Sister caught shoplifting in Superdrug. Advice please?

[UhOh]

Hi, I'm wondering if any of you can help me.

 

My sister is usually of good character, has no criminal record and has never been in trouble with the police before.

 

Yesterday she was caught stealing approximately £50 worth of cosmetics/perfume from Superdrug.

 

The police were not called or even notified, store security took her name, address, contact telephone number, photo and N.I number.

I do not condone her behaviour but she is in a state and realises it was a stupid stupid stupid thing to do. Superdrug have banned her for life from their stores and the shopping centre it happened in have given her a two year ban.

 

She has been told that she will recieve a letter in the post for a Civil Recovery Claim and my questions are as follows:

 

A) How much is the CRC likely to be for?

 

B) Can Superdrug stores ban her for life? She is worried about going in to one by mistake and getting arrested or something.

 

C) Will this CRC and her details being put on a 'Dishonesty Database' affect any future employment etc? Will it come up in a CRB check for instance?

 

Thanks in advance for any help .

[UhOh]

Anyone?

 

I've read things on here about RLP. How should she deal with them if she gets any letters etc from them?

Edited August 6, 2012 by MARTIN3030

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

I'm sorry you haven't had any replies yet, but you have only been here for 45 minutes. I'm sure the guys will be along as soon as their lives permit.

 

Have a read around the forum for similar posts, because you may have nothing to worry about. I'll let the guys tell you when they arrive.

 

My best, HB

[UhOh]

Hi, thanks. I've just seen you're right, it hasn't been long at all but I am worried sick for my sister (along with being cross as well but trying to balance it wityh some sympathy as she is very remorseful, in tears etc) and also the fact that as the cosmetics were returned intact and no seals broken etc, I don't really see why she should have to pay for them in that instance. I'm also getting frightened at the amount this company seem to demand from people for innocent mistakes as well as purpseful attempts at shoplifting (such as my sister).

 

I don't know if I said above but she did sign a form admitting she understood what had been said to her and admitting she had committed a attempted theft and been caught. Would that make any difference in making her liable to pay any costs?

 

I'm never having children if this is what sisters do to you ;-).

[honeybee13]

Hello again.

 

Were the police called?

 

HB

[renegadeimp]

Going by the OP's first post, no they werent honeybee. It's just RLP up to their usual tricks again.

[UhOh]

No. No police called or even notified. She was asked and did the following;

 

She left the store with the products and was asked to return to the store with their security guard, she was then taken through to a back office and asked to provide name, contact number, N.I number and have her photo taken and asked to sign two forms (a copy for them and herself) and then allowed to leave the store albeit with a lifetime ban of Superdrug and a two year ban at the shopping centre it took place in. She was there for about 40 minutes in total but there was no sign or mention of the police being called and no police officers attended.

[UhOh]

I'm cross with her for shoplifting, I don't deny that's wrong and to be honest it is very out of character for her but the fact is, she caused no damage, was co-operative throughout and this is her first offence (another reason I can't fathom why she did it as she certainly isn't some hardened criminal). I do believe that as she caused no damage and the products were returned in the condition they left the store in, that she should not be charged for them but Superdrug have told her she will have a fine for the value of the products plus admin costs.

[renegadeimp]

For a start, RLP or the shop is NOT allowed her NI number. As for the ban from the centre, give it a week or two and she can go back there. I was banned years ago from my local asda, because a guard grabbed my ex girlfriend with so much force she had a bruised arm. Needless to say i punched the guy hard in the arm. Funnily enough, he didnt call the police once myself and 3 other shoppers said we would be witnesses and press charges against the guard , but i did have to sign a form saying i wouldnt go in the shop again for a year. 2 Weeks later, i walked in with my girlfriend and nothing was said. AFAIK, the guard no longer worked there.

[UhOh]

So the fact she provided her N.I number at their request is a wrongdoing of theirs? I wondered to myself if this was to ensure she didn't slip through the net and end up working for them or them employing her now she has done what she has with them? Were they definitely not allowed her N.I number because if that's true, that does give her a bit of ground to stand on.

Thanks for that .

 

Fair play to you as regards to the security guard as well .

[Pam Dell]

Seems very odd about the NI number.

 

IMO that is the end of the matter.

