notice of seizure, vehicle levy, council tax bill and baliffs... HELP???

[jack_sparrow]

hi everyone,

 

ive been reading through posts for the past hour or so now, i cannot believe i never realised any of this kind of stuff went on with bailiffs and our own councils!

 

grab a cup of tea and a biscuit as this might go on a while!...

 

im looking for a little advice on a council tax bill i was blissfully unaware that i owed...

 

i moved back in with my parents in december last year and with all the upheaval i simply never thought to tell the council, since then apparently they have been sending council tax demands to my old address which i have obviously not been receiving.

 

the other day i returned home from work to find a bailiffs note/letter through the letterbox saying i owed around £600 and must pay it instantly or they would be taking the cars on the drive (my parents were on holiday at the time and both cars belong to my dad)

 

i immediately rang the number on the letter to find out what was going on, i was told there was a unpaid council tax bill and i must pay now or they will return with a van and a tow truck!... i refused as i wanted to check what was happening with the council first.

the next morning i contacted the council and straightened out the situation and later informed them via email the date i left the property. the following day i received a letter from the council with an amended council tax demand for £175 and a hand written note on the bottom saying that this should be paid to the bailiff.

 

no problem i figured i would wait for them to arrive again and pay the 175 and job done.

 

on returning from work this evening i found a 'notice of seizure of goods and inventory' posted through the door with the only thing listed on it being my dads porsche which was on the driveway (im yet to tell him!) and hand wirtten on this notice was an outstanding balance of £380 to be paid within 5 days or the car is gone! i dont know how the bill has managed to more than double from what the council told me i owed?

 

i decided it would be best to pay the council direct so have just paid the 175.13 on the councils website...

 

my questions now are where do i stand if the bailiffs return?

 

do they have any claim over my dads car simply because i live in there house?

 

are they able to do anything to/with the £20k car for a supposed £380.63 but really £175.13 debt?

 

have i done right by paying the bill online to the council?

 

any help would be much appreciated as its now the weekend and im certain the council dont do saturdays so ill be pulling my hair out all weekend!

 

many thanks in advance...

 

Jay

Edited July 20, 2012 by jack_sparrow

[jack_sparrow]

may also be worth mentioning that all that is stated in the inventory section of the seizure notice is the registration number to the car on the drive, this will be changing tomorrow as his private plate has just just been registered to his new car! so where does that leave them??

[dx100uk]

no dice Mr biliff

 

the cars are not your

 

and pay the council what you owe by your internet banking site or their automated payment line.

 

never ever pay a bailiff,

 

dx

[lookinforinfo]

You were correct in paying the Council direct. The bailiffs would have added on all sorts of extra fees.

 

I am confused as to how the bailiff turned up at your parents house since I would have expected that the warrant would have been addressed to your old home.

If that is then case, then the bailiffs have no business pursuing you at your parents home . And even if the warrant is addressed to your parents house, the bailiffs

CANNOT levy on your Fathers car.

 

Send an email to the bailiffs advising them that they have levied on your Fathers car which they cannot do as your Father does not owe them anything. Also advise them that you

have been in contact with the Council who have amended the sum to £175 and you have already paid them. In addition ask them why they are knocking at your parents door when

the warrant is for your old address. If they still turn up to clamp/seize the vehicle sit in the car and call the police as what they would be doing is theft. You might have to work a bit

with the police as many are not up to speed on Bailiff legislation.

 

Next, email the Council reminding them to cancel the bailiffs as you have already paid the outstanding amount.

 

Do NOT pay the bailiffs any money whatever they say. Even for visits. If the warrant is for your old address they were wrong to call to your parents house without first returning

the warrant for alteration.

