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    • Hi Firstly did you send the Formal Complaint letter I mentioned in post#6 and also did you send a SAR Request??? Right whoever that was from the Housing Association that stated they can do what they want is very sadly wrong and what they had just done by attending your property and trying to change the lock without a Possession Order from the Court is classed as an ILLEGAL EVICTION as a Notice to Quit does not give the Housing Association the Power to attend you Property and try to change the locks. You need to remember if you leave that property with no possession order from the courts and try to get the council to house you as homeless you will be classed as intentionally Homeless therefore you have no right to be given temporary housing by the Council. (as mention in my post=6). You need to do two thing urgently and they are another Formal Complaint to the Housing and to contact them by phone and not ask but demand to speak to the Housing Manager as to why they tried to carryout and Illegal Eviction without a Possession Order from the Courts by trying to change the Locks to your Property.   Dear Sir/Madam FORMAL COMPLAINT Reference: ATTEMPTED ILLEGAL EVICTION WITHOUT A POSSESSION ORDER FROM THE COURTS Today 18th June 2024 at approx XXXXhrs a Housing Officer attended my Property with a Locksmith to change the locks to my property unaware that I was in the property at the time and breaking into my property all caught on my doorbell camera. When challenged by myself on this matter that the Housing Association required a Possession Order from the Courts to even think about changing the Locks to my Property your Housing Officer was obnoxious and insisted that the Notice to Quit letter gave him all the powers he required to therefore change the Locks to my Property. What the Housing Association have just tried to do is to carryout what is classed as an ILLEGAL EVICTION as you did not have a 'POSSESSION ORDER from the COURTS' and a 'Notice to Quit' Letter does not give your Housing Association Carte Blanche to carry out such action as a Notice to Quit Letter is only the start of any Housing Association process for evicting a Tenant as your Housing Association should be fully aware of. The actions of your Housing Officer were all recorded on my Mobile Phone as well so I have full evidence of the Housing Association actions in attempting an Illegal Eviction which I will also be making the Courts fully aware of when you take this to Court to get a Possession Order. The actions of the Housing Association and specifically your Housing Officer have caused untold stress due to the above and I require an urgent meeting to explain your actions due to the above which I find absolutely disgraceful by the Housing Association and also require the following: 1. Your Eviction Policy (not the leaflet) 2. Copy of your Complaints Policy (not the leaflet) 3. Copy of your Customer Care Charter (not the leaflet) 4. Copy of your Equality and Diversity Policy (not the leaflet)   
    • the same 3 question on the n180 are asked before the mediation can begin. so you then say ... despite numerous requests dating back over 1yrs the claimant nor their sols have supplied me with requested paperwork to enable me to make an informed decision upon entering into mediation. i therefore refuse. you are doing the same thing again you did last year  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/458251-linkkearns-claimform-old-barclaycard-debt-now-n244/?do=findComment&comment=5232418    
    • I'm compiling a brief list of points to state in tomorrow's mediation call.  it would seem that I have to come to an agreement of some sort. Seeing as most of the defence, lack of genuine paperwork evidence from the claimant, mild threats etc. seems to go in my favour, is it best to mediate for that agreement or to let it run to court?  Short of the 6 year rule playing out, I'm going to have to pay up somehow, so why don't I just end it tomorrow? By paying I mean, not hurling myself off a cliff.    
    • @ReuTheo Thanks very much. Coincidentally, it has now been exactly over 1 year since I sent my parcel with Evri and began my enquiries with them as to where my parcel is (and eventually coming to this forum / starting this thread). I understand how you are feeling. It's why I kept this thread active and detailed, so anyone who reads it, can clearly understand what was happening at each stage of the process, so they don't feel anxious or overwhelmed with the process through MCOL, mediation, arranging for trial, working through the WS / Court bundle, and finally going in front of a judge. The work has been put in so hopefully you (and everyone else) now has a good WS template to use and build the case. I agree the legal language and specifics are not easy to understand at first glance by layman / non-legal persons. What I found useful is reading the WS and researching some of the Acts in my own time so that I could understand the legal speak. This reading / research really helped me to have a clear idea of what the rules/laws are and how they apply to my case (and likely your case also). As you know, this is a self-help forum so you certainly got to put in the time/work to understand your case/argument. It will be worth it in the end (I say this from personal experience - given this time last year, I was banging my head against a wall with Evri and couldn't see the light at the end of the tunnel). Above all else, the team on this forum such as @BankFodder and @jk2054 are a tremendous help with getting the WS in the right state and giving guidance. Don't be afraid to ask questions on this forum - it's for your ultimate benefit (even if sometimes the responses seem harsh - don't take it personally. If my experience is anything to go by, it'll help give clarity and maybe even close a potential gap in your case). Good luck with your case.
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Need help with rent and deposit information

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I moved into this private property, a single room on 21st March 2012 where I paid one months rent of £240 and £80 for a deposit on a three month agreed tenancy. All bills were included and with the following two payments for rent after that I paid £80 each time to pay a full deposit of £240.


