Definition of "period of absence"

[insigniades]

Another question for you guys, obviously I made you aware that I had a capability hearing last week and the outcome was extended absence monitoring - if I was to be signed off work again under no choice of my own but that of my GP - what is the chance that even though the capability has only just been carried out - that they could setup another hearing and dismiss me?

[papasmurf1cx]

Another question for you guys, obviously I made you aware that I had a capability hearing last week and the outcome was extended absence monitoring - if I was to be signed off work again under no choice of my own but that of my GP - what is the chance that even though the capability has only just been carried out - that they could setup another hearing and dismiss me?

 

 

The thing you have to understand that employers can do anything they want, even if it is unfair and illegal (or is that unlawful can never remember) you then have the task of fighting their decisions and that means taking it to an ET. Chances are if you went sick then they would restart the whole process. However if you are saying they caused the stress in the first place that causes them a problem as I said before, in that case they may give you 'more' rope to hang yourself, so to speak, and to show that they were 'fair'. Brace yourself for a fight.

 

One tactic employers use is economic sanction ie withdrawal of pay eg 6 month full pay 6 month half pay then nothing or whatever equivilent your company have, then they spin out the time going on an on and on. Eventually the employee is forced to leave or come back. Then they have won, they rarely get rid of people where they think they have discriminated against for fear of worsening that discrimination. It is tricky all round.

[insigniades]

Hi papasmurf, I was signed off before they gave me an extended monitoring period - what I mean is even though it was only 2 weeks ago that they KNEW I was signed off - if I get signed off a further 2 weeks could they take me to a second capability hearing in the space of a month even though they were well aware I was off sick when they let me off last time?

 

thanks for your advice!!

[papasmurf1cx]

The answer is they can do anything they want..... just wait for developments. This is a game of to and fro. The stakes get higher the longer you are in it.

[insigniades]

Let me rephrase it then, if they did dismiss me even though they have only just given me an extended monitoring period - how would the stand in an ET?

[papasmurf1cx]

ET judges are fickle, you may or amy not win. Tp be honest you have to wait and see and react to their actions. Don't try and cross the bridges before you come to them there are many obstacles before that.

[insigniades]

Thanks again

[insigniades]

Hi guys

 

I had a capability hearing back in November to discuss my absence, I've had a few long term absences in the past 18 months - which were initially put down to "work related stress" - I have been off again recently (only returning today) but this time my doctor has made the decision that it can't just be work related stress and put me on antidepressants which are helping.

 

Now with the fact that the previous absences have all been work related stress (initially started after a prolonged period of conflict with a superior) and now it has been determined I have depression - what are the chances of me being covered by the DDA?

 

The outcome from my last hearing was - not to dismiss but given a final notice, which basically states that if after that final notice you have 1 period of absence - the notice is extended by 6 months - if you have a further absence in the following 6 months it lapses but if you have 2 then its a capability hearing.

 

I have only had 1 absence since the decision to give a final notice BUT at the time the final notice was given I was off sick and they raised a point that they may have to extend it straight away.

 

How does this all sound? I'm getting pretty fed up of it, every day is a constant battle without these people putting me under pressure too.

 

Thanks

[becky2585]

The DDA has now been replaced by the Equality Act, but the provisions are substantially the same.

 

Regarding depression, if it substantially affects you on a daily basis, and has lasted or will last more than 12 months, it will be covered by the new Act.

 

Without knowing the exact details, it sounds like they are following a standard capability/absence management procedure. If you are disabled, you could argue that disability related absences should be discounted from the process, though.

[insigniades]

It has affected my memory, concentration and sleep for the past 12 - 18 months.

 

Yeah they are following the capability procedures but with one slight exception, I was never notified of an extension to my notice so it should be extended - if they do pull me into a hearing then I should have had it in writing that my notice was extended, that never happened.

 

Thanks for your response!

[becky2585]

You're welcome I presume that they have taken you through a series of meetings and issued you with other formal warnings before moving to a final written warning? Only in exceptional circumstances is a final written warning permitted as the first stage of the capability process, and this doesn't sound like an extreme situation to me so far.

[insigniades]

Yeah I had a NOC (notification of concern) then an FNOC (final notification of concern) - the procedure states that if you have only 1 absence in the 6 months following an FNOC it will be extended by 6 months, then as long as you have no more than 1 absence in the extended 6 months it will lapse.

 

As far as I'm concerned they haven't yet extended it so that should be the next step, but it's how I handle it if they decide to ignore the procedure n move straight to the hearing!

 

Thanks again

[insigniades]

Hi all

 

Quick background to this problem:

 

I received a letter in May this year from the Director of my department related to my sickness absence which has been quite high due to a history of stress and depression.

 

In this letter he stated:

 

"You need to be aware if you have two periods of absence in the next six months (prior to the 23rd November 2012) you will trigger a Capability Hearing which may result in the termination of your contract"

 

I'm currently on sick, and have been for 2 weeks - what started initially as Gastroenteritis has overlapped into a respiratory infection for which I have been prescribed an inhaler and given a week off (but with the option to go back sooner).

 

I have spoken to my line manager to do to explain the situation and asked him whether I was still going to be okay as it was still technically 1 period of absence, he responded by telling me he isn't sure because it's 2 illnesses whether that would be 2 periods of absence?

 

But obviously a period is defined as "A length or portion of time" so surely, because I have been off constantly this past 2 weeks it's still 1 period of absence?

 

Any advice anybody can give would be awesome - thanks!

[Emmzzi]

Sounds like one period to me. In any case what is most important is that you can show what you are doing to stay healthy - do you have a robust plan with your doctor for better mental and physical health? If it gets to a hearing that would help a lot, as well as helping you avoid one.

[insigniades]

I've already conquered the mental health side of things and shown a massive improvement in the past 6 months - no longer dependent on tablets - I'm very positive and upbeat and have been working extremely hard and firing on all cylinders.

 

This current illness is all to do with what my doc described as a viral infection - I just need to clarify what 1 period of absence is so I can be sure they can't drag me through another capability hearing!

 

Thanks for your response

[Emmzzi]

They will look at your entire medical history not just this one bit. That is why it is important to have a record of what you have done on all health fronts and when.

 

Very glad you are feeling better though!

 

Have a google of the Bradford index and make sure you have a full copy of the company sick policy.

[insigniades]

I've read through the company sickness policy more times than I care to mention haha, it states exactly as was put in my letter "2 periods of absence in the following six month from an FNOC will lead to a capability hearing" - they don't define what 1 period of absence is in the policy though so they could technically say if they want each illness is a period of absence - it shouldn't be as a period is an amount of time so it's technically "the period of time you have been absent".

 

I suppose only time will tell what will happen!

[Emmzzi]

Fnoc?

[insigniades]

Final notification of concern - basically it's a letter that says you need to improve your attendance, I received the FNOC after the capability hearing I had back in November last year after the bouts of depression and stress.

[insigniades]

I don't know if it matters but, the majority of my sickness has been stress/depression this one is the first time i've had Gastroenteritis/Respiratory Infection...

[Emmzzi]

No, iyt makes no difference unless anything is a disability (lasting more than 12 months, roughly)

[insigniades]

Ah right fair enough, well as I say this should still be 1 period of absence regardless of having 2 different illnesses right?

[Emmzzi]

Thatr is my interpretation but I am not your boss!!

[insigniades]

This is true...

[lbruk]

Has there been a return to work between the 2 illnesses?

 

If there has = 2 periods

If there has not = 1 period