit licence into question Where businesses seek to recover

a debt that they know, or reasonably ought to know, is extinguished, we would be very

likely to consider this an unfair or improper practice which calls

fitness to hold a consumer credit licence into question

 

You could point out to Santander that by selling on the debt there would be no point in that buyer not pursuing you. Therefore as Santander know the debt is SB, it is likely that the OFT

would consider their action to be an improper practice that would call into question their fitness to hold on to their credit licence.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Is that not a quote applying to Scotland where indeed a debt is totally extinguished, whereas in England & Wales after a debt becomes SB is still exists and remains payable.

Appendix B of the OFT Guidance on Debt Collection 2003/2012 applies: In England & Wales ''It is unfair to continue to press for payment of an (SB debt)once the debtor has informed the creditor in writing of the status of the debt etc.

[lookinforinfo]

Is that not a quote applying to Scotland where indeed a debt is totally extinguished, whereas in England & Wales after a debt becomes SB is still exists and remains payable.

Appendix B of the OFT Guidance on Debt Collection 2003/2012 applies: In England & Wales ''It is unfair to continue to press for payment of an (SB debt)once the debtor has informed the creditor in writing of the status of the debt etc.

 

Thank you Brigadier, I think you are right-though the OFT could have stated that they were referring to SB in Scotland only rather than just using the word "extinguished" to be used as the identifier. I Engalnd and Wales they state that it is probably an unfair or improper practice "continuing to press a debtor for payment after he has stated that he will not be paying a debt because it is statute barred"

.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

The way the Guidance was formatted in the 2012 update is very confusing as although it is not stated in appendix B one needs to refer to the 2006 0r 2003 versions to work out what applies to the various countries of the Union.

[Mrs E Blackadder]

Mrs B, if you are contacted in the future by another agency claiming to have purchased the account - you can swiftly nip in the bud by copying the letter Satan's bank have sent you - highlighting the statement that they are aware that the Debt is statute barred.

 

The only problem with this though CitizenB is that they haven't actually said that they agree it is statute barred, they only say that they are aware of what I say about it being statute barred but they agree that the default has expired. They have chosen to write it like that so that they don't actually have to admit that they know!

 

This brings me to the next step... Today a letter arrived addressed to me (forwarded from my old address) from Wescot. This is the first time they have ever sent any correspondence in my name. The letter says:

 

Dear Mrs B

 

REf abc etc

 

I refer to our letter dated 23 May in which we informed you that we would be investigating the matter you raised on 20 May.

 

We aren't yet in a position to provide you with a final response but we assure you we are looking into the matter and hope to be able to reply fully to you shortly.

 

Lots of love

Wescot

 

The copy of the letter I sent to them is in post #133. I have never given wescot my name or address, however they have obviously taken it from the copy of the letter from satans bank that I sent them to show that the default had expired and told them that the debt is statute barred. At no point have wescot EVER addressed any correspondence to me, all correspondence has been addressed to Mr B, has been sent to my address, and has remained unopened. Therefore, I am thinking of sending them the following letter - any suggestions or improvements welcome

 

Dear peeps

 

I refer to your letter dated 23 June addressed to me, informing me that you would be investigating a matter that I raised.

 

I can say with 100% certainty that I have never received any previous correspondence from you and definitely no letter dated 23 May.

 

If you are referring to an old Santander account that I once had with a Mr E Blackadder, then I should point out to you that this account is now statute barred. You are already aware of this fact as you have been notified of the information (including a copy of a letter that was sent by satans bank themselves, which is, I suspect, where you got an address to start writing to me by even though you have never made any contact with me before). Santander are fully aware of the status of the account and have apologised to me for their past errors.

 

I consider this to be the end of the matter. Any further correspondence relating to this will simply be forwarded to OFT with a formal complaint of harassment.

 

Mrs E Blackadder.

 

 

It is only my quick, first reaction to them. I am tempted not to respond to it at all and just wait to see what their (probably) feeble response will be as they try to get round the statute barred bit, but I am just annoyed that they are behaving as though they have been writing to me all along when infact every letter they have sent has been addressed to Mr B only. If I am going to be really pedantic, I have never even sent them a letter which says it comes from me. They have just picked up on my name/address from the copy of the satans letter.

 

I hope the above makes sense. I'm typing it all really quickly as I had the chance of an afternoon off work and wanted to come home and chill a little!! If anyone needs any clarification or such like then please just ask.

 

As usual, thank you again to everyone who is helping me with this. You are all greatly appreciated

Edited June 28, 2013 by Mrs E Blackadder

[dx100uk]

IMHO its about time you stopped letter tennis now...

 

dx

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

FINAL RESPONSE:

 

Wescot Credit Services Ltd:

 

Re:Your Letter dated xx xx xxxx

 

Take not this matter is STAUTE BARRED.

 

This my final response further contact from Wescot will be treated b as harassment.

[Mrs E Blackadder]

IMHO its about time you stopped letter tennis now...

 

dx

 

Would love to DX but they just won't seem to accept that it's SB. I suppose I just live in hope the next letter will get through to them somehow.

[Mrs E Blackadder]

Hope you're about Brig, need you to cast an eye over my latest gospel to satans! (However, on a positive note, I have had it in writing from wescot that satans have confirmed to them that the debt is SB, so they confirm that they will not be contacting me again about it. That's fine by me.)

 

The problem I have now is that despite satans saying that they have removed the information from my credit report once again (see letter in post #151) they have done nothing of the sort. I have run up the following letter as my frustration meter is now on the dangerously high red bit!!

 

Dear satans bank

ref 123abc

 

I refer to yourletter dated 21 June 2013, in which you apologise for not handling my enquiryappropriately, thus making the situation ‘unnecessarily protracted’ and ‘causingme such inconvenience’.

