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Arrow - Debt Managers LTD - Shop Direct - Advice needed


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Hi,

 

New to the site, looking for some advice to hopefully put my mind at rest.

 

Sorry if it seems like i'm rambling!

 

Bit of background info first.

 

Years ago, way more than 6,

my parnert had a catalogue that she was paying off.

I'm not sure of specifics, but it ran into a debt.

This was all sorted at the time of the debt by the catalogue themselves, and the account closed off.

 

Fast forward to last year,

and she started to receive threatening debt collection letters from a company call McKenzie Hall.

Not know who they were, or still thinking she had any debt, she ignored them, as she was fully aware of spoofings.

 

She received more letters at random times from the same company.

The interesting part is that the amounts were all different,

some more, some less then the previous letter.

 

She started to get a little distressed,

so I started to look around the internet forums.

 

We also looked at ther Experian report.

 

There was nothing on there that was outstanding,

 

It had all her credits (sofas, cooker etc) all paid in full.

Her rating was just above average.

 

I found lots of other people with similar circumstances, so sent the following email on her behalf:

 

Sent 09/06/2011

Referenece: xxxxxxxxx

Client reference: xxxxxxxx

Principal Sum: £1409.47

 

Please give details of where this sum of money awaiting to be paid has come from, with a detailed break down if possible please.

 

I beleive I have paid off all my creditors years ago, the last time I had credit was at least 10 years. I seem to recall the last one was 15 years ago.

 

I do not appreciate the threatening letters and phone calls, without any form of proof of non-payment.

 

Kind Regards

 

Nxxxx

 

We received nothing for 3 months, so considered the issue closed. Out of the blue, another letter asking for collection of the debt. I sent the following email:

 

Sent 14/09/2011

Further to your letter dated 5th May 2011, which was not received until 6th-13th September, which is infact before my below respondance, having not had any acknowledgement from yourselves in a period of 124 days, I considered the issue closed.

 

As before mentioned, I have not had any credit for the past 10 years, and any I had have in the past 15 years, has been Paid In Full.

 

I do not appreciate this kind of threatening behaviour, especially as I have nothing to owe.

 

Limitations Act 1980 I beleive comes into force after 6 years, and as I have had nothing for at least 10 years, I have nothing to owe.

 

I would like a response stating the issue closed within 14 days, as per my consumer rights. If i receive nothing, i will consider this issue closed.

 

Kind Regards

 

Nxxx

 

This time we received a letter almost immediately, again, threatening bailiffs etc. I checked on the Money Saving Expert forum, and found the template letters. I used one of these and sent the following:

 

Sent: 19/09/11

Reference your letter dated 16/09/2011

I have no record of this debt and you have not provided any proof regarding this matter or who the original creditors are.

 

Please provide me with a copy of the original statement of the account showing

 

exactly how the amount claimed has been calculated within 28 days of receipt of

this letter.

If I do not receive such a statement within the specified time and you continue to

contact me about this debt, I will make a formal complaint and will ask you to

investigate this through your complaints procedure, requesting a reply within 28

days.

I will then contact the Financial Ombudsman Service for advice if I am still

not satisfied.

The conditions for Statute Barred have been met:

No Creditor has taken court action against me

No Credit or debt payments in the last 6 years (at least 10 years to be exact)

Have no written communication to creditors in the last 6 years acknowledging I have debt.

Yours faithfully

Nxxxx

 

We had not received anything since, so considered the issue closed.

 

Now today, she has received a letter from Debt Managers LTD / Arrow. This for the same amount as mentioned above.

 

As she has seen her report etc, she just wants to ignore this.

 

I suppose i'm the worrier, should we leave ignore this, as we cannot get anyone to provide proof that his debt is actually hers?

 

I have been with her for 6 years, a

nd she hasnt had any catalogue or made any payments in this time.

As far as i am aware, anything debt that has not had any payment or acknowledgement of the debt within 6 years,

is Statute Barred and cannot be claimed?

