universal credits and vouchers

[debt4get]

from april 2013 with the roll out of UC claiments who apply for a crisis loan will no longer be issued with cash...

from this time they will only be issued with a voucher to use in a recycling centre, or store cards which will prohibit the buying of alcohol and cigarettes....

link here

http://atosvictimsgroup.co.uk/2012/06/29/welfare-cuts-welcome-to-the-era-of-vouchers-for-the-poor/

[Nystagmite]

How demoralising.

[osdset]

This just backs up my suspicions that the government are following the American model, food stamps under a different name, tent cities will be just around the corner.

 

How long before the NHS is totally privatised and we have people turned away from casualty because they have no insurance?

[Guest amianne]

I do have to admit that this is probably something that shouldn't happen.

 

I don't have any objection to vouchers being issued instead of cash, but I do worry that these vouchers can only be used in places that the the LA have authorised.

I am also concerned that any level of choice is being removed.

 

Vouchers are a good thing in one respect. They will, overnight, stop claimants using crisis loan money for things that are not acceptable cigs, booze, drugs, nights out etc.

It would stop a parent using the money for themselves instead of the children if that is what it was claimed for.

 

To me it will identify the poor to everyone around which is not fair. It will create a class level - the poor and destitute. They may even have a separate 'till' at supermarkets where 'these' people can use their vouchers, with the shop assistant inspecting what is being bought with them.

 

What does worry me, is the intention to use re-cycling centres for white goods and beds.

There is no way that I can accept that a second hand electrical item is the way forward. I just would not trust it to be safe nor would I be happy that if it is someone else's throwaway, there must be a good reason for it being disguarded.

As for beds, the thought of sleeping on a second hand mattress is disgusting. I refuse to stay in a hotel for that reason and why we have a caravan.

 

Pros & cons - In the end we only have ourselves to blame. It is well known that crisis loans are used for things that were never intended. They are abused.

 

The answer, everyone suffers in order to stop those that abuse the system. Does that statement ring any bells?

[johnvernon74]

Im sure people will just sell them for cash !

[Nystagmite]

Im sure people will just sell them for cash !

 

Exactly.

 

And how much is this going to cost to administer? Is there going to be a limit where you can spend these? Because for me if they can only be used at the supermarkets, that's a good hour's walk to the closest supermarket.

[flumps1976]

Wouldn't they refer to a food bank in preference to a card for groceries?

 

Not good but once again those that have fleeced the system have spoilt for those in genuine need.

[count orlok]

Sounds like a good way to pay loan sharks, should stop the poor using PDL though.

 

I do love this country. I'm really looking forward to private health care as it'll save me loads; I won't be able to get health insurance. Or will we get our own version of Obamacare: Cameroncare?

[osdset]

Yes sell the 'chits' for cash, no doubt some enterprising George Daly clone will offer £0.75p in the pound, and there will be those desperate to take it, and why the fuss over crisis loans? It's a loan, it gets paid back, by deductions from benefit. If it were one off payments or grants getting abused I could understand there being a problem.

[Guest amianne]

Yes sell the 'chits' for cash, no doubt some enterprising George Daly clone will offer £0.75p in the pound, and there will be those desperate to take it, and why the fuss over crisis loans? It's a loan, it gets paid back, by deductions from benefit. If it were one off payments or grants getting abused I could understand there being a problem.

 

Simply because with a voucher all manner of controls can be imposed on what they are spent on, where they are spent and to ensure that only the bare minimum advance is required.

 

The LA will be able to control you more efficiently.

[MIKEY DABODEE]

I suppose it could be argued its an interest free loan that costs quite a lot of money to administer, so the goverment is going for saving where it can,

not saying I agree with the voucher scheme. But I wonder if so many people would apply for the loans if there was interest charged on them

 

But we all have used High Street vouchers in the past, if these vouchers were cashable in most retail food outlets, then that would be better then limiting them to certain supermarkets

 

They will end up on Ebee with people biding on them. Or like the old milk tokens that were often exchanged for other items..... and not always milk

[sadone]

 

Not good but once again those that have fleeced the system have spoilt for those in genuine need.

 

How come that attitude is never applied to those who really 'fleece' the system, and thats the politicians themselves? I'm betting that they spend far more of the the tax payers money on feathering their own nests (literally when it comes to MP's second homes) then any benefit claimants out there.

[debt4get]

I do have to admit that this is probably something that shouldn't happen.

 

I don't have any objection to vouchers being issued instead of cash, but I do worry that these vouchers can only be used in places that the the LA have authorised.

I am also concerned that any level of choice is being removed.

 

Vouchers are a good thing in one respect. They will, overnight, stop claimants using crisis loan money for things that are not acceptable cigs, booze, drugs, nights out etc.

It would stop a parent using the money for themselves instead of the children if that is what it was claimed for.

