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      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Appealing Gross Misconduct to clear my name for referencing reasons


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Hi all,

 

I stumbled upon this website from a Google search and I've been reading some historic posts and it certainly seems like you've been able to help a great deal of people.

 

Story is:

 

 

  • 8th June 2012 I was fired for Gross Misconduct because of "process, performance and brand".
  • I joined this business on the 27th June 2011 (2 weeks short of being there 1 year).
  • I realise I don't have any rights to sue my previous employer as I wasn't there for a full 12 months (even though they decided to may me in Lieu of Notice and had they served the normal 28 days notice that would have taken me past 1 year's service).
  • I simply want to clear my name of this Gross Misconduct so they can provide me with a proper reference and I can say that I have left on my own terms.
  • I do not want to work there again because I felt they were trying to get me out of the door and I have since found another job (I start tomorrow 10th July).
  • Will it weaken my case if I say I don't want to work there again? - Note I work in the recruitment industry which is very incestuous so even though they can't give a 'bad' reference I have already put down on my reference contacts for my new position that my reason for leaving them is "currently under negotiation".

I have sent a summary (I had to send email from my iPhone as laptop died on me) of why I want to appeal (I can attach/send as private message if requested). They have since emailed me back asking for all reasons for appeal and that's why I'm now in an internet cafe to send them more detail, once this is sent through we will arrange to meet or deal with the appeal by phone/email (which is likely to be only option for me as I've already started at the new job)

 

I have looked through Acas and also spoke to their consultation line.

 

I'm wondering if there are any sample appeal letters or templates I can use to strengthen my case?

 

Also I have since joined the Union but they won't support with a current case and with the company being a sales company I doubt any of my previous colleagues will want to get involved because it's very easy to lose favour within sales environments.

 

 

  • In short, the outline of my appeal is that the rule I broke isn't a written rule in the employee handbook or contract and that they didn't follow the process (didn't tell me I was going into a disciplinary meeting so I didn't have time to prepare).

Many thanks for your help,

 

Ed

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Hello and welcome to CAG. I hope the guys will be able to get here over the course of the day with advice for you.

 

I don't believe there is a template letter, because everyone's case is different, but maybe someone will be able to give you an idea of what to say.

 

I'm afraid you won't be able to private message anyone yet and you should also be cautious if someone who doesn't have a history here contacts you, especially if fees are mentioned. We don't recommend advice this way in any case, for your own protection and so that advice can be reviewed by people on the forum.

 

My best, HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Hi, Welcome to the CAG

 

Sorry to hear about your troubles.

 

If you were dismissed on June 8, then appealing it on July 9 maybe out of time. Most employers only give a certain window of opportunity to appeal a disciplinary decision, normally up to about 14 days.

 

If you have this proof and such then why did you not submit this to the disciplinary chairperson? There is nothing stopping you writing to your former employer outlining your case and asking for a reference to be made for you. Perhaps even a grievance. However there is no real statutory reason that an employer has to hear a grievance once your contract has been ended.

I am not a legal professional or adviser, I am however a Law Student and very well versed areas of Employment Law. Anything I write here is purely from my own experiences! If I help, then click the star to add to my reputation :)

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Hi all,

 

I stumbled upon this website from a Google search and I've been reading some historic posts and it certainly seems like you've been able to help a great deal of people.

 

Story is:

 

 

  • 8th June 2012 I was fired for Gross Misconduct because of "process, performance and brand".
  • I joined this business on the 27th June 2011 (2 weeks short of being there 1 year).
  • I realise I don't have any rights to sue my previous employer as I wasn't there for a full 12 months (even though they decided to may me in Lieu of Notice and had they served the normal 28 days notice that would have taken me past 1 year's service).
  • I simply want to clear my name of this Gross Misconduct so they can provide me with a proper reference and I can say that I have left on my own terms.
  • I do not want to work there again because I felt they were trying to get me out of the door and I have since found another job (I start tomorrow 10th July).
  • Will it weaken my case if I say I don't want to work there again? - Note I work in the recruitment industry which is very incestuous so even though they can't give a 'bad' reference I have already put down on my reference contacts for my new position that my reason for leaving them is "currently under negotiation".

