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universal credits and vouchers


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So, something like Building Societies used to be? Certainly no use to me as I'm not in a position to save anything ...

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So, something like Building Societies used to be? Certainly no use to me as I'm not in a position to save anything ...

 

Yes, basically. They're huge business in the USA now, offering services very similar to those offered by banks. Here in the UK they tend to be smaller, more local concerns, at least for now. As dissatisfaction with the big banks grows I can see them becoming more popular.

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London is not too clever on the farmers market side of things! Good quality meat can be found of course.............at a price.

 

There's quite a few depending on where you are located this lists some http://www.lfm.org.uk/

 

There's loads more not listed on that link and also daily markets. I used to cycle to Kingston and the daily market there left me flabbergasted price wise 3 avocados the size of your hand (inc fingers) for a £1

 

You can also get fish straight off the docks dirt cheap if you get up early enough http://www.yelp.co.uk/biz/billingsgate-fish-market-london.

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From my understanding a Credit Union is a bit like a building society savings account, you have a paying in/out book, benefits and wages can be paid directly into the account, there are no credit checks in place to open one, but you have to undertake to save an amount each week/fortnight, the idea is that you can borrow money up to the amount of savings you have so for example if you had £100 saved by December you could borrow £100 for Christmas and your savings guarantee the loan.

I understand that the interest rates on loans are far better than banks.

 

Huh? That sounds a bit of a con.

 

So if I have £1000 saved up they will allow me to borrow £1000 AND pay it back with interest as well as continuing to save?

 

Why don't you draw out the £1000? You are paying interest for the privilige of borrowing your own money!!!

 

Yeah that is a good deal if ever I saw one!

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So if I have £1000 saved up they will allow me to borrow £1000 AND pay it back with interest as well as continuing to save?
Yes that's the deal with Credit Unions, borrow money from anywhere and interest is payable it's just a better rate with them.

 

Why don't you draw out the £1000? You are paying interest for the privilige of borrowing your own money!!!
Why does anyone borrow money? People take out loans using their homes as collateral, using your logic should they simply sell the home instead of taking out a loan? Remember these accounts are not credit scored, they afford safe low interest loans to people whose only other option would be a loan shark.

 

The reason an account holder needs some savings before taking out a loan is purely to protect the Union, otherwise some unscrupulous people would simply deposit say £10, borrow £200, and disappear.

 

Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges

 

Being poor is like being a Pelican. No matter where you look, all you see is a large bill.

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Yes that's the deal with Credit Unions, borrow money from anywhere and interest is payable it's just a better rate with them.

 

Why does anyone borrow money? People take out loans using their homes as collateral, using your logic should they simply sell the home instead of taking out a loan? Remember these accounts are not credit scored, they afford safe low interest loans to people whose only other option would be a loan shark.

 

The reason an account holder needs some savings before taking out a loan is purely to protect the Union, otherwise some unscrupulous people would simply deposit say £10, borrow £200, and disappear.

 

I'm sorry but I think I have heard it all now.

 

I should damned well hope that I would be paying a lower rate of interest, in fact it should be '0'! I'm borrowing my own money AND paying interest for doing so.

 

If I was borrowing someone else's money then yes, of course I would pay interest. But come on, this has got to be a wind up.

 

Why would I want to borrow money from myself and pay interest when I could just draw it out myself?

 

People borrow money because they don't have it. Your example is just the same as me going into my bank and asking the bank to lend me say £5000, when I already have £5000 sitting in my current account I could use. The bank manager would think I have either lost a screw or would see me as the most desirable customer ever.

 

Collateral yes, generally an asset, not cash sitting in my current account.

 

Where do these people come from that dream up these scams.

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from april 2013 with the roll out of UC claiments who apply for a crisis loan will no longer be issued with cash...

from this time they will only be issued with a voucher to use in a recycling centre, or store cards which will prohibit the buying of alcohol and cigarettes....

link here

http://atosvictimsgroup.co.uk/2012/06/29/welfare-cuts-welcome-to-the-era-of-vouchers-for-the-poor/

 

WHAT?????????!

 

I need to read the rest of the thread yet, but WHAT is a "recycling centre"?? Isn't it where some of your rubbish (tins, bottles etc) goes to be...recycled??

 

And what if you needed the CASH to put money on your electric key??

