Santander/Moorcroft

[Mrs E Blackadder]

Thank you Brig, will be going off today.

Edited March 25, 2013 by Mrs E Blackadder

[Mrs E Blackadder]

Have just made one final adjustment. On point three, I have realised that this is the date Santander closed the account (according to the paperwork they sent me). It is certainly not when the account was defaulted on, so I have replaced it with: '3.The default date ofDecember 2011 is when Santanderchose to close the account, not when the account was defaulted on.'

On a related point, Wescot have now sent yet another letter to Mr B at this address. However, its contents confuse me and I am hoping you might have a clue what they are going on about. (please note that I have not opened any of the letters sent to Mr B at my address, but you can read them if you know how!! Also, the letter is marked 'to be opened by addressee only' so I have to do what it says don't I) It says that after contacting Santander, they have been told by santander that Mr B now has to make a formal complaint to Santander by telephone to their complaints department. He has 14 days inwhich to do this, after which collection of the debt will continue.

If you remember, the original letter to wesc was to tell them that the debt is stat barred and that Mr B does not live at this address so stop writing to him here (a point they have clearly chosen to ignore). What is confusing me is that I have no idea what Mr B is supposed to be complaining to Santander about. The original stat barred letter to wesc was quite clear, no queries were made; they were told the facts. What are they all going on about? The only complaint being made (that wesc have no idea about anyway) is my letter to Santander about my credit reference file.

Hope all that makes sense.

[citizenB]

So it is your credit files that are being messed around even though it is not your debt.

 

I think you might have to make a complaint to the Information commissioner and Financial Ombudsman.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hello Mrs B, given the convoluted thinking of Satans bank and my twisted perception to boot I think they want Mr B to complain about mail going to the wrong address, and insisting that ''formal complaint'' is made by phone is nonsense and would vanish into the ether!!

 

May I suggest that you hand the letters to your postman and ask him to mark the letters ''gone away'' and reurn them so sender.

[Mrs E Blackadder]

I have today received a letter from Santander regarding my complaint to them. As far as I am concerned, they have contradicted themselves by saying that the money is owed but they then go on to say about the default date. I have typed the letter out:

 

Dear Mrs B

 

Thank you for highlighting your concerns and giving me the opportunity to investigate this matter.

 

My understanding of your complaint is that you are unhappy that a default is showing on your credit file, for your bank account xxxxx, dated xxxxx 2011. You say that there has been no activity on the account by you since August 2006. You say that Santander have breached and that you have not received a default notice. You say that is possible that Wescot are pursuing the debt, which you say you are not liable, unlawfully.

 

I have investigated your account and can confirm that the balance that the account defaulted at, is correct and you are being held liable to repay the debt to Wescot. Please call them on.... to make a repayment plan.

 

In regard to the default date, I have looked into this and can confirm that the date of the default is incorrect. I do apologise for the inconvenience that this may have caused you. The default should have registered on 8 Feb 2007, but did not until 5 December 2011. I have arranged for this to be amended by the relevant department. This does mean that your default has expired. Please allow 28 days for this to update before checking your credit file.

 

By some way of compensating you, I have arranged for a cheque to be sent for £60, under seperated cover. I hope that this goes some way to restoring your faith in Santander.

 

I hope I have explained the reason for my decision and that if offers a fair resolution to the issue you have raised. If after consideration you would like to discuss any of the above points further, please contact us on.....

 

Alternatively, you are entitled to refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service. I enclose a leaflet etc etc etc.

 

Yours sincerely.

 

 

 

Firstly, surely by admitting that the default should have registered on 8 Feb 2007 and that is has now expired, they are admitting that the debt is statute barred? I am not sure of the relevance of the date of 8 Feb as it doesn't relate to anything I have, but it is still over 6 years ago.

 

Secondly, I DO NOT WANT A CHEQUE FOR £60 to 'restore my faith' in them. I consider it an absolute insult and some kind of pay off to accepting what they have said. I am going to return it to them as soon as it arrives. I also want to do a letter that says the amount at default may well be correct, however (by their own admission) the default took place over 6 years ago and is, therefore, statute barred.

