Expired CCJ on Student Loans now being pursued by Link Financial

[PointyFacedCat]

Sorry have been really busy the last few days and only able to check your response now.

 

Thanks again for your help and trying to answer all my questions!

[vanlink]

I have read this thread with interest,

particularly Section 24 and this mention of the 'creditor can apply to the court for an extension to a ccj after 6 years but this is rare';

 

It is not possible to apply for an extension only to ask for enforcement orders.

 

Section 24 is quite clear to me that, an action cannot be instigated on a judgement after 6 years.

 

Unfortunately judges can make their own rules up.

 

As for rare and courts looking unfavourably on the creditor after the 6 years; simply not true.

 

I know because i have a creditor trying to push an Attachment of earnings Order after 6 years on me.

The judge said it is quite common for companies to do it because they have given you a chance to rebuild your life,

get a good job and acquire some assets.

I am trying to argue section 24.

Fingers crossed.

I do not have time to go into detail now as i have to get to work but will try and give more detail tomorrow.

[dx100uk]

might be an idea to start a new thread

 

see below.

 

 

dx

 

 

 

C

redit

R

eference

A

gencies

:

Experian

Equifax

CallCredit

noddle

 

Sort Your Debts Now - Follow this excellent guide-

here

 

How To Start Your Own Thread

:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...on-Group-forum

1. Single Premium PPI Q&A

Read Here

2. Reclaim mis-sold PPI

Read Here

3. Reclaim Loan & Credit Card Charges

Read Here

4. The CAG Interest Tutorial

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5. Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

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6. Staying Calm About Debt

Read Here

7. Thinking of a Full & Final Settlement?

Read Here

my views are my own...seek legal advice if ness

NEVER EVER

- act on a private message asking you to visit another website, make contact 'off list' or by telephone

-

alert the siteteam IMMEDIATELY by hitting the black warning triangle on any message -

Particularly if this results in a request to pay a fee to help you.

rather than hittting to be my friend - hit the star

DX

Siteteam

 

[PointyFacedCat]

Hi again everyone,

 

Thanks for your post vanlink - is worrying to me, am kind of frightened as to what will happen if this does all end up going back to court! Would be interested to know how you get on. Hope your section 24 argument works.

 

Update:

 

I have still not had any response from Honours regarding my Student Loans, even though the Statute Barred latter I sent them recorded delivery is showing as signed for 9 days ago! I am hoping this is a good sign?!

 

With regards to my partners debts and Link, I have been fannying about for ages trying to decide what to do/say, but cannot put off my response any longer. (He's still not really capable of dealing with this sort of thing which is why I'm doing it for him, or trying to anyway!).

 

As a point of interest Link rang my partners parents yesterday (on an ex-directory number!). I think this is highly unethical as they know he no longer lives there as they are corresponding with him at our address, not his parents! Also they told his parents that they wanted to speak to him regarding student loans - I think this is a breach of the Data Protection Act! Naughty!

 

I have decided to send a letter later today that sort of combines all of the advice I have received, the jist of this letter is detailed below;

 

Am going to say that I do not acknowledge the debt.

 

I'm going to request that they provide dates and copies of court documents for the original CCJ and for when they got it substituted to themselves, (because of CPR 19.5 saying it has to be substituted within 6 years of original judgement).

 

Assuming they can actually provide the above then I'm also going to ask to see a copy of court documents proving that they've been back to court to request enforcement action on an expired CCJ, and have got it granted. (due to Limitation Act 1980 section 24).

 

If they can't provide any of the above I'm asking them to send a letter saying the matter is closed and there'll be no further contact.

 

Am also going to say that I'm compiling a complaint to send to the OFT and relevant authorities for them unethically and quite probably illegally representing themselves as having a current CCJ that they can enforce, and regarding them phoning his parents and breaking DPA!

 

Hope this all sounds ok. As always any advice/comments/suggestions are greatly appreciated.

 

Cheers x

[dx100uk]

good points

 

dx

[Mike_hawk]

All good and valid points pfc, perhaps a complaint to the i.c.o in addition regarding breach of dpa

 

Have a look at s35 of the limitation act re: substitution, may assist with the content of your letter

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1980/58/section/35

[PointyFacedCat]

Hi Phil,

 

Thanks for that, I ran out of ink yesterday so couldn't print letter, but was actually glad as gave me a chance to read your post.