I have sent a summary (I had to send email from my iPhone as laptop died on me) of why I want to appeal (I can attach/send as private message if requested). They have since emailed me back asking for all reasons for appeal and that's why I'm now in an internet cafe to send them more detail, once this is sent through we will arrange to meet or deal with the appeal by phone/email (which is likely to be only option for me as I've already started at the new job)

 

I have looked through Acas and also spoke to their consultation line.

 

I'm wondering if there are any sample appeal letters or templates I can use to strengthen my case?

 

Also I have since joined the Union but they won't support with a current case and with the company being a sales company I doubt any of my previous colleagues will want to get involved because it's very easy to lose favour within sales environments.

 

 

  • In short, the outline of my appeal is that the rule I broke isn't a written rule in the employee handbook or contract and that they didn't follow the process (didn't tell me I was going into a disciplinary meeting so I didn't have time to prepare).

Many thanks for your help,

 

Ed

 

Hello and welcome!

 

You cannot be sacked for breaking a clause which is not in the handbook or other publication. The problem here is, it is easy enough for them to put it in the publications (not saying they will). do you have copies of the handbooks and publications?

You have done the right thing writing to them and giving your reasons for the disciplinary to be retracted. ACAS will expect this to be done. However, you may find it is out of the period of time your ex employer gives for appeals and greviences.

Have they paid you your full notice? Did they pay you any notice? If they did and you were supposed to get a period which takes you over the 1 year, then you can claim.

ACAS may still take your claim with it being just under the one year time period. Call them and ask!

 

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Well, they can sack you, they do not even need to give a reason because you are under 1 year service. Stretching my knowledge, but I am also sure that a full process does not have to be followed with under a years service, that might be 6 months - i cant remember.

 

They could just turn around and say - we didn't like you - that is grounds to dismiss you with under 1 years service.

I am not a legal professional or adviser, I am however a Law Student and very well versed areas of Employment Law. Anything I write here is purely from my own experiences! If I help, then click the star to add to my reputation :)

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Thanks for all the warm welcomes.

 

The appeal process has already started so I haven't missed the boat as a summary email has been sent. I am now following this up with a more formal letter (the HR Director was also on holiday last week so we have arranged to speak this week).

 

mrsfoot - I have been paid for the whole month of June, not 28 days after the 8th June. When I spoke to Acas they said I have no ground to make a complaint about them not following process as I wasn't there a year so they don't need to follow the usual disciplinary procedures.

- But the adviser did find it strange that they did it so close to 1 year service and still decided to pay in lieu, and perhaps there are grounds for me to complain if I believe their decision would be different had I been there 1 year and have more rights - ie. taking them to a tribunal.

 

My probationary period was 3 months, so surely once you've passed that they can't fire you because they don't like you before 1 year?

 

One thing I want to check straight away is it will weaken my case if I tell them I don't want to go back if they do offer me my previous position, or will this make them more likely to revoke the Gross Misconduct as they won't need to employ me again so it may save them a lot of hassle?

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"process performance and Brand" is not gross misconduct.

 

If you did whatever it was and it is clear to a reasonable person you should not have then you don't really have an appeal. I also don't understand why you left it a month.

 

It's only hassle to them if they think they did something wrong. Even then they may decide to wait it out for a few months. So be polite, point out where you think the errors are, and hope.

Never assume anyone on the internet is who they say they are. Only rely on advice from insured professionals you have paid for!

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"My probationary period was 3 months, so surely once you've passed that they can't fire you because they don't like you before 1 year?

 

One thing I want to check straight away is it will weaken my case if I tell them I don't want to go back if they do offer me my previous position, or will this make them more likely to revoke the Gross Misconduct as they won't need to employ me again so it may save them a lot of hassle?"

 

Unfortunately, probationary periods mean very little, legally speaking. As PPs have indicated, with under 51 weeks service, they don't have to have a "good" reason to dismiss, merely one which is non discriminatory.

 

The happy(!) news is, in your next job, it'll be increased to two years as that's how long you now need to issue a claim!

 

You could go through the process, hope it's overturned, and then resign as this would strike the gross misconduct from the record. However, as they've paid you in lieu of notice, it's highly unlikely its gross misconduct anyway, as they'd have sacked you on the spot.

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