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Will i get a criminal record or any record for breaching the railway bye law 18.1?


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Hi,

 

I've been summoned to court and have been told that i am alleged to have breached the bye law offence 18.1 which i accept and agree with. It goes on to say that if found guilty that i will have to prosecution costs of £110. However it doesn't mention anything about a criminal record or recordable conviction. So for this offence do i get a criminal record or any record for that matter? Help would be much appreciated.

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Hi mallow

 

Welcome to CAG

 

The guys will be happy to advise as soon as they are available. You will need to give them the full story, so they can advise you.

 

Please let us know how your problem has been resolved, it could help fellow Caggers.

 

Thread has been moved to the correct forum.

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Hi Rebel,

 

I was basically travelling on a train without a valid train ticket, i did not realise it was out of date. Then was reported, given an intention to prosecute and now i've been summoned. The offence commited being breaching the bye law 18.1 and if found guilty i have to pay prosecution costs of £110.

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Hi Rebel,

 

I was basically travelling on a train without a valid train ticket, i did not realise it was out of date. Then was reported, given an intention to prosecute and now i've been summoned. The offence commited being breaching the bye law 18.1 and if found guilty i have to pay prosecution costs of £110.

 

From : http://www.merseyrail.org/about-us/prosecutions.html

 

Q:Will I get a criminal record?

A: If found guilty of a Byelaw offence, it may appear on an enhanced CRB CHECK but if you are found guilty of a Railway regulation act 1889 section 5 offence, then this would show up on any CRB CHECK. If you pay the administrative penalty, this will enable us to withdraw your case from court, and consequently you will have no CRB RECORD.

 

So, if this is an 18.1 bylaw "failed to show valid ticket":

A) it is a " strict offence" so they don't have to prove intent to 'fare dodge', but

B) if convicted it may show on an enhanced CRB

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Ok thanks BazzaS, so if i pay the administrative penalty that they have imposed which is the prosecution costs of £110 then i should not get a record?

 

correct! Only a court can impose that conviction.

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Ok thanks BazzaS, so if i pay the administrative penalty that they have imposed which is the prosecution costs of £110 then i should not get a record?

 

No record if settled out of court.

 

If taken to court and found (or plead) guilty : A criminal record which may well show on an Enhanced CRB.

 

If the are proceeding under Bylaw 18.1 it is a strict liability offence : they don't have to show intent to avoid a fare, only that you failed to show on demand a valid ticket, unless you can show one of the statutory exemptions as a reason to be 'not guilty'.

 

If they "have you bang to rights" try to get them to settle out of court.

If they won't accept an offer to settle out of court (& they don't have to!) I fear you'll find it hard to avoid a conviction without a better reason than "didn't realise it was out of date" - what have you done to see if they'll accept a settlement out of court?.

Edited by BazzaS
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Yes they have said if found guilty i have to pay £110 prosecution costs but have given me the option of pleading guilty and not attending court. Furthermore they have enclosed forms for me to send to the court and rail way company if i wish to plead guity and accept what they said and they have put an form assessing my ability to pay the fine.

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Yes they have said if found guilty i have to pay £110 prosecution costs but have given me the option of pleading guilty and not attending court. Furthermore they have enclosed forms for me to send to the court and rail way company if i wish to plead guity and accept what they said and they have put an form assessing my ability to pay the fine.

 

Which will leave you with the conviction / criminal record .. which I fear you will find hard to avoid unless you can perusade them to offer a settlement out of court. Again, is this an option you have followed so far?

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Hi Bazza,

 

I thought by pleading guilty and not attending court and paying the costs this would stop me getting a record?

 

Pleading guilty means the court doesn't have to decide if you are guilty or not, it means you accept your guilt.

You get credit from the court by way of a reduced penalty, but it is still a conviction.

 

Accepting your error and persuading them to settle out of court avoids a conviction / record.

Court and guilty (by plea or being found guilty) = record.

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No record if settled out of court.

 

If taken to court and found (or plead) guilty : A criminal record which may well show on an Enhanced CRB.

 

If the are proceeding under Bylaw 18.1 it is a strict liability offence : they don't have to show intent to avoid a fare, only that you failed to show on demand a valid ticket, unless you can show one of the statutory exemptions as a reason to be 'not guilty'.

 

If they "have you bang to rights" try to get them to settle out of court.

If they won't accept an offer to settle out of court (& they don't have to!) I fear you'll find it hard to avoid a conviction without a better reason than "didn't realise it was out of date" - what have you done to see if they'll accept a settlement out of court?.

 

 

Just a little factual correction,

 

If you have been charged with breach of National Railway Byelaw 18.1(2005), the offence is 'Did fail to pay the appropriate fare and did fail to obtain a valid ticket before boarding a train'

 

There is a clear distinction;

 

"Did fail to show a ticket for verification on request by an officer of the railway" is a breach of Byelaw 18.2, not 18.1.

 

They are both strict liability matters

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Well i'm going to plead guity on the form and sent it to the courts and train company along with my fine form which assesses my ability to pay the fine. As far as i know if you are convicted of breaching bye law 18.1 you do not get a criminal record and it is non-recordable but still a criminal matter.

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Well i'm going to plead guity on the form and sent it to the courts and train company along with my fine form which assesses my ability to pay the fine. As far as i know if you are convicted of breaching bye law 18.1 you do not get a criminal record and it is non-recordable but still a criminal matter.

 

Yes, that is correct.

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So the fact they've given me the option of pleading guilty and not attending the court summons and giving me a form to assess my ability to pay the prosecution costs that the train company has imposed if i'm charged, could be seen as an out of court settlement?

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If the letter is from the TOC and not the court, then strictly speaking it is costs and an administrative penalty, as only a court can impose a fine.

However, if you can settle out of court by paying any penalty and costs : Do so.

It likely won't be any more than you'd end up paying in court, and nothing will be recorded on even an Enhanced CRB.

 

If its a court form to plead guilty, then it isn't an out of court settlement, and still may show on an enhanced CRB.

 

I take it you have accepted your error, offered an apology & given an undertaking (or expect to be warned) not to repeat such an error?

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Yes the manager told me just to email him back, i just replied by accepting that i was in the wrong and not to repeat the offence again and explained i was willing to pay for any costs.

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The letter that is asking me to pay £110 prosecution costs is from the train operating company. But they've also given me a plead guilty form to send to the court.

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The letter that is asking me to pay £110 prosecution costs is from the train operating company. But they've also given me a plead guilty form to send to the court.

 

Expect a conviction, and record on an enhanced CRB. This is a guilty plea, not an out of court settlement if there is a "plead guilty form to send to the court".

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Its not a criminal record but it may appear on a enhanced CRB. Bye laws are different to normal laws. Although its a conviction but non-recordable.

 

Ok then : what section of the enhanced CRB do you believe it will show under? The cautions & convictions part, list 99, or "other information at the Chief Officer of Police's discretion"?

 

It's a criminal conviction, and a criminal record, except it is only recordable as far as for the purposes of an Enhanced CRB (or for that matter, once 'spent' : for posts exempt from the provisions of the Rehabilitation of Offenders legislation).

 

This is a reason why it is preferable to seek an out of court settlement if you can, which is mutually exclusive with "guilty plea form going back to the court" : unless you can get them to settle outside of court (even "on the courtroom steps" if need be!)

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