Second hand Car issues - owned 10 days HELP PLEASEEEE

[ANTS2009]

Hi All

 

I'll try to keep it brief

 

Day 1 - I purchased a 2002 car for £1500 from a dealer, 1 year new MOT, 5 mths tax. I viewed the car, but didnt test drive (i know!) and all seemed fine. Purchased it, was given a little paper work that i never looked at and one key and started my journey home. I noticed on the way that there were 2 warning lights on the dash. When arriving home i searched online and these were ABS/ESP faults (im kinda dumb when it comes to cars) and also noticed that the key given to me was manual, and the alarm wouldnt work as it needed the remote fob. I also looked through the paperwork given and noticed advisories on the MOT for 2 x tryes near legal limit and exhaust deteriated.

Now i know based on the above, i should have been a more savy consumer, however the car was advertised online as excellent condition with alarm and there were no mention of advisories or any faults in the ad or in person by the dealer at time of purchase.

 

Day 2 - i then tried calling the dealer the next day (3 calls in total) but he was never avail to take my call, i explained in brief the situation to the person who answered the phone, and was assured the message about faults would be passed on.

 

Day 3 - The next day being a Saturday, i decided to get a quote for the advisories, and was told that tyres need replacing urgently, and exhaust its completely rusted, so in the interest of safety and roadworthiness decided to pay for repairs. I had every intention of keepping the car.

 

Day 5 - Come Mon, i tried phoning the dealer again, and again too busy or not avail, so emailed them advising the faults up to that point, and although i have replaced 2 tyres/exhaust, i was ok with this as i would get the future benefit, but wanted the other times sorted by them. No reply to email.

 

Day 7 - Looked on the VOSA website, and found out that the car previously failed an MOT a few weeks earlier for ABS fault, rear coil spring incomplete, and a few other things. At this point i was concerned as the fault was present at time of purchase!

 

Day 8 - After 3 more calls to the dealer, finally spoke to the person who sold the car to me, went over the faults we decided that i would call back the next morning to arrange a time to come in to check it out.

 

Day 9 - called again 2 times, guy was not avail, messages passed on. By this stage i'm fed up.

 

Day 10 - today, decide to pay for a diagnostic, which highlighted £500 in repairs (clutch, brakes, lumdar ) and that one ABS sensor was completely missing, which baffled the mechanic, as this obviously meant it was missing since i purchased, so car was clearly not fit for purpose. Armed with this, called dealer again, and you guessed it, not avail.

 

So, dumb as i am, and as the quote to replace ABS sensor was less than £100 i decided to fix, in the hope that would be the end of it and i could start enjoying the car. Part replaced by mechanic, however after diagnostic, ABS/ESP fault still present, and would require alot more investigation, could be ECU which costs anything from £400 - £900!. I asked the mechanic to check the rear coil spring (fail from previous MOT), and you guessed it "incomplete"

 

The car failed an MOT on 2 points, then passed a week later, but clearly both faults are still there.

 

I now want to reject the car because it needs £400 more work doing along with the unknown cost to fix ABS/ESP. the car was clearly not fit for purpose, but as i've paid £600 in repairs already on this, can i claim the cost of the car and repairs to date? I did do the advisories in good faith (this makes up £500) to ensure the car was safe to drive, but i never dreamed of the problems to come. I know i can ask the dealer to repair somethings, but i have lost faith in this car and him, and just want all my money back and move on.

 

Where do i stand? (sorry about the length of this)

Edited July 15, 2012 by ANTS2009

[sailor sam]

Few questions; make/model/mileage of car. Was the MOT carried out by the same garage which failed it a week earlier?

[ANTS2009]

thanks for your reply, Peugeot 307, 95k and yes the same garage (different from the one i puchased from though)

[sailor sam]

So you are saying that the same garage failed it and then passed it a week later with the same fails... interesting. Perhaps you should bring this to VOSA's attention. It sounds to me that the ABS sensor has been removed in an attempt to disguise a more complicated fault. I take it you can provide a print out of the email you sent.

 

As far as the seller is concerned, you should now write to him including a copy of the diagnostic report and state that as he has failed to respond actively to your calls/email, you have now had the car inspected and find tat the car is not fit for the purpose. Accordingly as it has become apparent it is beyond economical repair, you are formally rejecting the car under the SOGA and would like to arrange collection of the car and the refund of the purchase price plus a significant contribution (if not all) towards the repairs which you have had carried out.

 

Should he choose to ignore or refuse to accept your request within 7 days of your letter, you will consider taking legal action which will include adding court fees plus interest onto your claim of a full refund plus all your consequential losses.

 

Send by recorded delivery.

[ANTS2009]

Yes, thats correct. The mechanic (High street chain) suggested i advise VOSA also. I have typed a letter already rejecting the car, and just wanted to see if could include repairs made to date. As you can probably tell i made every effort to fix the problem and communicate with the dealer to i guess "not create any drama" and find a ammicable solution , but clearly this hasnt worked for me. Big lessons learnt.

 

a few more questions, my reject letter is as long and detailed as my post with more specifics (dates/times of calls made etc). Is this ok? Not over the top? Yes i have all receipts for works done, and quotes with comments made by the mechanic

 

I paid by Barcalycard, should i let them know the purchase was not fit for purpose? Should i cancel my insurance or keep it going until the outcome is known?