My contract having ended three months later I explained to the landlord I will stay another two months which has now turned unto three months until 21st August 2012. I have signed no new paperwork and was simply told to change the date on my original contract which I assume he has done so, however, I have not signed anything to state the new months I had stayed.


I have just checked the three deposit schemes and can find no record of my deposit in any scheme and I have contacted asking him about this to no avail.


I moved into a small room due to desperate measures of a bad ending to my engagement where the room was a complete mess, mold all over the walls, carpet had stains, mattress was in bad condition and the double socket was broken all to which I had informed the landlord but he never done anything about it. I replaced the double socket myself having been in the building trade to which he agreed to remove the cost from my rent.


I have since moved into a free room downstairs which is £325 and as I have not been paid yet have not paid my rent due on 21st July 2012. I originally had pictures of the state of the room but having my phone break I lost the images so cannot prove it was in that state when moving in.


My rent at times had been late however had fully been paid up to date apart from the one due for 21st July - 21st August.


Furthermost, the landlord fails to repair things or when he does it is weeks later, the shower has leaked for months and after his many failed attempts at repairing it another tenant did it with a slight leak still. He had informed me on repairing the issue in my old room but never did forcing me to move to the room downstairs for the final month.


Finally unless showing someone around the house there has been several times when other tenants in the shared house has felt threatened when the landlord called them out for lieing which I know they never did as it was the landlord who signed the tenancy payments himself, he comes into the house whenever he feels like it without notice or does maintenance on other rooms to rent out without notice at all and we constantly feel pressured by his behaviour.


Any advice would be welcome on what to do about the rent (will be paid up to date next week when I get paid) and about the deposit and me not signing an updated contract and the other issues.



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do the rooms have locks on?

Is it a licensed house of muliple occupancy? check with council?

LL has right to enter property but not rooms, witout permission.

The deposit must be protected and you should be notified, failure to do that , and you can take him to court for non-protection.

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Rooms are locked with a key. I have no idea if registered as multiple occupancy but he doesn't accept DSS so I am not sure if its to hide that he rents out multiple rooms or anything?


He just text me this which I have NO evidence of the key £50, never signed anything stating that and this is the only word I just heard of it.


" we dont take deposits. its the last months rent. this is what the advance payment is. so just pay the difference and leave 50 behind this is the key money. u will get this in cash when u return the keys. this is worked out by 85 extra for large room plus 50. key security money = 135."


As said, nothing was ever mentioned about £50 for a key and my tenancy agreement clearly says I paid it as a deposit not final months rent.


Edit: the above is a text message I have as evidence.

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even if it was key money that would be a security bond/deposit and IMO treated as such by a court.

How many rooms? do you have fire alarms hard wired and fire doors etc. you need to check with council if it is an approved HMO as it has certian rules applied to it, Fire safety being on of them.

Contract needs to be amended if amount changed.

As he seems relaxed about late rent would not push too hard about repairs as long as they get done.

As said before ok for LL to come into house, but not enter rooms. do you pay ant council tax or is it included in rent?

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Everything is included in the rent including the internet but I had that upgraded and I am paying the difference on it which is fine once he proves the total cost I'll give him 12 months cost for it.


The smoke alarms are just screwed into the ceiling.... in fact came off yesterday so stuck on the cabinet and he doesn't care, shower is leaking badly through into the kitchen and he doesn't care. He failed to pay the TV license having told us he had so there is a £1000 bill out for him and I know if anyone gives their name they will be charged for it so I've warned others not to give their name to TV people as my parents did this to me when I was 16.


There is also complaints from the neighbours about the back garage, he dumped everything in there and has left rat nests which neighbours have given him 10 days before they call environmental services and he doesn't care and has not fixed the problem either. The cooker is in bad condition and he refuses to replace it which was an old tenant who broke the front of the oven door off so its a pain to open now and everyone refuses to use it to cook.


The doors are the old wooden ones with extra piece of wood on either side which would burn quite easily (in building trade so I know they are an issue) and as said there is NO mention of a key cost anywhere so I am simply not paying the key cost at all which I believe I have every right to do as I have not signed anywhere stating a key cost?


No new contracts had been signed since my extra three months lease either and he turned the community living room into a bedroom in January which is what I am in now and several tenants left because of this and how bad he is. There is three rooms upstairs and two downstairs all doubles apart from my old room which was a single room in very bad condition he never attempted to fix.


I have spotted the landlord enter the girl upstairs room before without permission which I notified him is not allowed and he did not seem to care either and having informed her she has not used it against him as far as I know.


This house would not pass any council approval because it is a complete disgrace.