The catalogue is from at least 10 years ago, and was settled with the catalogue itself.

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

regards

 

Rich

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personally i wouldn't even send them letters or even open their mail. if your sure you have had no credit for 10 years then you are completely safe.

 

you could send a statute barred letter and this would shut them up for good. i hear that a creditor can try to enforce a debt even if it is statute barred until they're informed otherwise.

 

if this debt wasn't time barred when you sent the letter you may aswell pay it.

 

saying that if you had any debt especally a default on a catolouge then it would be on your credit report. defo

 

ide ignore them.

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Hi Both,

 

Thank you very much for your replies.

 

I decided to ignore the letter. Today, my partner has received another letter from Debt Managers LTD, again asking for payment, threatening a doorstep visit.

 

The strange thing is, the letter formats are slightly, but noticeably different. The 2nd we received today, doesnt even have a signature! Oh, and they must use cheap printer toner as it scratches off with my finger nail!

 

I've emailed them the following letter: (I dont see why i should waste my money on them)

 

Debt Managers Ltd

PO Box 168

19 Herlot Row

Edinburgh

EH3 6JR

 

 

18th July 2012

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Ref No: xxxxxxxx

 

You have contacted me regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself.

I would point out that I have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to Arrow - Shop Direct. I Do not acknowledge this debt.

 

I am familiar with the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance which states that it unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.

 

I would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable.

 

In not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods.

 

Furthermore ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical/psychological harassment.

 

I would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my liability for the debt in question.

 

I await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed.

 

Otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to the trading standards department and consider informing the OFT of your actions.

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

Nxxxxx

 

It does not acknowledge the debt, and asks them to provide proof, if they have any, otherwise to close this matter.

 

Would you guys agree? Hopefully that is the end of it.

 

I'll keep you guys updated.

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Hi guys,

 

The saga continues!

 

My partner has received the following email in response to the 1 I posted above:

Dear Miss ./

*

Thank you for your email, the content of which has been noted on our records. To help us further our investigations can you please confirm when you left the .........address so we may be of further assistance.

*

Kind regards

Collections Support Department

 

 

 

She has never lived at .........., but her sister currently does, also has a name beginning with N, like my partner. I've spoken to my partner, and for some reason, they had the pay slips for the original debts go to this address. Again I repeat, this was confirmed as paid by the catalogue themselves. I almost get the feeling the original debt is her sisters in the first place!

 

 

What would you guess suggest we do from here? Answer the question in that she has never lived there? Or leave it and let them continue to investigate and prove who the debt belongs to as per my original request?

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Hi Guys,

 

My partner has received another letter from Debt Managers Ltd today.

 

This time they seem to have changed their tune slightly. This time the letter says 'Saving Opportunity', going on to say they have negotiated discount terms etc, call now for a possible discount etc.

 

Would this not be classed as chasing the debt still? They have acknowledge receipt of my prove it letter, saying i'm disputing this debt is my partners.

 

Are they not allowed to chase the debt while it is in dispute?

 

Any help with how to deal with them with this new development would be appreciate

 

Thanks

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi guys,

 

I've not heard anything back from anyone on the site and really need some help with this.

 

Today, my partner received a Doorstep Agent Visit notice from Debt Managers Ltd, despite the fact we are despairing the debt is actually ours. I sent an email asking to pove te debt is ours, which was received (see above).

 

As above they asked about an address that we haven't lived at. We didn't reply, as they have to prove its our debt.

 

My understanding is that they cannot continue to chase a debt if there is a dispute?

 

This is really starting to stress my pregnant partner and myself out now, so please help!

 

Thanks

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i have same with DML -

 

you should NOT tell them any information that they request

 

They are not allowed to knock your door - there is a letter in the library to send to stop them visiting you.

 

Did you place the account in dispute in writing?

