need help with bRought car

[spoonie85]

hi all

 

i bought a 2001 reg car off ebay for £650. he had listed some faults such as central locking not working with key fob, small tear in drivers seat, some scratches and chips.

 

i did an inspection when i collected it and all seemed fine.

 

4 days later i discovered a very bad fuel leak, the rear wiper doesnt work and the indicator, when turning left, sometimes doesnt work.

 

i contacted him saying that it was not as described and he basically wrote back saying that it was fine when he had it so it must have happened after he sold it to me.

 

i have contacted trading standards who have given me some advice, one of which was to get the car repaired ASAP as it is a major safety issue to leave a car parked on the road thats leaking fuel, as if it causes an explosion i could be liable for leaving it in an unsafe manner. then to chase him for the cost of the repairs.

 

my big thing is, although he is registered on ebay as a private seller, when he sold the car to me he told me he sells others there as well to make some money and he had other cars there ready to sell when i went to collect mine. i very much doubt he is a registered trader of any sort and is just doing this to make some extra money.

 

he has sold 4 cars on ebay since aug 2011 (5th aug 2011, 8th aug 2011, 14 feb 2012 and 15 apr 2012), i bought mine from him on the 8th july 2012 and he has listed 2 more cars on the same day recently (15th july 2012).

 

my point is he is obviously acting as a trader and not a genuine private seller as he is selling lots of cars, in a short space of time, for profit.

 

what should be my approach here, as i think its going to be a case of going to the small claims court. should i try to prove he's a trader and spout the SOGA to him or go down the route of 'you didnt describe it properly'??

 

a mechanic friend has looked at the car and says that everything else appears fine on the car and the repairs will probably cost around £250 at a garage.

 

i have printed out copies of the listing of the car i bought and the others he has sold in case any proof is needed.

 

any help and advice would be more than welcome

 

thank you

[heliosuk]

Don't waste peoples time is my advice. £650 for a car and it has some faults? Be a bit more realistic please. £900 in total seems reasonable for a years mileage. Move on. The faults are not that serious and could easliy be picked upwhen you bought the car. No doubt the SOGA brigade will be along but interestingly are very quiet on this one!!!!

 

Normally one would expect a barrage of links you can look at which tells you your rights, go get em etc which doesn't fully describe what you will go through!!!

[spoonie85]

Um thanks for the useless response.... i think.

 

it shouldnt matter how much you pay for a car, it still should work.

 

having taken it to a garage, the mechanic has told me that at some point someone has changed the high pressure fuel pump incorrectly and has cross threaded it - meaning it doesn't make a tight seal and thus leaking fuel. to repair it needs a new pump and fuel tank as both are irrepairable.

 

not a serious fault eh!!! that is not an age related fault either now is it !!??

 

yes for £650 you cant expect a pristine car.. and i didnt

yes for a Y reg car you have to expect a few minor issues... i did

but for any amount of money you dont expect it to have had a bodge job done on it and for it to be leaking fuel everywhere.

 

the mechanic said that at a stand still it doesnt leak (well it wouldnt as the car is using any fuel), which is why i wouldnt have noticed it when i bought it.

its only when you drive the car for a length of time that the leak is apparent. again why i didnt notice it after a test drive.

 

but back to the main point. he sold me a duff car that at sometime, either by himself or someone else, has had a serious bodge job done on it.

 

the cost for parts is £90 for a new fuel pump and £540 for a new fuel tank from peugeot.

 

so please try to be helpful if your going to respond or just dont bother

[sailor sam]

Your options are (as I see it) are to report the faults to the seller in writing and ask him to rectify at no expense to yourself. Tell him the findings in respect of the fuel leak. Give him 7 days to respond saying that if he dosn't, you will consider formally rejecting the car under the SOGA as being not fit for the purpose.

 

The downside is that you may have to take this to the small claims court which will incur you with an application fee (recoverable) and will most likely take time to get the desired result.

 

Send the letter and let is know if/when you get any response. In the meantime, try not to be tempted to enter into any verbal communication unless the seller wants to arrange to have the car repaired.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[oddjobbob]

Well spoonie I'm sorry that you din't like Helios ' response and it wasn't what you wanted to hear.

 

Although I agree that the car should work the fact of the matter is that for £650 you don't get much car for your money.