Edit: Also to add his Father had threatened to box the boiler up as we had a three week spell of rain and dried our clothing inside. There is two dryers in the garage which as said has rats in it and as far as I can tell the heating element is broken in both and he has not replaced them. He got a bill for about £1600 for three months as the old tenants who just moved out had their heating on 24/7 ignoring the timer and I had informed his father it was illegal to shut our access to it off.

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At no point has OP indicated type of T was stated & signed. It may be an AST, in which case OP cannot vacate before 6 months without LL acceptance of early surrender, or it may be a contractual or holiday let agreement, when deposit protection does not apply AFAIK.

If property was as dire as OP suggests, why did he want to extend T by a further 2 months?

Alarm bells ring when T wishes to extend yet claims deposit not protected and tries to establish disrepair without involving outside agencies.

If OP is in the Building (joinery) trade he should realise that modern internal doors should have a fire resistance of 30 mins and a solid wood extension across depth of door is better than the basic compacted fibre faced cheap doors.

LL may have no obligation to repair white goods (dryers)

Sounds like prevvious T queared the pitch for future Ts (reasonable usage.

I do not defend LLs actions, only acting as Devil's Advocate

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OP has valid concerns, I know OP and was the one who directed him here for advice, it was a short fixed term let which he sought to extend whilst looking for more suitable accommodation, the LL response was to tell him to amend the dates on the original contract as that he (LL) would do the same, there is no mention of key money on the contract and despite the LL txt to the contrary the deposit is described exactly as that on the contract that was signed, a deposit and not a months rent in advance


property IS as dire as described, if anything OP is understating the issues with the property


OP is asking for advice here on if his deposit should be in TDS or not and of not what legal protection he has from being taken advantage of as LL is changing his story with regards to the money handed over as a deposit every time spoken to


I very much doubt that LL has registered as multi occupancy but that's a separate issue, atm OP just wants clarification and advice on where he stands with regards to deposit status and legal protection surrounding it


hope that clarifies :)

claim v natwest WON!


all posts made by myself are without prejudice

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Unless OP provides details of the Agreement signed, how can we advise?

Presumably T inspected property before signing Comtract and deemed it aceptable for contracted needs?

OP may have an AST, but he is equally bound by it's provisions.

What does OP hope to achieve?

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right have just spoken to the OP


he doesnt know if it was an AST


he knows it was for 3 months initially and then asked for it to be extended for another 3 months for the reason above, tbh I have a feeling this isnt an AST by what I am being told


apparently he also cant check with his housemates as the LL has failed to give them a copy of their agreement after it was signed so they cant check theirs and it doesnt state anywhere that is an AST on his copy


have advised him to get out asap as this LL sounds a dodgy as hell tbh


also he has stated that there is a section about key money but no figure has been filled in and this was something he didnt sign either


I'll see if he can scan it and put a copy up on here with his details redacted

claim v natwest WON!


all posts made by myself are without prejudice

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The deposit and amount must be in the contract or as desribed in a subsequent Email/letter to be valid.

can OP provide evidence as to what was paid and when. receipt?

IMO He should be concerned now about its condition, the regulations for HMO's are there for SAFETY; particularly fire, doors should not only be fire resistant, but should have smoke seals and there should be an alternative means of escape, fire alarms hard wired to a control panel, so FB know where fire is quickly etc.

As for repiars these must be in followed up in writing to LL to confirm response time, lack of response or late action can be taken as a breach of quiet enjoyment covenant.

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I am aware of the issues with the house, however, my situation was basically my fiancee left me 5 hours before I moved in and hopped on a plane to Australia where I was supposed to go with her so I took this place as it had all bills and rent cheap.


I will try and get a scan this weekend and the repairs have been given months of notice including my room in writing as my boss done that for me and he is an ex policeman and still failed to do so.


I am not on about the lack of repairs or how bad the landlord is by which the smoke alarms are screwed into the ceiling and not even securely, not hard wired at all and when I moved in a tenant who moved out two weeks late left without paying last months rent as the landlord who he had given written requests to with a timely manner to fix never did the repairs such as smoke alarms or the back door he left open for 2 months before repairing.


I am simply asking if I am supposed to receive a deposit which the landlord is claiming is last months rent when it specifically says a deposit was collected not last months rent as my boss has already told me he paid the £325 and the landlord is telling me there was no deposit meaning its not protected but my contract specifically says it was a deposit.


The top of my agreement reads as follows...


Term: A term of (filled this in as 3) months 21/3/12 to 21/6/12.


Rent: £238 per calendar month (subject nevertheless as hereinafter provided)


Payable: In advance by equal calendar monthly payments on the ____ of every month. (not filled this in)


The first payment to be made by the 21/3/12.

Then on the 21st of every month.


A deposit of £240 Has been paid on 21/3/12.

