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Afraid not in France.....they just don't do the same things as available in UK.

 

I knew there was a reason i didn't like them.

Still i think it unlikely that a judge would agree a repossession order in the circumstances you describe.


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several threads merged for full history

 

 

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Still i think it unlikely that a judge would agree a repossession order in the circumstances you describe.

 

The above is untrue. Where a mortgage term is expired, a judge has no jurisdiction to stay a possession claim - s/he will be obliged to grant possession.

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I know this is true on a tenancy but on a mortgage where arrears exist a the end of term. Do you have any authority for this please.


DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

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Looking further...The Financial Conduct Authority Finalised Guidance 29 August 2013 states in Principle 6:

Considerations regarding mortgage

contracts

6.1 In general, where a mortgage has reached maturity without the capital being repaid,

the Terms and Conditions (T&Cs) of the mortgage will continue until the loan is repaid.

That means the borrower will still be a customer of the firm and must be treated fairly

under Principle 6. Most contracts are likely to require monthly payments to be made

until the loan is repaid.

6.2 Mortgage contract parties may agree a strategy for repayment of the debt and that may

lead to an agreed change in the original terms and conditions. When firms implement

facilities at maturity, such as a term extension, this may restrict a firm’s right to

foreclose unless a further breach of contract occurs. Where there is a change in the

terms and conditions at maturity, we expect the new arrangements to be documented

appropriately.

6.3 A failure by the party not in breach to act at maturity, could, in some circumstances,

limit the way that party is able to behave thereafter.

 

Surely 6.1 means that they cannot force a repossession and must wait until the mortgage IS repaid (with continuing monthly payments)?

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Yes it is true that under an agrement the term usually continues until all sums due under it are repaid, unless threr is court proceedings and a judgment then the sum become the judgment sum.


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....but should they not abide by the FCA guidelines and NOT SEEK a possession order?

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Looking further...The Financial Conduct Authority Finalised Guidance 29 August 2013 states in Principle 6:

Considerations regarding mortgage

contracts

6.1 In general, where a mortgage has reached maturity without the capital being repaid,

the Terms and Conditions (T&Cs) of the mortgage will continue until the loan is repaid.

That means the borrower will still be a customer of the firm and must be treated fairly

under Principle 6. Most contracts are likely to require monthly payments to be made

until the loan is repaid.

6.2 Mortgage contract parties may agree a strategy for repayment of the debt and that may

lead to an agreed change in the original terms and conditions. When firms implement

facilities at maturity, such as a term extension, this may restrict a firm’s right to

foreclose unless a further breach of contract occurs. Where there is a change in the

terms and conditions at maturity, we expect the new arrangements to be documented

appropriately.

6.3 A failure by the party not in breach to act at maturity, could, in some circumstances,

limit the way that party is able to behave thereafter.

 

Surely 6.1 means that they cannot force a repossession and must wait until the mortgage IS repaid (with continuing monthly payments)?

 

....but should they not abide by the FCA guidelines and NOT SEEK a possession order?

 

Wishful thinking.

They must treat you fairly, but nothing says they can't seek possession.

A mortgage is just a loan, secured in the property.

 

If you don't repay the loan when due, they can take the security (a possession order for the property).

Otherwise people would never have to repay the capital of an endowment mortgage.

 

6.2 says "when" a firm extends the term, not "they must extend the term"

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mmmm...I dont think they ARE treating me fairly........sounds like a case for the OMBUDSMAN.......presumably whilst that it going on they cannot take further action......?

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mmmm...I dont think they ARE treating me fairly........sounds like a case for the OMBUDSMAN.......presumably whilst that it going on they cannot take further action......?

 

What grounds will you state to establish that they have treated you unfairly? (That they won't be able to defeat by saying "well, we have given him from the first half of 2012 to find another resolution....")

 

Like selling the French property in the intervening 3+ (almost 4?) years .....

 

Sounds pretty fair to me!

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yes - property market is very depressed there......three agents agree reasonable price.

They have made NO effort to offer alternatives, eg extending the time period...converting to repayment etc.