 

Funny enough i reported a shoplifter on Tuesday from a nationwide store.

 

They got the 2 pieces of steak off of him, was told they never call the police.

 

Won't say which store as an open invitation to shoplift from there.

 

Not the first time i saw shoplifting in that shop either though the 1st time i was too shocked at what i had seen to do anything!

[renegadeimp]

Yes it is their fault uhoh. They are not allowed that information. The person accused of shoplifting only gave it under duress.

 

As for a fine. Nope. Not happening. Only the police/courts can fine someone.

[UhOh]

Hmmm, just been told by a friend's boyfriend (policeman) that they are allowed access to her N.I number :-$. I shall be calling the CAB tomorrow as that seems to be the way to go with this. There is no way she can afford to pay the sort of fine I'm imagining her getting as she is on benefits (£400 per month for everything as living at home with parents and having to pay keep etc out of it).

 

Silly silly girl!

[renegadeimp]

They are not allowed the NI number unless their ICO registration specifically allows it. Never take the word of a policeman on the street, as honestly they know very little of specific laws. This is easily evidenced by those who attend to bailiffs.

[honeybee13]

Hello again.

 

Have you read the CAB report about RLP and similar firms? It's in the yellow stickies section on the titles page of this forum.

 

HB

[UhOh]

Hi both, yes I've just spent a good hour reading through the CAB report on RLP and it has been extremely helpful. I've been swallowed up in panic over sister's future prospects and also trying to calm her down and rationalise things a little as I think she has visions of answering the door one day to see policemen on the doorstep and be carted off in cuffs and thrown in a cell.

 

Having spoken to a friend who is in the RMP (brainwave as I know nobody else in the police) he has said that the store cannot call the police after the event and also, if she does get letters from RLP that they cannot charge her for staff, security time etc etc. All they could have done is either call the police or made her pay for the goods stolen which they didn't do as obviously they took them back.

 

Thanks for all your help, it's helped my nerves, never mind hers! . Hopefully that will be the last of it but I shall take her straight to the CAB if she does get any letters.

 

Hopefully this will be the first and last time, lesson learned I think that this will be a one off performance.

[Sidewinder]

Beware of going straight to CAB. It wouldn't be the first time that they act on the person's behalf, and negotiate repayments with RLP thereby admitting that there is a liability to pay their invoice! If consulting CAB you need to pint out their own reports into CAB and make it clear that you DON'T want them to correspond or speak to RLP in any shape or form.

 

The most constructive advice is to reply once only denying liability to RLP or their client and ignore future correspondence. Superdrug would have to sue your sister, not RLP and the likely cost and the significant risk of losing (another) contested case, with any associated bad publicity would most likely mean that it went no further.

 

It won't stop the letters, each of which will seem more and more threatening, but the most common outcome is that after letters from their appointed debt collector (interesting when no 'debt' has been proved), it will be referred back to Superdrug with a recommendation for court proceedings, but it will go no further.

[eyeinthesky]

Just to set some things straight, when store security ask for a NI number, it is solely for the purposes of indentification. There is no problem with giving this info. If they get other printed ID with address, then they won't be bothered about a NI number.

Stores can, and do, call the police after the event. What is there to stop them? Also, they can show cctv to the police, and if they recognise the suspect, they will take a crime report and go arrest the suspect.

[andydd]

Cant add much more to Sidewinders comments, whilst the NI issue may be a bit odd, if its purely to aid in indentify the (alleged) shoplifter than I cant really see anything wrong with it.

 

Lets hope the large number of posts of this achieves two things, 1, that people are aware of civil recovery and it would appear that there is no real compelling reason to pay the demand and 2, that people think twice about shoplifting, all these stores spend a lot of money of cctv and staff purely to keep an eye on you and thus you are quite likely to get caught, possibly fines and get a criminal record and maybe ruin any future career prospects.

 

Andy

[chunkeeboi]

Hi there,

Don't want to sound arrogant but wanted to help clear things up a little.