 

*goes to read rest of thread*

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WHAT?????????!

 

I need to read the rest of the thread yet, but WHAT is a "recycling centre"?? Isn't it where some of your rubbish (tins, bottles etc) goes to be...recycled??

 

And what if you needed the CASH to put money on your electric key??

 

*goes to read rest of thread*

 

You're right, rich people throw away white good after a few years, people check 'em out and flog 'em to the poor.

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You're right, rich people throw away white good after a few years, people check 'em out and flog 'em to the poor.

 

Oh, you mean the household section at the local tip! OMG.

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I think they may also mean things like our Furniture Recycling Project where people who are getting rid of furniture have it collected and refurbished and then sold for charity...we have a shop in town....it is full of second hand stuff (or recycled as we now seem to call it)...low prices......electricity checked if appropriate.

 

But definitely used and often seen better days......

 

But then I suppose the argument will be that in a real crisis you would rather have something than nothing....even if it had been used before.....

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But then I suppose the argument will be that in a real crisis you would rather have something than nothing....even if it had been used before.....

 

And that's fair enough, I suppose - even at present, Crisis Loans hardly allow people to buy the latest, greatest hitech washing machines or cookers. So I have no problem with it being treated like the old Advisor Discretionary Funds, where if you went to a JCP and asked for help to buy a suit for work, they'd send you off to Burtons to find a suit, then cut a check directly to the shop.

 

There are two things that worry me about this, though. Rainbo mentioned the issue of cash for electric meters etc. That's a valid worry.

 

And also, although this is being mooted for CL at the moment, does anyone really believe that it will stay that restricted? I see it as a way to open the door to paying most benefits in kind, something I find morally and ethically repulsive in principle and horribly difficult to administer in practice.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING. EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

The idea that all politicians lie is music to the ears of the most egregious liars.

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Yes that's the deal with Credit Unions, borrow money from anywhere and interest is payable it's just a better rate with them.

 

Why does anyone borrow money? People take out loans using their homes as collateral, using your logic should they simply sell the home instead of taking out a loan? Remember these accounts are not credit scored, they afford safe low interest loans to people whose only other option would be a loan shark.

 

The reason an account holder needs some savings before taking out a loan is purely to protect the Union, otherwise some unscrupulous people would simply deposit say £10, borrow £200, and disappear.

it doesnt quite work like that...you do have to save but not a set amount in order to borrow a larger amount

link here

http://www.tameside.gov.uk/creditunion

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You can't usually claim a crisis loan for household items though, unless you have been party to a household emergency such as flooding.

My other problem is that they money that is going to be issued to the LA's to use for crisis loans isn't going to be ringfenced for this purpose either so they can divert the money elsewhere.

 

I think it is a way of phasing them out.

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Guest amianne
WHAT?????????!

 

I need to read the rest of the thread yet, but WHAT is a "recycling centre"?? Isn't it where some of your rubbish (tins, bottles etc) goes to be...recycled??

 

And what if you needed the CASH to put money on your electric key??

 

*goes to read rest of thread*

 

To be honest I have no idea. We have one locally, but it is a charity and only deals with glass, tins and garden refuse.

 

It could well be a shack/shed put up by the council at the local tip where they sort through things that others throw away. The best of the bunch could be 'sold' to those in need.

 

Gas and electric keys could be charged at any paypoint shop using the card, but there will probably be a maximum amount that you can use this way out of the benefit money.

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And that's fair enough, I suppose - even at present, Crisis Loans hardly allow people to buy the latest, greatest hitech washing machines or cookers. So I have no problem with it being treated like the old Advisor Discretionary Funds, where if you went to a JCP and asked for help to buy a suit for work, they'd send you off to Burtons to find a suit, then cut a check directly to the shop.

 

There are two things that worry me about this, though. Rainbo mentioned the issue of cash for electric meters etc. That's a valid worry.

 

And also, although this is being mooted for CL at the moment, does anyone really believe that it will stay that restricted? I see it as a way to open the door to paying most benefits in kind, something I find morally and ethically repulsive in principle and horribly difficult to administer in practice.

 

Both America and Australia now use this system. It is based on a card, similar to a debit card, except that it gets charged up with your benefit money. The card has restrictions of use built in, which will stop people buying fags, booze and drugs.