 

I fully appreciate that that may well have been all the money you had to spend on a car, but your best of course of action IMO is to try your very utmost to get the seller to give you some sort of contribution to the fuel tank repair.

 

The indicator occasionally n/w is just a bad connection / poor earth and part of driving an 11 yo motor car.

 

As is the rear wiper, which, BTW does not even need to work to pass the MOT.

 

If you really can't get any contribution from the seller then you do have the option of the SOGA etc., but at the sort of mnoey oyu've paid for the car there's nowhere really to go - you could go to court, get awarded £100 towards repair costs and then not get paid or paid at £5 a week by the seller and it's really not a realistic option.

 

But its your car, so its your call.

[spoonie85]

hi again

 

i do understand for a car of its age some minor issues will be there. i accept that completely. the indicator not working sometimes and the rear wiper are fine. i just think he should have listed it and told me. i could have had a crash on the way home if turning left, light didnt come on and someone hit the back of me. but i do accept that little things like can be wrong on a car such as this.

 

its mainly the fuel leak. if you are selling a car of any age it shouldn't have a serious fault like that on it. especially not with the reason of why it is like that. fair enough if the fuel line had perished. i would say that's fine. it will probably happen with a car this age eventually, but not down to a bodge job!

 

i have messaged him and his responses are short with the general context of 'it was fine when i had it so it must have only happened once you bought the car' and 'it was sold as seen with no guarantee'.

 

i have said to him that the high cost of a new tank is not viable on a car of this value, but the garage will fit a second hand one if i buy one. the same with the pump. having a very quick search around (for a rough idea of prices) i have found some. altogether its £94.87 inc postage for both tank and pump. the labour at the garage will be £84. so a total of £178.87 inc VAT

 

i have asked him to either pay for the repairs or give me a refund but he will not give me a straight yes or no answer. just that it was sold as seen.

 

i will await a proper yes or no. if no i will ask for a contribution towards the cost (as oddjobbob says - considering the age etc). if still a no then i will have to take it to the small claims court.

 

just a quick note however, the citizens advice consumer people have forwarded my case to trading standards as they are convinced this seller is acting as a trader and is not registered. will be interesting to see how that goes.

 

thanks for the replies, i will post here when i have anything new

[sailor sam]

Trading Standards should be interested in the 'sold as seen' bit. That suggests that he is attempting to reduce your statutory rights which is something a trader cannot legally do.

 

Please Note

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[heliosuk]

"my big thing is, although he is registered on ebay as a private seller, when he sold the car to me he told me he sells others there as well to make some money and he had other cars there ready to sell when i went to collect mine. i very much doubt he is a registered trader of any sort and is just doing this to make some extra money.

 

he has sold 4 cars on ebay since aug 2011 (5th aug 2011, 8th aug 2011, 14 feb 2012 and 15 apr 2012), i bought mine from him on the 8th july 2012 and he has listed 2 more cars on the same day recently (15th july 2012).

 

my point is he is obviously acting as a trader and not a genuine private seller as he is selling lots of cars, in a short space of time, for profit."

 

AND, how are you going to prove he is trading as this is far from sufficient to win a small claims court case.

 

Further, you say you inspected and drove the car. If the high pressure lift pump was leaking then the car would reek of fuel as it would be spraying all over the place and fuel smells are not easy to get rid of.

 

Sorry........don't buy any of this.

 

The big thing here is that if you want any recourse you are going to have to prove he is trading and his record on e bay is insufficient to prove as such in a court of law. In fact from memory based on what you have posted, he will not be deemed to have been trading.

 

Just amazes me how many people jump on the SOGA bandwagon now when the reality is...................if you don't know about cars then take someone who does!

[Bang!]

From the problems you list, I would be amazed if it would cost £250 to fix. The potentially worst one is the fuel leak - do you know what is causing it?

 

The indicator is most likely to be a bad connection at the bulb, although a slight chance of the relay.

 

The wiper is most likely a bad connection again, but rear wipers are massively easier to access than front one normally, and its £20/£30 from a breaker/swap the plug three bolts and a securing wiper nut, then a bit of mucking about with the wiper blade, and trim to get in and out.

 

The fuel leak has too many variables, from a crack in a fuel line, to a trashed injection pump with many other options between.

 

Its likely you could fix it in less time than you would spend in court.