 

Have finally posted the letter today by recorded delivery and I added a point regarding s35 of Limitation act re. substitution to the letter.

 

Thanks for all your help ( and D and cerberusalert too), it really helps to be able to ask questions and run ideas past other people.

 

Will let you know how it goes, fingers crossed!

 

Pointy Faced Cat x

[renegadeimp]

In regards to the ccj its virtually impossible for them to chase it up. A judge granting orders after 6 years whe the creditor hasnt chased it up is rare. A judge granting orders after 11 years when nothing is being chased up is pretty much unheard of.

[supertramper]

OP

I too am being chased by Link Financial in exactly the same circumstances as your partner

- I have only had phone calls from them and no letters to date

- they called me yesterday to tell me that as the CCJ had been taken out on the debt that Statute Barring did not apply

- I was extremely worried as you have been

- thankfully I have had some advice on this forum to settle my mind at rest.

 

I am going to wait for the paperwork

(they have already sent it once apparantly) and then have a look back through your threads to type them a lovely letter.

 

If you have a copy of the one that you have sent them I would be grateful for a look

- lets hope that we both get it sorted x

[Mike_hawk]

Supert

 

There is additional info on this issue that expands on the subject further...... which unhelpfully I can't now find

 

Untried cases [ie; default judgments] cannot be enforced after the limitation period.

[dx100uk]

whatever you do

 

do NOT talk on the phone Put it DOWN

 

do not send any futher letters without checking here first.

 

END OF!!

 

dx

[PointyFacedCat]

Hi again all,

 

Thanks for posts.

Right - I have good news and bad news I think!! Good news first:

 

With regards to my partner I sent off the letter to Link, like I said in post 29. On Friday we got a letter back from Link saying that they acknowledge receipt of my complaint and say that it is being investigated, they gave me a complaint number and say that we should get a final response within 28 days.

 

They also enclose a copy of their complaint handling procedure which waffles on about how they care about providing a quality service to all their customers and take all complaints seriously, and goes on to say what they'll do to investigate complaint etc.

 

Then at the end it says that they will either accept and uphold the complaint and offer appropriate redress or reject the allegations made. They'll send a final response letter telling me of their decision within 28 days.

 

It also says that if you're still not happy with the decision in the final response they'll give details of what options are available including any government or trade body Link is covered by. And that's it basically.

 

I am really hoping that this is good news - and that the final response letter will be just to let me know that the matter is closed. What do you think? Does everyone see this as a good sign? .. usual cap.........they can do nowt to you...dx

 

Right - now onto the Bad stuff.

 

This is regarding my Student Loans.

I have finally had a response to the Statute Barred letter that I sent to Honours Student Loans.

(Got this on Friday, haven't had a chance to post until now).

 

However the letter is not from Honours,

the letter is from a firm of solicitors called Drydensfairfax.

 

However they say that their client is the Student Loans Company Limited (not Honours!?)

They say that the Student Loans Company previously obtained a judgement against me and that if I don't pay the full £5K in 7 days

then steps will be taken to enforce the judgement our client holds.

 

they enclose a notice of change of solicitor (to themselves - no idea who the last solicitor was).

It says the cheque should be made payable to Drydensfairfax.

 

I am scared and very confused.

How come it's now back to the Student Loans Company chasing me and not Honours Student Loans - I don't really get it.

 

It was originally the Student Loans Company that got the CCJ so I can't use any substitution arguments here. Just Limitations Act section 24.

 

But now I don't know who to write to quoting section 24 - the solicitors, the student loan company or Honours or all 3? Or should I just wait?

 

Also today I got a letter from Northampton County Court telling me that proceedings are being transferred to Bradford County Court.

This is not my local court so I don't understand why proceedings are being transferred there?

Does this mean that there will be a hearing?

 

I am seeing Citizens Advice on Thursday but I'd really , really appreciate any advice that anyone can give me and if anyone can answer any of the questions/queries asked above.

 

It seems that they are determined to take this back to court - or are they just trying really hard to scare me?

 

I only have 3p in the bank at present, there is no way I can pay the full amount. I'd even struggle to pay instalments unless they are very, very small. Just living is hard at the moment, let alone anything else.

 

Thank you ever so much.

 

PointyFacedCat xxx

 

Just re-read your post mike-hawk about default judgements not getting enforced after limitation period - mine was a default, this gives me hope. If you could find that, it'd be great!