 

Brig, if you are about, may I call upon you once more to offer your opinion of the above letter and also ask for your help with a reply. I certainly do not want to phone them to discuss the matter, I want it all in writing. I have no intentions of making a repayment plan with Wescot over a debt that, if I have read the letter correctly, Santander have admitted has an expired default date. What do you reckon?

 

Thanks again.

 

By the way, apart from where I have put either xxxxx, ....., or etc, the letter is typed as it is. Any grammar etc is of Santander's making.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hello Mrs B,

 

With this ''corrected'' default date indicates that the last payment must have been some months earlier so SB indeed.

The CRA entry does not need ''updating '' but needs removing completely.

 

So Wescot are now pursuing a statute barred account??

 

So a letter to the Compliance Manager at Westcott with a copy of Satans' Banks letter.

 

Ref: use Wescots.

 

Dear Curr Or Madman,

 

I refer to recent communications from Wescot regarding an alleged debt for £xxxx .xxx relating to an account with Santander, please not I do NOT acknowledge any debt to Wescot or any company it may claim to represent.

 

I have now received a letter from Santander confirming that the default date was wrongly reported ( copy enclosed) given the data provided I have concluded that this alleged debt is STATUTE BARRED, therefore no payment or offer of payment will be made now or in the future.

 

Wescot will now cease to process all data relating to me and remove it from its records immediately and confirm in writing that this instruction has been complied with.

 

This is my final response in this matter.

 

And for Satans bank. the following when the cheque arrives.

 

Address to the muppet who wrote the letter.

 

Ref: use theirs.

 

Dear xxxxxxxxx

 

I am in receipt of your letter dated xx xxxx and your cheque for £60.00.

 

I have a number of comments to make regarding the conduct of Santander in this matter.

 

1.The recording of a default date as inaccurate as has happened in this case is extremely serious

and could indicate either misuse of the data and or gross incompetence.

2. The offer of £60.00 I consider derisory in these circumstances given the time trouble and stress

involved in getting the date correct, let alone the costs of having to access credit reference files on a

number of occasions using all 3 main credit reference agencies.

3.The statement in your letter dated xx xx xxxx regarding the need to make a payment plan with Wescot

Credit services is at least made with little knowledge of the status of the account or at worst a deliberate

attempt to persuade me to make a payment on an account that is STATUTE BARRED!!

 

Given the information above I am advised that financial redress should be in the region of £500.00 for the

immense amount of time, stress and cost involved in getting this resolved.

 

I await your comments which when received I will be able to consider my complaint to the Ombudsman Service

more clearly.

[Mrs E Blackadder]

Hi Brig, thank you for the very quick response.

 

I don't want to write to Wescot yet, I really want something from Santander that admits they should not be pursuing the debt as it is statute barred. I will be using a combination of the above to point this out to them with the hope of getting a positive reply. Not until that point will I want to send anything to Wescot as I think they will just keep banging on about what was owed when the account defaulted rather than the fact that it is now statute barred. I want it cut and dried so that wes can't hassle me any further (especially by writing to mr B at my address!) I will do the letter and get it off to them in the next couple of days.

 

Do you know any actual laws that they have ignored here? If I can say something along the lines of 'by continuing to pursue a statute barred debt you are refusing to acknowledge point .... of ..... act', or that kind of thing.

 

Satans do actually say in their letter that the 'default has expired', so I am hopeful that it does mean a complete removal of this from any credit report and not just an update. I have noticed a lot of things disappearing from my report in recent months that have reached their 6 year deadline, so I assume that if they try to put something on there/correct something to show that it is over 6 years old it should automatically disappear - but I stand to be corrected!! My current report won't be ready for another 3 days, and given the date of the letter I don't know that it will be updated on the next report. I would love to know why it took them 4 years to mis-register a default date in the first place and just who updated it in February to make it look like an open account with a recent default rather than a closed account with a distant default!

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

A statute barred debt in England and Wales is still ''owed'' and is collectable SB refers only to the ability to enforce judgement in court.

Sections 2.14 of the OFT Guidance 2003 subsection (b) states: '' It is unfair to press for payment after a debtor has informed a creditor

in writing that a debt is statute barred and they will not be paying'' and it may amount to harassment contrary to section 40(1) Of the Administration of Justice Act 1970.