I ask again...presumably whilst Ombudsman appeal is going on they cannot take further action......?

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yes - property market is very depressed there......three agents agree reasonable price.

They have made NO effort to offer alternatives, eg extending the time period...converting to repayment etc.

I ask again...presumably whilst Ombudsman appeal is going on they cannot take further action......?

 

How can they extend the period if YOU don't have a mortgage with them? The mortgage became repayable on death of your spouse and they have waited years so far.

Again, how could they "convert it to repayment" :

a) you don't have a mortgage with them (still), and if it had been converted to a repayment mortgage with the whole repaid over the 4 years 2012-2016 : if you could have managed that you'd likely be able to take out a medium term loan for the (relatively small) sum that would be remaining of a few months term of a repayment mortgage.

 

What offer(s) / arrangement did you propose that:

A) was realistic,

B) they declined, and

C) wouldn't have had them being criticised for agreeing something unsuitable, if you don't meet their lending criteria??

 

Are you claiming they should have agreed an alternative (that you now would be saying "they never should have agreed that", as I am still unable to pay it off)!

 

I don't know if they can take action while you are appealing to the Ombudsman. From their point of view they have given you 3 and close to 4 years grace already.

If your house in France hasn't sold in 3+ years : what makes you think it could be sold before the mortgage would have been due (in 2016 if your spouse had not died)?

 

Just how long are you proposing they should have to wait for it not to be "unfair"? : they have waited 3-4 years so far ......

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Well of curse.

..if they had transferred the loan to my name...

.instead of claiming it would be 'new lending' so I could change the name at the Land Registry

MAYBE I could have got a loan elsewhere.

 

 

They would not entertain as I did not 'own' the property in J P Morgan's eyes.

 

My legal opinion confirm that:

 

1 As the mortgage was taken out to live together, it was relied upon to be a place to live – the family home.

 

2 That Mr P has an equitable interest in the property, notwithstanding that his name is not on the mortgage or deeds, especially since ALL payments have been made from Mr. P’s personal bank account. 3 There is constructive/implied trust in accordance with LPA s53c.

 

4 The comment from J P Morgan that it was classed as ‘new lending’ was patently not true, and was merely procedural.

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Well of curse...if they had transferred the loan to my name....instead of claiming it would be 'new lending' so I could change the name at the Land Registry MAYBE I could have got a loan elsewhere. They would not entertain as I did not 'own' the property in J P Morgan's eyes.

My legal opinion confirm that:

 

1 As the mortgage was taken out to live together, it was relied upon to be a place to live – the family home.

 

2 That Mr P has an equitable interest in the property, notwithstanding that his name is not on the mortgage or deeds, especially since ALL payments have been made from Mr. P’s personal bank account. 3 There is constructive/implied trust in accordance with LPA s53c.

 

4 The comment from J P Morgan that it was classed as ‘new lending’ was patently not true, and was merely procedural.

 

You do indeed have an equitable interest in the property.

If you are/were the Executor of the estate you will have held the legal title too.

If you are / were the beneficiary, you will have inherited the equitable interest.

 

If they reposses : they get the legal title but that doesn't extinguish the equitable interest.

 

What that means is that if/when they reposses it, if there is a surplus when the property is sold and the mortgage paid off : you will receive any surplus.

 

Nothing you have said will prevent them realising their security : otherwise there would never be a repossession of any property if all it takes to stop them is an occupier or other saying "I have an equitable interest in the property".

 

BTW, Where did (3) go?

 

Returning to previous :

Why is it unfair for them to reposses after giving you 3+ years grace?

If they go to court, show that the mortgage is due (due to the death of your spouse) and you haven't settled the mortgage : they will be granted possession. What unfairness are you claiming?

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Look...I am sounding /goading/exhausting opinions here........I would really to know the legal situation....eg If I appeal to the Ombudsman does that delay matters until I can find an alternative solution. Not sure what happened to 3....or why it spaced as it did...

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My condolences on your bereavement.