If i help feel free to click star on my post. cheers

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Hi Gust,

 

Thanks for getting back to me.

 

Had a look in the library - is this the correct one? LETTER-USED-WHEN-A-DCA-THREATENS-A-DOORSTEP-VISIT

 

I sent the email above in blue disputing the debt to the email address on the letters, and had this response:

Dear Miss xxxx

 

Thank you for you email, the content of which has been noted on our records. To help us further our investigations, can you please confirm when you left the xxxxxxxxxxxx address so we may be of further assistance.

 

I did not respond to them, as they should be doing all the leg work to prove the debt.

 

As far as I am concerned, I have disputed the debt, and they have acknowledged this dispute. I guess i'm building up a good case against them?

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to add - any "discount" offered by a DCA usually means its a "bad debt" in which they cant prove and are baiting you for at least a small amount of payment.

If i help feel free to click star on my post. cheers

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thanks for clearing that up, i'll edit it accordingly and email them the letter.

 

in regards to the 'discount' - thats what I thought. We checked both our credit reports last year maybe 2 years ago, just for curiosity, and none of use had anything on there to worry about, with just above average credit score. I think they just want some form of payment, firstly to reset any SB clock of any debt, then they'll come chasing later for more payment.

 

Thanks for your help so far

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Just found this, so i'm also thinking of asking them to provide a valid Consumer Credit License, should scare them a little:

 

The Consumer Credit Act 1974 (the Act) requires debt collectors, businesses that offer goods or services on credit and/or are involved in activities relating to credit or hire to be licensed by the OFT. Following implementation of the OFT's new powers under the Consumer Credit Act 2006 on 6 April 2008, the companies could also have specific 'requirements' imposed on them by the OFT. If such a requirement was not complied with, the business concerned could be subject to a financial penalty of up to £50,000. The OFT can also refuse or revoke a licence if it decides that a trader is not fit to hold one. The OFT can take into account any circumstances which appear to be relevant when considering the fitness of an applicant or licensee, including evidence that the company has contravened the Data Protection Act 1988.

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i have ignored 2 different DCA's who have tried the "can you tell us where you lived" gag...

 

 

i have ignored one since early 2011 and heard nothing back and the other one.... heard nothing since jan 2009

If i help feel free to click star on my post. cheers

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DML seem to like passing off to call serve limited. so you might hear off them. i have ignored them since 2007 as im pretty sure the alleged debt was from 2001

 

maybe i should stat B that one now....

If i help feel free to click star on my post. cheers

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Hi Both,

 

I'm going to send the following letter, adjusted the template slightly to suit:

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

Account Ref No: xxxxxxx

 

For the record I have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to Arrow - Shop Direct. I Do not acknowledge this debt.

Please be advised that I will only communicate with you in writing. I have noted your repeated attempts to contact me over the past few weeks/months and these have been duly logged by time and date.

I direct you to my previous letter dated 18th July 2012 disputing this debt. You acknowledge receipt of this letter. It pointed out that under OFT guidance it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. I requested that you provide proof of this debt, of which I have received nothing. Furthermore ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical/psychological harassment.

 

Since placing this account in dispute, I have received another letter from yourselves stating you have intention to arrange a doorstep agent visit. should it be your intention to arrange a “doorstep call”, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make such an appointment with you.

 

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v Sheppard & Short Ltd [1959] 2 QB 384. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and, if you do so, you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

xxxxxxx

 

 

Is this Ok or should i add anything else? I want to get it just right. It wont be signed.

Edited by littlericharduk
changed wording of letter slightly
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you could add after 2nd paragraph

 

I am are familiar with the CPUTR 2008 and the Office of Fair Trading's Guidance on debt collection, which states that it unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.

 

 

and put at the end -

 

I would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my liability for the debt in question.

 

I await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed. Otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to Trading Standards and also inform the Office Of Fair Trading of your actions.

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

If i help feel free to click star on my post. cheers

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