 

The second letter in post 106 deals with this without the need for quoting Guidance or legislation they are fully aware of it all anyway.

[Mrs E Blackadder]

I've been looking around on the internet at how people interpret statute barred and it makes for some interesting reading. I stumbled across a site which I assume is actually run by Satans and it is so biased. It does admit that if a debt is statute barred then you cannot be taken to court for it, but it is hidden away in amongs loads of other information which is all pushing towards making you feel like a really bad person for not being able to manage your debts. I even found another piece of information where the person was claiming CAG to be their nemesis!!!

 

I have never wanted to avoid paying my debts, but I object to such a large organisation as Santander not playing by the book. They have obviously messed up by not placing correct information where it should have been and at the correct time, and have recently manipulated information to their advantage, yet they expect me to forgive and forget. They know where they can stick their £60

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

There is only the one definition of SB, NO payment or unequivocal written acknowledgment of a debt in 6 clear year (5 in Scotland).

[Mrs E Blackadder]

Checked my up to date credit report at the weekend and...... this has disappeared completely :whoo:No signs of whatsoever! Santander have, on this occassion, been true to their word and done what they said they would. Probably thought they'd better get this one right as they have made such a pig's ear of the rest of the information. Am still furious that they thought they could get away with making a closed account look like it was open and only just recently defaulted on.

 

Also checked the first letter that was sent to Mr B from wescot regarding this and it is dated just on two weeks after this became statute barred. Hopefully, once they have been told this they will b*gger off

 

No sign of the £60 cheque from satans yet though. Wish they'd hurry up, I want to post it back to them...

Edited April 15, 2013 by Mrs E Blackadder

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

So far so good Mrs B.

Get an SB letter away asap!!

[Mrs E Blackadder]

Hoping to get it done today Brig. Am also working on another letter to ICO regarding Creation Financial Services. They placed a closed account back onto my credit report and made it open with a £1000 credit limit when it should actually have been disappearing (well, it wasn't actually on my report, it just made a sudden reappearance.) Six months on and several complaints down the line, they have now made it a closed and settled account as from 30 march this year. Effectively, they have given this account a 12 year life span as it now won't disappear from my credit report until 2018. I've given them all the relevant info to prove that it shouldn't even still be showing and asked them how could it be an open account when it was a card for Etam, a shop that ceased trading in the UK around 2007. It has all fallen on deaf ears. Anyway, that's another story and one that I think the ICO need to know about.

 

What the hell is wrong with these financial people? We are all expected to tow the line, fair enough, but they expect to just get away with it when they do things wrong. lol

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Couldn't agree more!!

[Mrs E Blackadder]

Ok, here is my version of your letter to wescot. I'm not sure about the third paragraph - perhaps I should leave it out as I don't know that telling them about the credit report thing has any relevance at this stage. Could maybe use it later on if they continue to try to make contact even after being told about it being stat barred.

 

Dear people at wessie

 

I refer to recent communication from Wescot regarding an alledged debt for £xxxx relating to an account with Satans bank. Please note that I do NOT acknowledge any debt to wessie or any company it may claim to represent.

 

Please refer to my letter of xxxx inwhich I informed you that this debt is statute barred. Find now enclosed a copy of a letter from satans bank confirming that this is indeed the case, therefore no payment or offer of payment will be made now or in the future. As I am sure you are aware the onus of providing unequivocal proof of the status of the account fell entirely on yourselves, although you have failed to do this and therefore have put the onus back onto the customer. This is against oft guidelines. It is also irrelevant how much was owed at the time of default of the account, the default has now expired and the debt is statute barred. Please also stop writing to Mr B at the address that you have, it is incorrect and you have been notified of this.

 

Credit reports relating to this account had been changed to make it look as though the account was open (when it was infact closed), and a default date of February 2013 had been entered. Satans bank are now looking into who made these changes and once I find out who is responsible for such a serious manipulation of information, I shall be referring the matter to the relevant authorities.

 

Wessie will now cease to process all data relating to this matter and remove it from its records immediately. I am sure that your company is more than aware of OFT guidelines on pursuing statute barred debt.

 

This is my final response on this matter.