 

It is possible that using this system the government can set limits each week on what you are allowed to buy such as unhealthy food, takeaways etc.

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You can't usually claim a crisis loan for household items though, unless you have been party to a household emergency such as flooding.

My other problem is that they money that is going to be issued to the LA's to use for crisis loans isn't going to be ringfenced for this purpose either so they can divert the money elsewhere.

 

I think it is a way of phasing them out.

 

Is is the budgeting loan that allows for purchase of furniture?

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Both America and Australia now use this system. It is based on a card, similar to a debit card, except that it gets charged up with your benefit money. The card has restrictions of use built in, which will stop people buying fags, booze and drugs.

 

It is possible that using this system the government can set limits each week on what you are allowed to buy such as unhealthy food, takeaways etc.

 

Oh, I know exactly how the US system works, having lived there. My late wife had health conditions and had to claim food stamps for a couple of months - I probably still have her defunct EBT card somewhere. She could use it to buy most food items (though not hot food in supermarkets) and also seeds, interestingly.

 

What you couldn't buy, of course, were things like toilet paper, toothpaste, feminine hygiene products, or soap. The poor are known as the "unwashed" for a reason, apparently. So people (not my wife, as we thankfully had another small income - mine) would trade their EBT credits for cash; 75 cents on the dollar was the going rate. And sure, some would buy booze and smokes with that cash, but others would buy, well, essentials.

 

OK, that's maybe an implementation problem. Surely our wonderful government wouldn't cock this up so badly? Well, here's another thing: as soon as you took out an EBT card at the checkout, you'd basically be broadcasting an ad to everyone in the checkout line: "Look, folks! I'm poor! Please scrutinise the contents of my shopping cart! If you disapprove of some of those contents, feel free to tut in righteous moral outrage!"

 

And funnily enough, that kind of thing doesn't really help people feel like part of a greater society. Which, really, needs to be the intention. In fact, it's the stated intention of our welfare programmes: to help people back to work, back into the world in which "normal" people live. People have money. People budget that money. People allow themselves the occasional treat (perhaps even a beer) so that life doesn't feel like a daily trip to hell from the moment they wake to the moment they fall asleep. People get to go to the grocery store without total strangers analysing the wisdom of their weekly Tesco purchases. Is there some problem with that? Is there a compelling, articulable reason why this should be denied to those on benefits?

 

I mean, after all, it's not like you can go back to the DWP at the end of the week and say "Um, I spent all my money on booze, fags and lobster. Please sir, can I have some more?"

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The idea that all politicians lie is music to the ears of the most egregious liars.

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Oh, I know exactly how the US system works, having lived there. My late wife had health conditions and had to claim food stamps for a couple of months - I probably still have her defunct EBT card somewhere. She could use it to buy most food items (though not hot food in supermarkets) and also seeds, interestingly.

 

What you couldn't buy, of course, were things like toilet paper, toothpaste, feminine hygiene products, or soap. The poor are known as the "unwashed" for a reason, apparently. So people (not my wife, as we thankfully had another small income - mine) would trade their EBT credits for cash; 75 cents on the dollar was the going rate. And sure, some would buy booze and smokes with that cash, but others would buy, well, essentials.

 

OK, that's maybe an implementation problem. Surely our wonderful government wouldn't cock this up so badly? Well, here's another thing: as soon as you took out an EBT card at the checkout, you'd basically be broadcasting an ad to everyone in the checkout line: "Look, folks! I'm poor! Please scrutinise the contents of my shopping cart! If you disapprove of some of those contents, feel free to tut in righteous moral outrage!"

 

And funnily enough, that kind of thing doesn't really help people feel like part of a greater society. Which, really, needs to be the intention. In fact, it's the stated intention of our welfare programmes: to help people back to work, back into the world in which "normal" people live. People have money. People budget that money. People allow themselves the occasional treat (perhaps even a beer) so that life doesn't feel like a daily trip to hell from the moment they wake to the moment they fall asleep. People get to go to the grocery store without total strangers analysing the wisdom of their weekly Tesco purchases. Is there some problem with that? Is there a compelling, articulable reason why this should be denied to those on benefits?

 

I mean, after all, it's not like you can go back to the DWP at the end of the week and say "Um, I spent all my money on booze, fags and lobster. Please sir, can I have some more?"