[i hate bailiffs]

any liability order the council have has been settled so bailiffs have no right to be on your property

 

the levy they have is invalid

 

at most all bailiffs can expect is first visit fee of £24.50

 

i would contact the council as bailiffs are there agents and they should call them off

 

contact your local mp

[hallowitch]

hi jack welcome to CAG can you please tel us what council and bailiff firm you are dealing with

 

to keep yourself right you need to pay 2 visit fees £42.50 the bailiff has visited twice he is therefore legally entitled to these fees

 

your council may pay the £42.50 from the payment you made to them leaving an outstanding balance against the liability order £42.50

 

as for the levy on your dads car you send an e-mail to the bailiff firm and the revenues department of your council informing them them that the levy is invalid as the car does not belong to you

 

they may ask you provide proof by way of v5 or insurance docs

 

its up to you/your dad if he wants to provide them with this info because all bailiff firms can check with the dvla to confirm ownership

 

the council/bailiffs wont/shouldn't remove the car without checking

 

 

ohhh and just to let you know at this sage of enforcement and with a valid levy on a debt of £175.13 you bailiff fees would have been £71

[hallowitch]

Do NOT pay the bailiffs any money whatever they say. Even for visits. If the warrant is for your old address they were wrong to call to your parents house without first returning

the warrant for alteration

 

not for council tax its a liability order not a warrant and the bailiff is entitled to pursue the debtor at any address

 

having said that i have always thought the 14 day letter should be sent to the new address before the bailiffs are sent out

 

Information preliminary to distress

 

 

45A.—(1) No distress shall be made under these regulations unless, no less than 14 days before a visit in connection with the distress is first made to the premises where it is to be levied , the authority have sent to the debtor written notice of the matters specified in paragraph (2) below.

 

(2) The matters are—

 

(a)the fact that a liability order has been made against the debtor;

 

(b)the amount in respect of which the liability order was made and, where this is a different amount, the amount which remains outstanding;

 

©a warning that unless the amount specified has been paid before the expiry of 14 days beginning on the date of the sending of the notice, distress may be levied;

 

(d)notice that if distress is levied further costs will be incurred by the debtor;

 

(e)the fees prescribed in Schedule 5 to these Regulations;

 

(f)the address and telephone number at which the debtor can communicate with the authority.”

[jack_sparrow]

ok well its all kinda what i was hoping to hear... ill email the bailiffs in a minute and let them know the bill has been settled with the council and that the car does not belong to me therefore their levy thing is invalid and the bill has been paid... is there any specific wording i should use?

 

when i initially spoke to the bailiff after i got the first letter i was told they would check the cars that were on the drive and if either were registered to me then they would levy them... looks like they forgot to do that.

 

i forgot to mention earlier that the debt was with Amber Valley council in derbyshire and the bailiff company is called Julious.

[hallowitch]

The Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992

 

Distress

 

 

45.—(1) Where a liability order has been made, the authority which applied for the order may levy the appropriate amount by distress and sale of the goods of the debtor against whom the order was made.

 

(2) The appropriate amount for the purposes of paragraph (1) is the aggregate of—

 

(a)an amount equal to any outstanding sum which is or forms part of the amount in respect of which the liability order was made, and

 

(b)a sum determined in accordance with Schedule 5 in respect of charges connected with the distress.

 

(3) If, before any goods are seized, the appropriate amount (including charges arising up to the time of the payment or tender) is paid or tendered to the authority, the authority shall accept the amount and the levy shall not be proceeded with.

 

 

you need to pay the schedule 5 charges £42.50

 

you should also send the e-mail to council

 

A simple letter stating that the Vehicle reg no ABC 123 does not belong to you a dvla check will confirm this you request they remove the levy and any associated fees

[jack_sparrow]

this is my draft so far? anything else i should add or chance before i hit send??

 

 

 

i am writing with reference to your 'notice of seizure of goods and inventory' posted through my parents door.

 

your ref: XXXXX

 

council tax reference: XXXXXXXXX

 

you have placed a levy/seizure on a car which does not belong to myself; namely vehicle with registration mark XXXXXXX, a check with the DVLA will verify that i have no association with this vehicle, if required i am also able to provide a copy of the V5 registration document and insurance documents to confirm this.

 

i am therefore requesting that, with immediate effect, this invalid levy/seizure be removed from this vehicle along with any associated fees incurred.