 

 

 

Any suggestions/amendments gratefully received

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

That's fine MrsB. Should shut Them up!

[Mrs E Blackadder]

Sooo, the saga continues !!

 

I have held off contacting westies for various reasons, but interestingly they have now sent Mr B another letter at this address offering a discount. Yes, that's right folks, A DISCOUNT (which has been agreed by their client), but only if he replies within the next 4 days. After that they will continue to pursue the full amount. I think not, Mr Bond. If payment of the discounted debt cannot be made, they are open to reasonable repayment terms. Again, I think not .

 

Can't imagine why they should be offering a discount, can you? They don't say how much of a discount, you have to phone them up to be privvy to that information.

 

I feel now is the right time to send them the disappointing news that the debt is statute barred. I suspect, though, that they already know this...

 

My sincere apologies to anyone who has not picked up on the oozing sarcasm in this post

[citizenB]

Hello Mrs B. They are unbelievable aren't they ?

 

Yes, it seems to me, the statute barred letter is now the way to go.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

What Ho MrsB Can I write the SB letter for you:madgrin:

[Mrs E Blackadder]

Brig, please be my guest Try not to be too horrible to them though because, as Frankie Howerd used to say, 'Don't mock the afflicted'.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Brig, please be my guest Try not to be too horrible to them though because, as Frankie Howerd used to say, 'Don't mock the afflicted'.

 

Ta never been one to kick a cripple!! I'll draft the letter later Mrs. B.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

:madgrin:Ok:

 

Send the following to both Moocrap and Satans bank, Moorcrap have a tendency to hand back accounts to the creditor at the first sign of a dispute;

 

Private & Confidential

FAO The Compliance/Legal Director

Moorcroft.

 

Ref: use theirs.

 

Re: Formal Notification & Final Response:

 

Dear Cur or Madman,

 

I refer to the long tedious communications between my self Satans Bank and Moorcrap Debt Collections over many months.

 

I now delighted to be the bringer of good news to all parties concerned in this matter, I now formally state that this account is STATUTE BARRED,therefore I will not now or in the future make any payment or offer of payment in regard to this account.

 

I am fully aware of the OFT Guidance 2003/2012 (as amended) and the sections regarding the pursuit of statute barred debts, and would remind you that should xxxxx wish to dispute the status of this account the onus of providing UNEQUIVOCAL PROOF that the debt is not statute barred falls upon Santander and/or Moocroft.

 

This letter is sent by RM recorded/signed for delivery and its receipt will be checked.

 

This is my final response!

 

Signed Baldrick (a cunning plan).

[Mrs E Blackadder]

Thanks for that Brig, aka Baldrick!

 

I will amend it slightly, as I am going to send them a copy of the letter from Santander which says that they made a huge mistake and that the account has 'expired', for want of a better word. Even though the letter from satans also says that the amount at default is correct and must still be paid to Westcot, I shall be pointing out to Wescot that it doesn't matter what the amount was, it is still statute barred. (I am going to challenge Satans over the amount at default anyway, because at least £400 of it is made up of charges). I suspect that Wescot are now aware of this (hence the 'discount' offer), but are ignoring my original letter that told them it was statute barred. They are choosing to ignore any proof they have of the status of the account and are still pushing for payment. I am also going to be asking Santander to explain why they ignored my original request for a SAR, so I didn't get it within 40 days, and I had to make a second request which still took them over a fortnight. As well as this, I want to know who was allowed to change my credit report to show a closed account as an open one, and change the default date to last February to make it look recent. Is it too much for me to ask them the name of the organisation and the individual who was allowed access to my credit report to do this? It seems to me that Satans have c#cked up all round and their measly offer of £60 (which, I may add, has never arrived) is certainly not acceptable as a way or 'restoring' my faith in them (or buying me off to shut up and go away).

 

God, I hope all that makes sense!! I'm trying to type, think of what I want to say, and cook tea at the same time; I know woman can multi-task but it's the end of the day lol.

 

Once I have done the letters, I will post them for your perusal and see what you think.

[citizenB]

I see no reason why they should not be made to investigate why they have been so incompetent and arrogant in their dealings with you.. So yes, make an official complaint to Satan's bank

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

OK Mrs B.