Key Money of £____ has been paid. This will be refunded upon return of keys. (never filled in or never explained anything about having to pay him £50 until my final few weeks living here)

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I think I understand as follows:

You paid £240 month rent plus £80 month towards dedeosit for three months. so total deposit paid is £240.

You have not paid any key deposit.

Your rent is now £325 for a different room.

You need to update contract, suggest you fill it in and get him to sign it.

Have you got any proof of payments.

He should protect deposit or you can sue as sais before. he cant change contract terms even if unsigned by him, but only a court could decide if it goes that far.

forget about key deposit, if he has not asked for it, would be covered by general deposit anyway if not returned and may affect tenancy term and conditions if you dont return them, so very unwise not to do so.

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If the tenant has exclusive use of a property (which could be an individual room), it's in England or Wales, the rent is under £100k pa(!) and the landlord does not live in the property, then it is an AST.


If it is an AST the deposit should be protected, and should have been protected since the first part of it was paid.

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Does DPS allow for deposit paid by installments? Given the new 30 day rule for deposit protection,

I think I would have treated the £240 as deposit and £80 payments as rent or

full deposit + 1 month rent in advance else no keys.

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Hi there,


Sorry for the late replies the contract is AST it says at the top. Also can anyone translate this for me above where he signed the agreement and myself.



In the rent or any part thereof shall be in arrears for 14 days after the same has become due whether legally demanded or not if there shall be any breach of any of the obligations on the part of the tenant or if the tenant shall become bankrupted or enter into liquidation or compund with his creditors or if any of the grounds listed in schedule 2 of the Housing Act 1988 as amended under the Housing Act 1996 and the provisions for recovered of possession by the landlord in section 21 thereof apply accordingly, the Landlord may re-enter the premises or any part thereof in the name of the whole and immediately thereupon the tenancy shall absolutely detemine without prejudice or any rights and remedies of the Landlord.
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Hi there,


Sorry for the late replies the contract is AST it says at the top. Also can anyone translate this for me above where he signed the agreement and myself.


Essentially, it means he can use section 8 or section 21 if appropriate. It suggests he can just walk in and take over if a tenant is in breach, but that wouldn't apply whilst the property was let on an AST (because he'd need an s8 or s21 court order). These unenforceable terms often appear in tenancy agreements because they can be used if the tenancy ceases to be an AST - for instance, if the tenant sub-lets it is no longer an AST.

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I have spoken to him and I had read and also given the advice by the council that I can alter my original contract which now has the alterations in a different colour pen signed by him on mine and his contract. The original said March to June and has been updated to a 7 month period which means September 21st 2012 is the final ending for the AST. I am in 2 weeks arrears which I have explained to him why and it is not an excuse at all and he is threatening to kick me out when I have informed him it will be paid on Monday (Monday coming up).


He also came in earlier threatening to shut the heating off completely because tenants who were here for 6 months previously had the heating on about 20 hours a day and he got £1000. I have informed him that he cannot do that and that he cannot charge us changing the original signed contract of the bills included for heating, water etc.


I am currently in talks with the council who is contacting him on my behalf and another tenants for harassment and also the environmental health services for not sorting the rat issue in the shed.

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Guest jamesatshelter

Hi,I work for Shelter, the housing charity.If a landlord does not put a tenant's deposit into a government-approved scheme within 30days of receiving it then the tenant can claim up to 3x the value of the deposit in comopensation.Shelter is campaigning to raise awareness of these new rules and we may be able to offer you free legal assistance to take your landlord to court.If you'd like to know more you can contact me on james_mills at shelter.org.ukRegardsJames

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Guest jamesatshelter

Thanks Raydetinu,

If anyone needs advice about any housing issue they can call the Shelter helpline on 0808 800 4444, or visit the website or drop in to one of our advice centres (locations can be found on the website)

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Hi there,


Thank you james and everyone else. I am currently working through a few things with the council also so once I have replies I can go further with a few things. I do however have another question as speaking to a friend I believe I am now buggered with my AST.


Basically it was for three months on my contract, I extended this as said previously to 21st September 2012 and it turns out he never signed the alterations and has not edited the version he has thus making the AST/contract void and into a verbal agreement only. I have noticed what he signed was a piece of paper on the contract but it was about repairs and not the contract itself on a separate sheet.


My issue is that I am in almost 3 weeks rent arrears as I had explained to him for a personal reason and it will be paid within a few days now, however, as I posted above I am in breach of the 14 day clause and I assume he can kick me out without an S8 or S21 as he has failed to sign the updated AST agreement. Is there anything I can do about this as I know he will not sign it and I'm basically worried sick he will just turned up and kick me out.

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Ok, so basically I will pay rent this month late which he knows as my boss is away in Europe for 2 weeks. I am also paying September's rent up front with that also. If he threatens me then he has to follow the S8/S21 route and I'll inform the council?

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