 

I think that the point in question is that the government here stand accused of funding a lifestyle via benefits which are directly paid for in part by those that work, pay tax and NIC's.

 

Given that, in my opinion, should not the government have a responsibility to ensure that the money they hand out is spent wisely? It is accepted that where cash is involved, there can be no control. However with a card, they can control any abuse of it and at the same time ensure that the country gets value for money, by only allowing healthy food etc to be purchased.

 

Surely those that rely on these benefits can see this and that they, in exchange for this money, accept that some control is needed?

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I think that the point in question is that the government here stand accused of funding a lifestyle via benefits which are directly paid for in part by those that work, pay tax and NIC's.

 

Given that, in my opinion, should not the government have a responsibility to ensure that the money they hand out is spent wisely? It is accepted that where cash is involved, there can be no control. However with a card, they can control any abuse of it and at the same time ensure that the country gets value for money, by only allowing healthy food etc to be purchased.

 

Surely those that rely on these benefits can see this and that they, in exchange for this money, accept that some control is needed?

welcome to the sharing caring uk of today.....purchase healthy food? on the pittance they pay you on benefit....are u really that naive? the last time i could afford 'healthy' food was when I was fully employed....i am afraid now its...getting value out of every penny i spend...if you honestly believe the government propoganda that life on benefits is a utopia...i suggest you try it for a year or two....then post back.....

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As mentioned a few have spoilt it for the majority who have a genuine need so I can understand why they want to introduce the voucher system.

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welcome to the sharing caring uk of today.....purchase healthy food? on the pittance they pay you on benefit....are u really that naive? the last time i could afford 'healthy' food was when I was fully employed....i am afraid now its...getting value out of every penny i spend...if you honestly believe the government propoganda that life on benefits is a utopia...i suggest you try it for a year or two....then post back.....

 

I never said it was Utopia. What I was trying to point out, and there must be 1000's more in this country with the same opinion as I, is that up to now, money paid out in cash COULD be used for things other than for the reason given for it in the first place (Crisis Loans). And for those in receipt of benefits to show that they are doing the best they can with the money they get, is it not reasonable to ask that some control over what they spend it on should be imposed?

 

It would also help those that find it difficult to budget properly, if limits are laid down on some elements of their spending and a complete ban on those elements that are unacceptable - such as alcohol, tobacco, drugs, takeaways etc? If you remove those four sectors from being purchased, just think how much money could be saved by the NHS in treating the associated ill health conditions.

 

As someone has already said somewhere, vouchers will no doubt find their way on to Ebay or the 'black market'. With a card system, much like the current 'prepaid credit cards' it will be much more difficult to 'sell' them as the card would have all benefits being credited to it on a weekly/2 weekly cycle.

Edited by amianne
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You can't usually claim a crisis loan for household items though, unless you have been party to a household emergency such as flooding.

My other problem is that they money that is going to be issued to the LA's to use for crisis loans isn't going to be ringfenced for this purpose either so they can divert the money elsewhere.

 

I think it is a way of phasing them out.

 

My ex-husband had to get a crisis loan when he was given an empty LA home. He applied for a budget loan, but as he was on contribution based ESA at the time, he wasn't entitled to one, so they automatically offered a crisis loan. So yes, they do hand crisis loans out for household items.

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It would also help those that find it difficult to budget properly, if limits are laid down on some elements of their spending and a complete ban on those elements that are unacceptable - such as alcohol, tobacco, drugs, takeaways etc? If you remove those four sectors from being purchased, just think how much money could be saved by the NHS in treating the associated ill health conditions.

 

Illegal drugs are already banned from purchase, and while we are on the subject of saving money and lives, lets ban the rest outright, or is it only those on benefits that are adversely effected by alcohol, and tobacco?

 

Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges

 

Being poor is like being a Pelican. No matter where you look, all you see is a large bill.

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You could look at this another way tbf.

 

People have wised up to the supermarket con and they've started to shift to better priced and quality purveyors.

 

Couple of quick words like we'll pay even less tax and shed jobs because of this unless.....

 

You through out a load of propaganda, whilst we'll increase party donations and do what every we can to keep prices stable (i.e. inflation).

 

Bob's your Uncle and Fanny's your Aunt here's 2-4 million poor folks to exploit!

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