Edited August 13, 2012 by PointyFacedCat

[PointyFacedCat]

To SuperTramper re

 

If you have a copy of the one that you have sent them I would be grateful for a look

- lets hope that we both get it sorted x

 

sorry haven't responded sooner, only checked today. Don't know if there's a way to attach letters so

 

will copy the letter I sent to Link below (with personal details removed):

 

My Address

 

Date

 

Links Address

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Loan Account Number: xxxxxxxxxx

Link Reference Number: xxxxxxxxxx

 

I do not acknowledge this debt.

 

You state in your letter of xxxxxxx 2012 that the Student Loans Company have secured a County Count

Judgement (CCJ) on this debt. You are not The Student Loans Company (SLC) and therefore cannot take

any enforcement action on this alleged County Court Judgement.

 

In order for you to be able to enforce this alleged County Court Judgement you would have had to go

to court to get the CCJ substituted to your name within 6 years of the date of the CCJ obtained by

The SLC. (Under Civil Procedure Rule 19.5 and Section 35 of the Limitations Act 1980).

 

Therefore I request from you:

 

• The date of the alleged County Court Judgement obtained by the Student Loans Company.

• A copy of the original CCJ obtained by the Student Loans Company.

• The date that you applied to be substituted as the party to claim on this CCJ.

• A copy of court documentation confirming the substitution of the party to claim from SLC to yourselves.

 

Assuming that you can actually provide any of the above I should also point out to you that on

'insert date here' I checked my Credit Report and The Register of Judgements, Orders and

Fines. Neither shows any County Court Judgement. This means that the alleged CCJ obtained must be

over 6 years old and has never been enforced. As such it is now un-enforceable. This is because...

 

Under Section 24 of the Limitations Act 1980:

 

• An action shall not be brought upon any judgement after the expiration of six years from the

date on which the judgement became enforceable.

• No arrears of interest in respect of any judgement debt shall be recovered after the

expiration of six years from the date on which the interest became due.

 

So, if you have been substituted as the claimant you would still need to apply to the court to

enforce this alleged CCJ.

 

Therefore I also request from you:

 

• A copy of court documentation which confirms that you have been back to court after the 6

year time period (since the CCJ was granted) has expired to request to enforce this debt, and

the courts confirmation that they have granted this.

 

Unless I receive all of the above information and court documents from you then I believe that you

are currently legally unable to take any enforcement action to recover the alleged amount claimed.

Therefore I will not be paying it.

 

If you are unable to provide me with the requested information and court documents then I request

your written confirmation that this matter is now closed and that no further contact will be made

concerning the above account after that last confirmation letter.

 

I would also like to state that if you cannot provide any of the above then your attempts to collect

this alleged debt and represent yourselves as having a CCJ that you are able to enforce is at best

highly unethical and at worst illegal! I shall be taking copies of the letters sent so far (on

'xx/xx/xx' and 'xx/xx/xx') and any further correspondence that you send other than correspondence

that I have specifically requested in this letter, (namely the date and court proof of original CCJ,

the date and court proof of substitution, the date and court proof of authority to enforce this

expired CCJ), and shall be forwarding these to the OFT and other relevant bodies as a complaint.

 

I would also suggest that you telephoning my parents on an ex-directory telephone number (on xxxxxx

2012) when you know that I no longer live there (as you have received correspondence from me at the

address at the top of this letter – not my parents address), is unethical and equates to harassment.

Furthermore you disclosed to my xxxxxxx(relative) that you wanted to speak to me regarding my Student

Loans. I suggest that this is a breach of the Data Protection Act 1998 and will also be adding this

to my complaint to the OFT and other relevant bodies such as the Information Commissioners Office.

Any further attempts to contact my parents by telephone will be recorded and added to the complaint.

 

I look forward to receiving your confirmation letter that this matter is now closed.

 

 

Yours Faithfully

 

Put Tamper Proof Signature in Here

 

Type Your Name here

 

-------------

 

Hope that helps SuperTramper.

 

Anyway, please can all you lovely people get back to me regarding the responses I've had.

 

Thank you ever so much.

 

PointyFacedCat xxx

[dx100uk]

you need to split these two debts off in 2 threads.

 

so you've got a court letter can you scan it up please.

 

 

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets - as a picture[jpg] file

don't forget you can use a mobile phone or a digital camera too!!

or

convert existing PC files to PDF [office has an installable print to PDF option]

.

'

BUT......

ENSURE: remove all pers info inc barcodes etc using paint program

but leave all figures and dates.