 

However, on checkingmy up to date credit file today, it would appear that Santander are intent oncontinuing to make the situation unnecessarily protracted and thus continuingto cause me inconvenience and stress. Iam referring to the fact that, despite everything you have said in your letter,absolutely nothing has been removed from my credit report, and infact it isshowing as having been updated yet again with the wrong information. In your letter you claim to have been informed bythe relevant area of your business that my credit file has been amended,obviously this is not the case. I attach a copy of the relevant part of mycredit report so that you can see for yourself. I truly cannot put into wordsjust how appalled, angry and totally frustrated I am by Santander’s inability to do what they saythey have done. I should like to remindyou that this default has expired and should not be showing at all, let alone as an open account. Your explanation that it was not removedcorrectly the first time due to an 'administrative error' is evasive at best and it also goes nowheretowards providing an explanation into how the account has been changed from aclosed account to an open one, which I consider to be a very seriousmanipulation of my credit data.

As it would appearthat you are not going to amend my credit file by completely removing theincorrect information I now feel that Santander have proved themselves to beinept, are deliberately continuing to manipulate my credit file despitewhat you have said in your letter, and you leave me no option but to take thematter to the relevant authorities. I amsure you feel that your offer of £240 compensation is enough to attempt to stopme from doing this, but you have consistently failed to amend incorrectinformation even when you have put it in writing that you have done so. Frankly, I find it laughable how each timeyou offer me some kind of compensation you use the same sentence in yourletter; ‘I do hope this goes someway of restoring your faith in Santander’. Allow me to use the same sentence that I usedin my last letter to you; ‘In fact,you have quite successfully ensured that I now have absolutely no faithwhatsoever in Santander.’ I stand by this comment.

 

You have sevendays in which to provide me with a plausible explanation as to Santander’s actions (or perhaps that shouldactually be lack of actions).

Mrs E Blackadder.

Hope everyone is enjoying the sunny weather. Have a great weekend.

Mrs B

 

 

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hello Mrs B.

 

Satans are just unbelievable, it raises doubts on the voracity of any communication from any department!

 

May I suggest that the letter should be far more forceful and addressed to the CEO (UK), I feel that financial redress for the what one can now only describe as a series of lies in regard to the actions the bank has stated clearly were to happen?

 

Bullet Point the dates actions promised, e.g. promised removal of adverse data on..........

Further letter dated............. no action taken.

 

Right through to the final admission of statute barred status and data still displayed.

 

Suggested redress £1000.00 for each CRA entry, £500.00 for each broken promise £1500=£2000 for stress, anxiety caused, and £500.00 consequential expenses incurred whilst seeking resolution of a situation that was entirely caused by Satans incompetence.

[Mrs E Blackadder]

Hi Brig, many thanks for your reply. Could I beg another favour from you with regard to the letter? You say make it more forceful, but I'm not sure how to put it together - sheer frustration and anger at satans means that I just can't seem to put exactly what I want together. Could you possibly help me to adapt the letter above? Perhaps rather than just addressing it to the CEO, I should send it to the named person dealing with the complaint and cc it to the CEO along with a brief covering letter. That way both parties are left in no doubt that things aren't being dealt with. There are also so many other points that they have failed to address, such as no letters of intention to default sent at any point; putting two accounts together to make one large debt rather than having two smaller debts; taking them 9 months to actually provide a proper SAR, although they did send me some paper work after about 4 months when I complained about them not responding to my original SAR request. The list goes on but I'm really not sure how to tackle it all because I am not fully aware of how banks are supposed to deal with defaulted accounts so, to be honest, I am prepared to stick to the current point of them not removing the incorrect information from my credit report because once that has been done permanently I will feel much better.

 

Regarding your point about satan's final admission of the debt's status, it is frustrating that they will not actually put it in writing to me that the debt is statute barred, only that they acknowledge that I have told them that it is. However, I have now received a letter from wescot in which they state that "our clients have now confirmed that the debt is statute barred and we have updated our records accordingly. You should not hear from wescot again regarding this matter". Thank you wescot for saying that satans give the confirmation of the statute barred status!!

 

I also want to get back the bank charges on this account, but even with that there is a problem because they combined 2 accounts to make the final amount. There is no paperwork in the SAR relating to this, such as letters, only a mention that a £750 debit was transferred into the defaulted account about 4 years after it defaulted and the amount came from a flexiplan-plus account. As I had no idea the defaulted account even existed I haven't got a flamin' clue what the flexiplan-plus account was all about. Consequently, I don't really know where to begin with that one as there don't appear to be any records relating to how the £750 debit is made up, let alone why they would amalgamate it with an already overdrawn account, add on interest and make one huge debt. Anyway, that is by the by for the moment as I really want to deal with them doing what they claim they have actually done even though they haven't.

 

Do excuse me if I seem somewhat . That is because I am!

 

Thanks again for your time Brig. Really don't think I would have got to this stage without your help.

 

Mrs B.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hello Mrs B, yes of course I will draft a forceful response, it will be tomorrow pm as I have to be in court from 1000 to 1330..

[Mrs E Blackadder]

Thank you Brig, that will be great.

 

Don't know what you are in court for (no, I'm not being nosey and do not expect you to tell me), but if it's something to do with yourself then I wish you the best of luck. If you are helping someone else then I wish both you and them the best of luck.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Thank you Brig, that will be great.

 

Don't know what you are in court for (no, I'm not being nosey and do not expect you to tell me), but if it's something to do with yourself then I wish you the best of luck. If you are helping someone else then I wish both you and them the best of luck.

Not for me, for justice!!

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Ok Mrs B, this is going to take a while to put together, a large number of point to be covered and I would like to address them chronologically if possible, as near as I can, so I'm going to print off the various posts & replies so I can sort them before writing the letter.