[spoonie85]

it is the garage who told me what's causing the leak.

 

they dried the underneath and started the car and it starts dripping from the top of the tank. they said that no the fuel lines and such leak. so they started the car with someone looking at the pump, and as soon as the engine had been running for a while a puddle of diesel started to form where the pump sits in the tank. after taking the pump off they could see the heavily damaged thread on the tank.

 

the little things im not really bothered about as i can do them myself and as i said its more an annoyance he didn't list them rather than anything else. i DID expect some minor issues with the car considering its age etc.

 

and heliosuk, im not an expert in the small claims court or these things in general, hence why im here asking for advice. however, to prove he has been trading/selling cars surely eBays listings stating that the car sold on ?? date for ?? amount of money by him is enough to show he's sold that amount of cars?? he cannot deny that he has sold them. once i have shown this in court how can he then prove that he was selling them as a private individual?? no private individual sells 2 cars in 3 days in august, then 1 in feb, 1 in april then 3 more in 15 days in july. that is proof that he is selling cars to make a profit.

 

also in one of his latest listings he writes this "I have recently purchased this car off a friend". he's just said it himself. he has recently bought it - and now its on eBay to sold again! more proof that he is in fact buying and selling cars to make a profit.

 

if need be i will message the other buyers to see if they will write to me saying who sold them the cars - they can get that info from their V5.

 

obviously before/if it goes to court i need to do more and get more documented stuff, i do realise that. i don't see how these listings don't prove that he isnt acting as a private seller but as a trader

[heliosuk]

and heliosuk, im not an expert in the small claims court or these things in general, hence why im here asking for advice. however, to prove he has been trading/selling cars surely eBays listings stating that the car sold on ?? date for ?? amount of money by him is enough to show he's sold that amount of cars?? he cannot deny that he has sold them. once i have shown this in court how can he then prove that he was selling them as a private individual?? no private individual sells 2 cars in 3 days in august, then 1 in feb, 1 in april then 3 more in 15 days in july. that is proof that he is selling cars to make a profit.

 

also in one of his latest listings he writes this "I have recently purchased this car off a friend". he's just said it himself. he has recently bought it - and now its on eBay to sold again! more proof that he is in fact buying and selling cars to make a profit.

 

i don't see how these listings don't prove that he isnt acting as a private seller but as a trader

 

If you look at the dates properly you will notice they are different years for a start. I currently have 4 cars under my ownership and if I sold all at once does not make me a trader. They key will be how long he has owned and if his name or partners name appears on the log book.

 

In relation to the actual fault, it's a low pressure pump you are talking about as is a diesel. If it was the high pressure side you'd be talking a hell of a lot more. The repair to which you need is straight forward using "nut serts" which is a bit like a pop rivet only using a nut.

 

So again the diagnosis and repair method you have been told about is questionable. Firstly it's the HP pump which it is not, then it needs a new tank which is questionable and you think that by taking someone to court which will ultimately cost you more in time and money you will get the issue fixed........I don't think so.

 

I still cannot see that you didn't pick up on this, the car must have smelt disgusting which will ring alot of alarm bells with most.

[rebel11]

Hi spoon.

 

Here's some useful info:-

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/676408/oft1241.pdf

[spoonie85]

If you look at the dates properly you will notice they are different years for a start. I currently have 4 cars under my ownership and if I sold all at once does not make me a trader. They key will be how long he has owned and if his name or partners name appears on the log book.

 

yes they are in different years but are only spread over a period of 11 months. and he didnt list all his cars at once but has sold them at rather suspicious intervals. that and the fact in one of his listings he says he has only recently purchased this car from a friend clearly indicates he is buying and selling cars to make some money. he has freely admitted this is the case. "recently" is obviously subjective, it could be a day, a week or a month but the fact he admits he recently bought it and is now selling it coupled with his other cars indicates he is acting as a trader.

 

is there a way i can find out the ownership details of the other cars he sold? i have their reg plates from the pics on his eBay listings.

 

as for the repair i asked the garage if there another way to attach the pump and he did admit that there was. he could bodge it. he didn't mention 'nut serts' but said that they would not repair the car in that way as it is not a recommended way to do it as if something went wrong they could be found liable. do you think it would be wise to get a second quote from another garage then?

 

thank you for the link rebel11. there's lots of useful info there.