Do you know what the "other sources" are that were designed to clear the mortgage in 2016? It would seem very strange that there was no insurance policy taken out at the start of the

mortgage from the B/Soc's point of view if not your wife's.

 

I can't see the answer to life insurance question.

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There was never any life insurance requested/attached to the original mortgage with Platform (who sold it to J P Morgan)

I would add re unfairness....J P Morgan have steadfastly refused to put the loan (as beneficiary) into my name, without which the Land registry would also not put in my name...so it remains as Executor of.....

Because of this, without exception, it has been impossible to remortgage.

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There was never any life insurance requested/attached to the original mortgage with Platform (who sold it to J P Morgan)

I would add re unfairness....J P Morgan have steadfastly refused to put the loan (as beneficiary) into my name, without which the Land registry would also not put in my name...so it remains as Executor of.....

Because of this, without exception, it has been impossible to remortgage.

 

They don't have to have the mortgage in your name.

Many houses get sold while under a mortgage : the mortgagor has a charge over the property registered, and the seller's solicitor gives an undertaking to discharge the mortgage from the proceeds of sale.

The new mortgagor gives the new mortgage to the buyer before the buyer actually has the property : the buyer's solicitor gives the lender an undertaking to only use the mortgage funds for the agreed purchase.

This also includes where (after a death) the house is sold and mortgage paid off on instructions of the executor.

 

So, if you could get a mortgage with another lender (as 'buyer'), you could use it to repay the current mortgage.

 

So, is this really the reason? Is it more not due to the fact you are retired and

I am afraid I am unlikely to meet the criteria for obtaining a mortgage elsewhere...I am now retired and don't have a great credit profile.

 

I'm not trying to be unhelpful not: just pointing out "how it is" whereas you seem to be claiming it instead "to be how you would like it"

 

Are you still making the payments?

 

If the OP hadn't: they likely would have sought possession much sooner.

However, since the mortgage is due for redemption on death of the spouse : why does the OP's current payment status matter?

 

Even IF the OP forestalls possession currently : the original mortgage term finished in 2016 : they need to sell the French property.

They've had since at least July 2012 to do so : if it hasn't happened in 3 years 7 months +, how does the OP expect to do so within 10 months (at most!)

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Hi gprit,

 

This may be helpful to follow their advice, i'm just editing

 

It does seem you will need to get a solicitor involved who can look at an occupancy order especially as you have beneficial interest in the property. Whilst you are still paying for the mortgage you are in a good position to look at various options which an IFA can help with.

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It does seem you will need to get a solicitor involved who can look at an occupancy order especially as you have beneficial interest in the property. Whilst you are still paying for the mortgage you are in a good position to look at various options which an IFA can help with.

 

If the mortgage company has a possession order hearing : on the facts stated it will be granted. Occupancy orders tend to be used in Family Law Act actions, and won't forestall a valid claim for repossession.

 

Look...I am sounding /goading/exhausting opinions here........I would really to know the legal situation....eg If I appeal to the Ombudsman does that delay matters until I can find an alternative solution. Not sure what happened to 3....or why it spaced as it did...

 

http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/protocol/prot_mha

 

Pre-Action Protocol for Possession Claims based on Mortgage or Home Purchase Plan Arrears in Respect of Residential Property

Complaints to the Financial Services Ombudsman

8.1 The lender must consider whether to postpone the start of a possession claim where the borrower has made a genuine complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service (‘FOS’) about the potential possession claim.

8.2 Where a lender does not intend to await the decision of the FOS, it must give notice to the borrower, with reasons, that it intends to start a possession claim.

So it appears the lender can continue a possession claim even if there has been an FOS complaint, especially if they feel it isn't a genuine complaint.

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Thanks all...as I said I am gathering opinions/soundings....and yes payments are still being made.

 

ok, having sounded opinions etc I can pay JP Morgan £50,000 cash now (which depletes almost all my savings). If a request is made to extend for say 6 months to repay the remaining £18,000 would that be deemed unfair to request that of the lender, or, seeing they have ignored every principle of the FCA Guidelines, would they still be likely to apply and be granted repossession after 18 March?

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