 

further more, after receiving an amended notice from Amber Valley council showing the amount owed, the payment was subsequently made for the full amount. for reference the receipt number for the payment is ZZXXXXXXXXXX8.

 

a printed copy of this mail will be sent to both yourselves and Amber Valley Borough Council.

 

Regards

 

[hallowitch]

if required i am also able to provide a copy of the V5 registration document and insurance documents to confirm this.

 

 

remove this wait to see if they ask for it

[lookinforinfo]

Do we know for certain that the l/o was addressed to the parents home. Until it is known for certain should the bailiff be paid for what is actually an unlawful levy?

[brassnecked]

Do we know for certain that the l/o was addressed to the parents home. Until it is known for certain should the bailiff be paid for what is actually an unlawful levy?

 

No levy fee should not be paid, but the two visit fees totalling £42.50 should, to make sure the bailiff has no reason to return, if he does he will be in the poo then.

[outlawla]

Just a thought about how much the council stated you owed, i.e. what makes up the £175?

 

Is it possible there's an element of bailiff fees in that?

 

There will certainly be court costs if the bailiffs are involved (summons/liability order). I've looked for how much Amber Valley Borough council charge for these but found no records, however they could amount to £100 or more.

 

My point is that they've penalised you merely for an oversight about informing the council when you moved out a property. Would be handy to know what proportion of the £175 is actually outstanding council tax.

Edited July 21, 2012 by outlawla

[jack_sparrow]

well the letter i got from the council states i owe

 

charge for property for period 10.06.2011 to 01.12.2011

 

council tax for band a £482.51

 

single person discount -£120.63

 

total council tax benefit granted -£231.61

 

total charge for period £130.27

 

payments -£15.14

 

court costs £60

 

total council tax payable £175.13

[wonkeydonkey]

It would seem to me, the liability order can be seen to be invalid as the amount differs from the debt actually owed, have you asked to see the actual liability order the Council obtained? If they have applied for the LO using incorrect information they have misled the Magistrate authorising the order?? and it follows they should not have instructed bailiff's to aid and abet their own maladministration????

 

WD

[outlawla]

So the council added 52% in court costs on top of what was outstanding on your council tax. This is before the bailiff tried to make that 330%.

 

£60 for sending a summons is still extortionate, but compared with other councils is a bargain.

 

Presumably you were not aware of any reminder, threatening or summons correspondence as they would have been sent to your old address.

 

It's highly unlikely your council would willingly agree to cancelling the summons penalty, but if they were reasonable (not cash grabbing oppressors) they would. Worth a try maybe?

 

You could put your local rag right on a point by the way:

 

 

Bailiffs set to go in and seize goods from council tax debtors

"

BAILIFFS were given permission to enter the homes of more than 200 people who together owe more than £100,000 to a Derbyshire council

."

 

They write any old rubbish these amateur journalists. Strictly speaking they wouldn't have been given permission to do this on the strength of a liability order.

Edited July 21, 2012 by outlawla

[jack_sparrow]

Well this morning I Recieved this email which was also cc'd to the bailiffs...

 

To confirm £175.13* has been paid over the weekend. I am copying this email to the bailiff to ensure that they update their records and note the direct payment made.

*

Please note that the bailiff may still proceed in relation to any* statutory fees incurred that they have incurred to date.

*

Martin Hendy*|*Revenues Collection Manager*

Amber Valley Borough Council

Financial Services Department*| Town Hall, Ripley, Derbyshire, DE5 3BT

 

So Do I now just wait to hear from them to see what fees they would like to charge me? Seems kinda worrying?

[wonkeydonkey]

Technically you have had two visits from the bailiff ( letter visits) and owe in total £42.50 in fees, the 'levy' was invalid so no fee for that.

 

Personally I would pay the £42.50 to the bailff and if he comes back for more tell him you would be delighted to be bound to the amount he seeks, if the Courts should make further order it is legally owed to him?????

 

WD

[dx100uk]

this thread is 12mts old

 

dx

[ploddertom]

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