Help appreciated with NRAM arrears fees and charges

[highlandertom]

Hi All, I currently have arrears with my NRAM mortgage, of about £4500,

of that £550 + interest + 8% is arrears and " payment option fees" and a solicitors instruction fee.

 

I usually refuse to talk to them on the phone, but recently did, and let slip that I wanted all fees back,

 

I received a letter in return ( 8 weeks later! ), simply stating that because I had gone into arrears, they "would not remove the fees or interest or charges."

 

So, do I now send them a formal Request for 'repayment of charges',

 

Also because I am in Scotland, do I need to change the wording in the template letter from, 'sue you in the county court' to 'Scottish small claims court' or sheriff court?

 

I would appreciate help with this, Should I be asking in the Scotland forum, or in the Mortgages and secured loan forum?

 

There is a second strand to this,

I found out that NRAM had something called " Loan Modification", they did not ever advise me that it was available?

even though they were allowing me to make agreed reduced payments ( thus increasing my arrears ), and had been told that I was in financial hardship.

 

But when I phoned them about it, from them receiving all requested paperwork, they took at least 5 months to sort out, each time I phoned,

they said " it will have to go to a manager" so through either gross incompetance, or more likely a deliberate policy to raise my arrears!

 

What I mean to ask, is can I claim any of that back? some £1500 extra on arrears + interest!

 

really would appreciate any help/advise

 

many thanks, highlandertom

Edited July 26, 2012 by highlandertom
spelling

[IdaInFife]

Hi HT,

 

I have just the person to advise you, i will give then a tug

 

Ida x

[highlandertom]

Thanks Ida,

 

Part 1 is the wording that needs to be clarified,

Part 2 looks more complex,

 

I have been trying to wrap my head around 'fair treatment' in the FSA handbook, and BCOBS,

and if their 4 months delay and subsequent increase in my arrears and following interest charges will fall under these. but first things first,

 

Should I also send them an SAR, I have most paperwork, but a printout of telephone conversations would be useful. Thanks Tom

Edited July 27, 2012 by highlandertom
to clear up

[Guest GLW]

Tom,

 

Myself included, you are the third Scot I have encountered here having issues with NRAM of being mistreated by them. They seem to me to be out of control... 'A deliberate policy to raise your arrears'? This would not surprise me in the least.

 

NRAM seem to have become nothing but Loan Sharks.

 

On the suggestion of another member here, I am about to start contacting my MP, MSP and will also be lodging a complaint with the OFT in respect of my own treatment. I believe that alerting the politicians to the fact there seems to be a problem with these people might be useful. - If not directly, at least in a broader sense.

[highlandertom]

Right, I've filled in the CISheet v101, interest at 4.79%, but in the arrears template letter it says " I will be prepared to accept the return of my money +8% interest ", so, I am confused, do I claim,

1/ charges + 4.79% compound

2/ charges + 8% compound

3/ charges + 12.79% compound

4/ charges + 4.79% compound = £xxx + 8%

 

Would appreciate help with the above please, also,

 

5/ can I claim for a 'solicitor instruction fee' of £30.00?

 

Thanks highlandertom

 

 

[ims21]

Two threads merged. Please keep to one thread for this issue.

 

The rate you should use is the rate they were charging you because you want any interest that they charged on the unlawful fees refunded as well as the charge itself.

 

As regards the solicitor fee you can ask them for a breakdown of this cost and if it desn't represent the tru cost to them then you can claim it back.

[highlandertom]

Thanks for that ims21, apologies, still trying to understand the rules of the forum.

NRAM sent me a letter ( Aberdeen considine ) asking for 'a proposal to clear arrears' They want an income/expenditure. They already had one in december for a second years application for loan modification, they refused an estimated one, but worked from the previous years self employed figures. But now they want an estimated I/E form? I'll phone them tomorrow, and report back.

[highlandertom]

Hi All, Sorry for the lack of update, I have had a busy 6 weeks or so, but have been reading on cag extensively, trying to learn. I felt pressured into contacting NRAM by phone to give them a I/E, because of a 'repossession threat letter' from Aberdeen Cosidine Solicitors, apparently?

However the letter contained errors? missed a payment I had made, and listed fees, that NRAM then denied on the phone! said it might be " human error LOL. I spent over an hour on the phone trying to sort out what fees had been applied? was given a list, some apparently, I was told, had not been applied, others that hd apparently been refunded, but did not show on the statements, but the operator " was unable to supply that information in writing - was not refusing, but was unable to".......Aye, right!