 

Civil recovery claims are exactly that, they are civil matters not criminal ones. The store is perfectly entitled to issue your sister with a civil recovery claim for the goods stolen regardless whether they were returned in unused condition or not. On top of this the restore will also add charges relating to wages of store detectives etc. These can rack up considerable costs but they are not fines as one user referred to them, as mentioned before they are civil actions and many of the costs are predetermined by agreements in place with stores and CRC agents anyway. I don't know what happens if you don't pay them as I only used to issue them not follow them up, but as they are civil matters I certainly cannot see police involvement again!

As for the NI number, as mentioned this would be for identification purposes and possibly to assist in the form filling of CRC notices. There is no legal issue as far as I can see with asking this and as your sister supplied it there is not much you could do even if there was.

Finally a store is more than entitled to ban a person from their premises for life or for a certain time. Under law you are 'invited' to shop inside a store and it is a stores right to 'uninvite you'. This is why if you are asked to leave a store and refuse the police will have the power to remove you, shops are not public places, they are places open to the public and they are two different things.

The photo etc. Taken of your sister may have been shared with store detectives of other retailers nearby or with a local crime partnership as most towns and cities have nowadays in order to raise awareness of offences being committed in the area.

[renegadeimp]

The store isnt issuing a civil recovery claim though. Its the third party that are doing so under false pretences. Your entirenpost is a bit suspicious too.

[MARTIN3030]

From HMRC

 

can apply to get one.

Who uses your National Insurance number?

 

You will have to give your National Insurance number to:

 

• HM Revenue & Customs
  
• your employer
  
• Department for Work and Pensions (which includes Jobcentre Plus and Pension, Disability and Carers Service), if you claim state benefits
  
• your local council, if you claim Housing Benefit
  
• the Student Loans Company, if you apply for a student loan
  

You also have to give your National Insurance number if you open an Individual Savings Account (ISA) - follow the first link below for more information.

It's very important you keep your number safe and don't give it to anyone who does not need it.

Edited August 6, 2012 by MARTIN3030

[MARTIN3030]

RLP probably request NI numbers for use with Cireco.

Data collected and stored by Cireco is known to be offered to Employers.

 

 

"Cireco’s main aim is to provide integrity screening services into the U.K. that allows companies to assess the risk to their business from employees prior to recruitment. This is of particular value to companies with a high number of staff in positions of trust involving cash handling and customer credit/debit card processing."

 

http://www.integrityscreening.co.uk/about.html

[2Grumpy]

Civil recovery claims are exactly that, they are civil matters not criminal ones. The store is perfectly entitled to issue your sister with a civil recovery claim for the goods stolen regardless whether they were returned in unused condition or not.

They are only entitled to make a civil claim for their actual losses

On top of this the restore will also add charges relating to wages of store detectives etc. These can rack up considerable costs but they are not fines as one user referred to them, as mentioned before they are civil actions and many of the costs are predetermined by agreements in place with stores and CRC agents anyway.

They are only entitled to claim for wages of staff that were taken from their normal duties. These costs are NOT predetermined by any agreements etc

I don't know what happens if you don't pay them as I only used to issue them not follow them up, but as they are civil matters I certainly cannot see police involvement again!

A bit late for any police action

As for the NI number, as mentioned this would be for identification purposes and possibly to assist in the form filling of CRC notices. There is no legal issue as far as I can see with asking this and as your sister supplied it there is not much you could do even if there was.

Hmmm - probably right as the DPA has no teeth for enforcing the usage of personal data that it might not be entitled to anyway. Of course two wrongs don't make a right but if shops are going to try to take the moral high ground they should stick to the letter of the law and not take liberties themselves ... whoops

Finally a store is more than entitled to ban a person from their premises for life or for a certain time. Under law you are 'invited' to shop inside a store and it is a stores right to 'uninvite you'. This is why if you are asked to leave a store and refuse the police will have the power to remove you, shops are not public places, they are places open to the public and they are two different things.

And if they decide that they don't want anyone in their store they can politely and quietly ask them to leave - that's it.

The photo etc. Taken of your sister may have been shared with store detectives of other retailers nearby or with a local crime partnership as most towns and cities have nowadays in order to raise awareness of offences being committed in the area.

Awareness of alleged crimes can be raised by reporting numbers. Do they have a DPA registration for that?

[MARTIN3030]

Store security have absolutely no rights to demand a persons NI number,nor have they any powers to force compliance.

There are plenty of other acceptable means of identification.