.

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites

it would be better to upload a multipage pdf if

you have many images too rather than many single pdfs

.

or if you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

or use word and save as pdf

.

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

.

.

dx

[PointyFacedCat]

Hi D,

 

Thanks for this.

 

I think if I leave this thread as being about my partners debt and being chased by Link, as even though I actually started it for me I've mainly ended up talking about his debt as Link were quicker to respond. Is there a way to change the name of the thread? So instead of it saying "Expired CCJ on very old debt now being chased by student loan company to pay" change it to "Expired CCJ on Student Loans now being chased by Link Financial to pay", or something similar?

 

And I'll start another thread about my student loans and will try to upload the relevant docs/letters as you've suggested above.

 

PFC x

[citizenB]

Have amended the thread title as requested

 

If not correct, just let us know.. it is easily sorted

[Mike_hawk]

Hi pfc

 

Send me a PM when you've got your thread up and running and I'll take a look and try to assist where its within my knowledge to do so

 

Not been able to find what I was looking for re: default judgments, I'll shout if I find the reference

 

When you start the new thread, could you confirm if the app has been issued under the original case number and whether any supporting docs or w/s were served?

 

Oh and, could you confirm if you have ever resided in or near Bradford

Edited August 14, 2012 by Mike_hawk

[PointyFacedCat]

Hi

 

I have now split these 2 debts up. My debt is now on the the following new thread:

 

Expired CCJ on Student Loan, Honours/SLC now threatening to take me back to court

 

(Mike_Hawk - I tried to PM you but haven't done enough posts to be able to do that, hopefully you'll see it anyway)

 

I'll leave this thread as being about my partners debts.

 

I've attached the response letter I got from link, saying it's being passed to the complaints department. See below.

 

As always any advice/comments are appreciated.

 

Otherwise I'll update once I get a response from Links complaints department.

Thanks PFC x

 

Third_letter_from_Link_07_08_12_page-1.pdf Page 1 Of latest letter from Link, saying they're passing my letter to complaints department

Third_letter_from_Link_07_08_12_page-2.pdf Page 2

[Spiderdog]

Hi

 

I'm in a very similar position. After deferring my loans and getting letters for 6 years saying I owed nothing, suddenly I got threatening letters! The letters I got for years said nothing about further deferments. What do yours say?

 

My case is also complicated by mental health problems. But this does not mean I am stupid. My case was put back to Drydens and a claim made. However, I decided to ask to see my personal information. After 4 requests they sent me a pile of printout which proves they have made a big mistake.

 

I suggest you write asking for your info under the Data Protection Act and send them £10. Then check the entire carefully.

 

Under the Consumer Credit Act Hounors Trustee Ltd, which I think is the holding company, must abide by the OFT guidance on debt collecting. This can be found at http://www.oft.gov.uk/OFTwork/publications/publication-categories/guidance/consumer_credit_act/oft664rev

 

There is a companion document about steps to take if debtor has mental health probs. Link is in the guidance.

 

I think I now have them on the run.

 

Please let me know if I can help further.

[dx100uk]

Hi

 

I'm in a very similar position. After deferring my loans and getting letters for 6 years saying I owed nothing, suddenly I got threatening letters! The letters I got for years said nothing about further deferments. What do yours say?

 

My case is also complicated by mental health problems. But this does not mean I am stupid. My case was put back to Drydens and a claim made. However, I decided to ask to see my personal information. After 4 requests they sent me a pile of printout which proves they have made a big mistake.

 

I suggest you write asking for your info under the Data Protection Act and send them £10. Then check the entire carefully.

 

Under the Consumer Credit Act Hounors Trustee Ltd, which I think is the holding company, must abide by the OFT guidance on debt collecting. This can be found at http://www.oft.gov.uk/OFTwork/publications/publication-categories/guidance/consumer_credit_act/oft664rev

 

There is a companion document about steps to take if debtor has mental health probs. Link is in the guidance.

 

I think I now have them on the run.

 

Please let me know if I can help further.

 

start a new thread

 

see below

 

dx

[PointyFacedCat]

Hi Spiderdog,

 

Thanks for your post. I'll look at that link.

 

Don't worry - I know that mental health problems don't equal stupid.

 

I'm afraid I don't know for sure what my old letters say - I don't have them.