So I sent them a SAR on 28th aug. no acknowlegement yet, so waiting for that, and then I assume that I will need to chase them for the stuff that they will fail to supply? I have also asked my accountant to check all their figures.

I now think that NRAM must be dealt with as a DCA, they are acting in exactly the same manner, threats, multiple phone calls, providing misleading information and contadicting both what they have written, and what they say.

 

All this on top of an incredibly high interest rate!

[highlandertom]

Hi,

 

I sent an SAR to the data controller NRAM. They received it on the 28th August. I have had no response at all? and they have not apparently cashed the £10 postal order. The statutary 40 days is up on sunday, this is information I need, inorder to begin reclaiming Fees etc. So I need to send them something a bit more threatening? is this suitable?

 

Gazza112 Vs Halifax Credit Card

You'd have to write back asking for descriptions of the notations they have used.

 

I would also send them a SAR non-compliance letter as well. Incorporate the request for descriptions in there too.

Amend this letter to suit -

 

 

 

Your Name

Your Address

Your Town

Your County

Your Postcode

 

Date 2009

The Company Secretary

The Creditor

Creditors address

Creditors Town

Creditors county

Creditors postcode

letter before action

Section 7(1) – Data Protection Act 1998

 

 

Account: XXXXXXXXXXXX

 

 

 

 

Dear Sir / Madam,

 

 

You have failed to comply with my Data Protection Act Subject access request

 

I will remind you as to what documents I expect.

 

The following is by no means an exhaustive list but in the main this is what I require.

 

Please supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to ALL accounting history with your organisation. Alternatively, a complete set of statements for that period will be acceptable.

 

Additionally, all records you hold on me relevant to this account, including but not limited to:

 

1. A transcript of all transactions, including charges, fees, interest, repayments and payments and both the original amount of the loan and any repayments made to the account.

 

2. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company

 

3. Where there has been any event in my accounts history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account. If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response

 

4. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notices that you may have sent to me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

 

5. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted.

 

6. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

 

7. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

 

8. A genuine copy of any deed of assignment, or proof that you have a legal right to this money.

 

9. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

 

10. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

 

11. A copy of all account statements for the duration of the agreement.

 

12. Please would you also advise me of the logic involved in any automated decisions taken by you about me pursuant to section 7(1) (d) of the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

13. A True copy of the consumer credit agreement section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act of 1974 for the account.

 

14. Any Other information relating to this account.

 

If you do not comply within the next 14 days I shall seek a Court order obliging you to do so together with damages at the discretion of the Court and without any further notice.

 

 

Yours Faithfully,

print your name here

Obviously sent 1st recorded, (special delivery?)

With thanks to Gazza,

many thanks, highlandertom

 

Mod's, When I click on 'started threads' in my account - nothing comes up?

[highlandertom]

Hi,

 

Would really appreciate some help here. What do I do next to force NRAM to compy with my SAR request? Is the format of the above letter correct? obviously changed for my circumstances. Also I am in Scotland, so what court route would I take.

 

many thanks Tom

[maroondevo52]

Hi Tom.

 

I sent a SAR request to them on the 20th of August and received my reply on saturday the 8th October, though I sent mines to Northern Rock Mortages, Northern Rock House, Gosforth, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE3 4PL.

 

DPA non-compliance should be dealt with by a complaint to the Information Commissioner in the first instance, not the court.

 

Some info here..............

 

http://govanlc.com/info_commissioner.htm

 

Regarding your question about not finding your threads, we are having some small problems with the site at the moment but things are being worked on and should be back shortly.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[highlandertom]

Many thanks Maroondevo52.

 

I sent my SAR to,

 

The Data Controller,

NRAM plc.

Northern Rock House,

Gosforth,

Newcastle upon Tyne,

NE3 4PL

With a £10.00 postal order. They received this on 28/08/2012, and err.....nothing, no response, and they have not yet cashed the postal order?

 

Thanks for the info, I'll get a recorded letter off to the Information Commissioner today, unfortunately, I did not think to photocopy the PO. getting a bit buried in paperwork, but have the PO. receipt and info, I'll also make a formal complaint to NRAM..

 

thanks again, Tom

[maroondevo52]

You sent it to the correct address then, I also sent a PO, you may hear from them shortly.