[oddjobbob]

I don't think you can claim for any advisories.... advisories are NOT MOT failures, merely items which may need attention at some point. You bought a 2nd car and in fairness al the parts on it will be 2nd hand too and worn in some way.

 

However the ABS is a different matter: he knew, of course he ****** knew. What a d**k***d of a dealer!

 

I think you should try to get the amount paid by credit card charged back, or failing this get the dealer to repair the ABS properly.

[ANTS2009]

thanks for you reply. My only concern was that if the MOT passed when clearly is shouldn't have, were advisories actual advisories? (no one will know i guess)

 

I completely agree on fair wear and tear, you buy a second and car and have to accept repairs at frequent intervals. I accepted this, and in my case i acted in good faith (and £££) to try and put things right, this was of course before investigating the MOT faults , had i been armed with this info sooner, clearly i wouldn't have spent a penny on this.

[Bang!]

I got to know some of the ones at VOSA quite well as my ex wife kept writing off cars which I would repair for her and they had to test them.

 

They are always interested when suspicious MOTs have been issued, but in the past rarely did much about it. Having the VT30 (if its still so called) listing the errors and their still being present seems far more interesting I suspect for them.

[ANTS2009]

just a follow on, i guess if the repair today have solved the ABS/ESP problem, i would simply have asked the Dealer to pay for these costs (incl diagnostics) and the incomplete coil spring and as a goodwill gesture, perhaps a service. (for all the sleepless nights, and time spent on this issue)

 

the other items mentioned in the service report, i would have dealt with over time as they were only identified because i went in for the diagnostic because of my original complaint about the ABS.

 

I was 50/50 over whether to reject, or ask for repair - but to behonest based on the 4 min conversation i did manage to have with the dealer (and i quote "but the car is still safe to drive", yes but thats not the point, and it will fail the next MOT, "yes but thats not for another year"!) he will try to mitigate his losses whilst increasing mine. He did mention in our brief conversation that when bringing it in, he would contribute to the repair. Obviously this is only based on one conversation because he never takes my calls! Something to be said about, not the actual complaint............ but how its handled.

Edited July 14, 2012 by ANTS2009

[ANTS2009]

i only have the actual pass MOT done recently. There were no other records given to me. I used this info to access VOSA info online that gave me the history of previous MOT's

[Conniff]

You should do as Oddjob says and do a chargeback on your credit card You will then be in a better position to negotiate a rebate.

[ANTS2009]

Hi again, i want to cancel my insurance (full year paid in advance) within the 14 days cooling off period to reduce the costs of cancellation. Does the car need to be insured if i'm rejecting it? I will no longer be driving it and it's parked behind my house on a quiet residential street. Do I notify the dealer in my reject letter that car is no longer insured?

 

I don't have the updated V5 yet. How do I go about getting it changed out of my name once it finally does arrive which could be another 2 weeks away?

 

The first reject letter, should this be as detailed as per my first post or a brief/to the point letter? I would prefer he only contact me in writing, do i mention this in my letter? I only have the guys first name that apparently is the boss, is that all i put on the letter (i did do a company search and found the directors name that is not the same as the person i dealt with)

 

I have decided to go for the purchase price of £1500 and 50% compensation for works completed to date £300 (fair i think under the circumstances) total refund requesting £1800

 

I spoke to BC today, and they are sending the forms out tomorrow and explained the process.

Edited July 15, 2012 by ANTS2009

[oddjobbob]

I dont think yuo'll get back more than yuo paid for it, despite carrynig out repairs.

[Conniff]

If the rejection is accepted, not likely especially at first try, any payment over and above the buying price would be a goodwill gesture, there isn't any good will in the car trade, they have a worse name, (especially for belligerence), than any other trade.

[ANTS2009]

thanks both, ill give a try anyway and then move on with my life.

 

any reply regarding the question on insurance?

[Conniff]

As there is now 'continuous' insurance, you will either have to SORN the car or keep the insurance going. If it is SORN declared, it will have to come off public land onto private land so where it is parked now could get it towed away if it's spotted.

[ANTS2009]

thanks for the advice, will keep it insured during this process.

[Conniff]

If the loss of a sensor doesn't disable the ABS, that means that the one wheel where the sensor is missing will/can lock up on hard application and the others wont so it could throw the car violently to the side where the sensor is missing. I would class that as 'dangerous', it could throw you either into the hedge or into the path of on oncoming vehicle.

 

You can't have half an ABS system, it's all or nothing.

[ANTS2009]

Update

 

Decided to call Dealer one more time on Monday, said to bring car back for full refund.

 

Returned car today (Wed) and got full refund. Total cash lost is £600 but the car needed prob another £1k work to make it satisfactory, so good result i think.

 

Thanks for all the advice.

 

PS- this has totally put me off buying another car, back to the tube i go.....

[Conniff]

That's probably the best way to have gone, you could have tried to get some of your money back but it would have been a long hard trip.

 

When you see a car you like, have a quick look around and if still interested, have a good read through any paperwork that comes with it and check the MoT before asking for a test drive.