 

I think that you can only backdate deferments for 3 months so once you go past that they don't bother mentioning deferment as an option any more (even if you aren't earning enough to pay and aren't mentally capable of deferring any more). (And from what I've read this still applies even if you did defer and they lost the paper work!!)

 

I'm gonna wait and see what response Link comes back with but if it's something I disagree with then I'll probably follow your advice.

 

Thank you

 

PFC xx

[supertramper]

Hey hun just wondering if you have had any more contact with Link about hubbys loan issues? I sent my letter off about three weeks ago and have not heard a dickie bird since x

[supertramper]

Have had a letter now though from the complaints department and they are still insisting that they have the right to chase the debt. Very worried now!!!

[dx100uk]

Because they haven't taken enforcement their right to do so has expired under the Llimitations Act.

[PointyFacedCat]

Hi all,

 

Am back!

Had a response from Link a few weeks ago but haven't been able to post until now.(Sorry).

 

It's really long and quite confusing and I'm sure that sometimes they're deliberately misunderstanding me.

 

They keep saying that we know you think this is statute barred when at no time in the last letter I sent to them did I say anything about statute barring,

it was all about the Limitations Act section 24 and being unable to enforce CCJs after 6 years and about them getting the CCJ substituted to their name.

 

There's a copy of that letter in post #38 and I'll put a link to it below as well so that you can refresh your memories.

 

They agreed that they broke the Data Protection Act(!) when speaking to my partners father and apologised for doing so.

Although they do downplay it and try to justify contacting him by saying that when you take out a student loan

you give SLC your parents number in case they can't get hold of you, so that's why they rang them.

 

However they didn't mention the fact that they had already got hold of my partner

and we were already corresponding with them by letter - so I don't think they should even of phoned them. that's all kind of irrelevant.

 

The main jist of things is that they think they're right and I'm wrong

and they're still going to chase for payment.

However, at the moment they have no plans to take any enforcement action (!),

 

the reason they give for this is that it would cost me money!!

 

They seem to be saying that they'll try to recover the money without using enforcement?!

 

Finally they say they'll be prepared to accept instalments instead of the full balance in one go

and I think they're saying they might accept less - it's a bit ambiguous - see what you think.

 

They quote a lot of legal stuff, which is often confusing and hard to understand.

 

I'm sure that some of their points actually support my argument,

which seems a bit weird,

you'll have to read it to see what I mean.

 

Some of their legal points seem to say that they can take certain types of enforcement action (particularly charging orders)

without getting the courts permission and this really worries me.

 

The only documents they provided were copies of the original loan agreements, none of the other documents I requested (like a copy of the original CCJ).

 

I'll put a link to their response below.

It's a bit long so I really appreciate anyone that reads through it all.

I will annotate this copy with comments/questions, as otherwise it'd take forever to explain.

 

It says that I have 8 weeks to reply (so about 4 weeks left now) and I'm really not sure where to go from here/what to say.

 

I'm sure that they must just be trying to scare us into paying

as if they could enforce then why wouldn't they?

 

I'm sending them a holding letter until I can write a proper response. (Will link to this below too).

 

I've made an appointment at CAB for my partner and myself as I'd like them to take a look before I respond.

 

Any advice from all you lovely knowledgeable people would be ever so much appreciated!

 

Also help on what I should say in my response letter to Link and advice on what I should actually do now would be gratefully received.

 

Thank you so much,

 

PFC x

 

Files I've uploaded:

My letter to Link - [ATTACH]38998[/ATTACH]

Links response - [ATTACH]38999[/ATTACH]

Holding letter I'm sending to Link until I can send a proper reply - [ATTACH]38997[/ATTACH]

Relevant Links

The Limitations Act 1980 - The relevant sections are Section 24 - Time Limits for Actions to Enforce Judgements (this is the most important and my whole case rests on this really), and Section 35 - New claims in pending actions: rules of court (This helps support my claim that they need to get the CCJ substituted into their name to take action on it.

Link to Civil Procedure Rule 19.5 - used to help back up my claim that they need to get the CCJ substituted to their name before they can take any enforcement action

 

 

PS. To SuperTramper - sorry for not responding sooner. I was very worried when I first got their response too. However, if they've said to you the same as they said to me then I think it'll be ok.

As D says they can't enforce so while they might still send letters etc asking for payment at least there shouldn't be any court action. I sincerely hope not any way! There are still some bits in the letter that worry me. At least all advice given to me should help you too.

Edited October 26, 2012 by PointyFacedCat