[highlandertom]

Well..... It took them more than 5 months to process paperwork before, won't hold my breath. The more complaints registered against these incompetent and dishonest clowns the better! They have been treating me with contempt for years now, and I have had enough All of us stuck with NRAM should band together. Tom

[highlandertom]

Hi,

 

Well finally, I have received this morning, an inch thick lump of paperwork, dated 29th sept 12, 2 weeks to get here? The accompanying letter says,

 

"Subject Access Request

 

Thankyou for your recent enquiry.

 

Please find enclosed information, which has been released under section 7 of the Data Protection Act and includes all material held by us in relation to the above account.

 

Call recordings and screen notes are not readily accessible data, therefore if you do require copies of specific calls please provide us with dates and times and we will do our utmost to retieve them.

 

If you need further help please call.... blah blah"

 

Are they taking the ****? I specifically asked for transcripts of ALL call recordings and screen notes and internal correspondence.

 

Have they broken the law? by providing only a partial response to my request.

 

I did speak to the ICO, who had advised me to make a formal complaint to NRAM before they would get involved, I did that on the 9th oct.they recd. 10/10/12, printed name VIRGIN according to royal mail?

 

I have just spoken to ICO again, they have said that I should write to them giving information and time lines, because I now have a valid complaint, because NRAM has failed under the 40 days.

 

ICO also sugested that I formally complain to NRAM and ask for all information not yet received, so both of those will be in the post tomorrow, 1st. recorded.

 

Tom

[highlandertom]

Right, I've had time to go through it all, half of it was info that I had sent to them, bank statements etc. the rest was statements to the begining of this year, and my application doc's.

 

I already hold ALL of that, plus 2 or 3 times more.

 

They sent NO in-house stuff, no telephone transcripts, etc, so sent off this morning,

 

" NRAM Mortgage Operations

PO Box 625

Durham

DH1 9JJ

 

14th October 2012

ACCOUNT/REF NUMBER:

 

 

Dear Mr Matthew Kleynhans

 

I posted a Subject Access Request, under the Data Protection Act 1998 on the 24th aug 2012, you received that and signed for it on 28th aug 2012. I received no acknowledgement of this request. I received only a partial response to my request on 12th Oct. 2012.

This is a deliberate and cynical attempt to withhold information about me that I am legally entitled to. I have today made a formal complaint to the IOC. Stating that you were late in responding, and that you have failed to fulfill your obligations under the act. I have enclosed copies of all paperwork, proofs of postage and receipt by you, and the attached letter from you.

I have enclosed a copy of my SAR, for your convenience, and not withstanding your comment “ are not readily available” you are obliged under law to provide all information you hold, in all and in any media format. Should you continue to withhold this information, I will take my complaint to whatever statuary authorities I deem fit, this will include my MP."

Now, who are they 'governed by' ? I use the term loosely. Are NRAM covered by BCOBS for unfair treatment? Who can I get to make them toe some kind of line?

Also note - they are now only issuing 1 ( ONE ) statement per year!! Would you trust your bank to only issue 1 statement per year? they have been giving me information on the phone ( I will no longer talk to them, insisting on written comunication only ) which conflicts with the witten info I have. But then the written info conflicts with itself? Fraud surely.

Ticked off tom

[miss money worry]

Good Luck!! I am having pretty much the same issues....

[alec241]

Hi , I have read your post with interest Highlandertom . I have been having issues along the same lines as you . So i am just going to start and ask for SAR and crack on the long rd i guess .

[highlandertom]

Hi Alec,

 

Yep, it will all take time. They will lie to you on the phone, and mislead you by letter, and at 5pm, they will go home and forget all about you, it's just work! But, for me it is personal, so just got to plug away.

 

My complaint has been received by ICO on 29/10/12, so waiting for them to sort out the late and laughably inadequate SAR response.

 

Going to send off the attached letter and compound interest spread sheet, in order to reclaim ARREARS FEES and PAYMENT OPTION FEES + 4.79% interest.

 

01. Oct. 2012

Dear Sir/Madam

Mortgage account number xxxxxxxxxxxx – request for repayment of charges

 

I am writing to you to request the refund of £xxx.00 arrears charges and payment option fee’s, which you have levied against me in respect of my account, and compound interest at 4.79% which is £xxx.xx. Please note that this total increases by £x.xx per day in interest, so please adjust accordingly.

 

These charges had been levied against me unlawfully because they are excessive and therefore unfair.

 

I am sure that you are aware of the recent decisions by the Financial Services Authority in Deutschebank and also in Redstone. The Financial Services Authority made it very clear that mortgage arrears charges should reflect the actual cost of dealing with the arrears. It is very clear that your charges are calculated to produce a high margin of profit for you.

 

Furthermore your charges are unfair and therefore unlawful under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations. Although a test case in 2009 decided that overdraft charges for personal bank accounts could not be assessed for fairness, this decision from the Supreme Court was limited to charges which form part of the court revenue of the banks. Your charges are not part of your core revenue. They are incidental to your main business and therefore they fall to be assessed for fairness. This means that they must be proportionate and that they must truly reflect your administrative costs.

 

I am prepared to sue you in the Scottish Small Claims Court if you will not repay me. If I do sue you in the Scottish Small Claims Court I shall be seeking an order for restitutionary damages and costs, this means that you will be obliged to hand over to me all the benefit that you have had from the money that you have taken from me unlawfully.

 

If you are prepared to act quickly and to refund me my money without any trouble, then I will be prepared to accept the return of my money + 4.79% COMPOUND INTEREST which is the amount which would be awarded in normal circumstances by Scottish Courts or by the Financial Ombudsman.

Please note that I am not prepared to wait for your normal eight week delay. This is an industry time period which has been agreed with the FSA. I don't think that I would be prepared to accept your violations of FSA rules on one hand while you then attempt to rely on some FSA guideline on the other.

 

If I do not hear from you within 14 days of this letter then I will begin proceedings in the Scottish Small Claims Court without any further notice.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

[ATTACH]39092[/ATTACH]

 

 

Could a mod take a look please, and let me know if I have got it right.

 

many thanks, Tom

[ims21]

Hi

 

I've unapproved the spreadsheet because it appears that personal information has been left in there.

 

The sheet looks to be completed correctly though

[highlandertom]

Thanks ims,

my apologies, I just hit the black triangle. I'll pop this into the post, 1st. recorded now, and report back as things proceed.

 

best regards, Tom

[citizenB]

Keep us updated on this, please

[Eric40]

Hi ims21 and other on here. See post below where my other half has similar issues with NRAM and need advice. ims21 has been a great help so far with BoS stuff, so moving on to my other halves debts with NRAM, explained below, thanks

 

The NR stuff I do need help with and not sure where to start to be honest. I got my other half to write to them a while back requesting a copy of his original agreement which they sent out. I still cannot understand why he signed it, the interest is unbelievable, but he honestly doesn't know any better and trusts too much.

He took out a mortgage in November 2004 for £71,245.00 along with an unsecured loan £22,498.00

He sold his flat back in December 2008 but still now has the unsecured loan to pay. The initial interest rate was 7.1% but having paid off the mortgage with the sale of his flat the it states that the unsecured loan will increase to 5.00% above the current standard variable rate for mortgages. He is not making the slightest dent in what he owes the interest he is paying is shocking and he will be paying it off for the next 20 years. He had no idea what he was letting himself in for and has got himself in a right mess with this one.

I have bits and pieces of statements and I'm sure you can imagine the interest he is paying is on par with the monthly DB he is paying so it's going to take forever just based on the interest rate, it's criminal!

Also I've noticed on a statement back in 2007 where he must have asked for help and on the statement they have charged him £52.88 for debt counselling and £30.00 for solicitor help, I can only guess that he's seeked help from them when falling behind with payments and they've increased his debt by charging him for the service, that's nuts!

Should I be issuing some sort of SAR on this based on the charges and is there something else I can do to help him re the interest rate?

 

I'm on a role tonight and doing as much as I can.

 

Many thanks again!!!

Erica

[smokejumper]

i think the debt councelling charge is for someone to call round and if you keep the meeting then they do not charge.

 

NRAM are just interested in paying back the handout as quick as they can at everyone elses doom.

 

The people chasing all this money fail to realise they will be out of a job when NRAM is folded up.

[alec241]

Hi Highlander Tom ,

 

Still going through the motions now onto FSA .

 

Question I have noticed that my NR mortgage paper work 1/ was for mortgage 2/ Unsecured Loan further down the years this has been changed to secured loan , nothing has been mentioned and nothing signed by myself or my wife, just seen it on my yearly statement any heads up on this ??