 

To me it will identify the poor to everyone around which is not fair. It will create a class level - the poor and destitute. They may even have a separate 'till' at supermarkets where 'these' people can use their vouchers, with the shop assistant inspecting what is being bought with them.

 

What does worry me, is the intention to use re-cycling centres for white goods and beds.

There is no way that I can accept that a second hand electrical item is the way forward. I just would not trust it to be safe nor would I be happy that if it is someone else's throwaway, there must be a good reason for it being disguarded.

As for beds, the thought of sleeping on a second hand mattress is disgusting. I refuse to stay in a hotel for that reason and why we have a caravan.

 

Pros & cons - In the end we only have ourselves to blame. It is well known that crisis loans are used for things that were never intended. They are abused.

 

The answer, everyone suffers in order to stop those that abuse the system. Does that statement ring any bells?

I admire your response amianne...just hope you never ever become too sick, ill, disabled, unemployed, or old.....and have to rely on any state handout....just wonder why you assume that the system is abused? and you are quite correct about creating a class of society that are poor..unfortunately look around you...we are are already here....and you are also correct they will have a separate till at the supermarket and their purchases will be checked....

[MIKEY DABODEE]

Debt, I cant see how this will ever be policed,

will the DEPT need to see every receipt too check for cigs and booze,

and where do you draw the line, will you be able to buy something like bleach, washing powder,

you cant eat these but you need them..

I think there is a lot of speculation about.

we will have to wait and see

[debt4get]

Mikey, both you and i know that these vouchers will simply end up on the 'black' market....people who use the system will find a way to circumvent it....the genuine will just carry on blindly accepting their fate...and we will have to wait and see what actually is put in place

[flumps1976]

I can see that receipts will have to be provided at some stage and if not supplied then they will not issue any further payments for crisis loans similar to the ADF/FSF schemes.

[citizenkain]

obviously we will need to bring in identity cards as well to make sure these are used by the correct people

[Nystagmite]

And how much is this going to cost to implement? As above, you'd need some form of ID, then there's the printing and sending out of the vouchers, etc.

[speedfreek]

There's so many ways now to buy food and get stuff on the cheap. Maybe we should have a thread for it?

 

How to seek help and cheaper ways to live a fantastic life on dole?

 

I'll give you a starter for 10 http://www.sustainweb.org/foodcoops/finder/

 

You can also find local buying collectives for all sorts of stuff and as long as you can butcher a bit (and have a freezer) bulk buy meat.

 

Plus a 5 point bonus - most Councils are now linked to (non Work Program) charities who can help with employment advice, work placements, training and housing.

 

I honestly think I'd starve if I was forced to buy food from Tesco or Sainsburys. Not being snobby I just think their produce is substandard and way over priced for the quality (well lack) of it.

 

Lidl for veg and household goods as they're at least 50p to a £1 cheaper per item then the big Supers. I use that saving to by the most amazing meat imaginable off the nice bloke from the West Country who has a little stall on a farmers market every sat in the rich part of town. I couldn't buy for love nor money the quality of his meat in a supermarket.

 

The real issue is not access to food/goods but cheap credit when you're a bit short.

 

I'm wondering if this measure is to force people/support organizations into Camerons' "Big Society Bank" - erm sorry renamed to "Big Society Capital" - which appears to be a hedge fund (well operates like one). It's probably going to be renamed Social Hedge Capital Loan Shark Fund Plus in a few months

 

http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/news/big-society-bank-launched/

 

A real Credit Union for the poor would be nice but fraught with difficulties especially in the enforcement of non payment. I reckon the debt board would have a view on best policy for that.

 

If something doesn't happen soon Cathy Come Home is going to look like a Disney production post 2015

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathy_Come_Home

[osdset]

London is not too clever on the farmers market side of things! Good quality meat can be found of course.............at a price.

I agree about LIDL and ALDI is not bad either, I've even found Bury black pudding in a 99p shop! I'm no expert on black pudding but this one was the same as advertised on Bury's web site and it went down well.

 

The Credit Unions are beginning to take off where I live, I have not needed to use one but I think they are coming more into line with the banks, I did hear that my local one was bringing in it's own debit card.

[Guest amianne]

London is not too clever on the farmers market side of things! Good quality meat can be found of course.............at a price.

I agree about LIDL and ALDI is not bad either, I've even found Bury black pudding in a 99p shop! I'm no expert on black pudding but this one was the same as advertised on Bury's web site and it went down well.

 

The Credit Unions are beginning to take off where I live, I have not needed to use one but I think they are coming more into line with the banks, I did hear that my local one was bringing in it's own debit card.

 

I have to smile when I hear that. Bury Black Puddings in London and in a 99p shop!!!

I have mine sent down here at regular intervals by relatives direct from Bury Market!!

 

I just cannot believe how people are just so accepting.

 

I think my grandad if he was alive would be able to recognise what is going on - what with food banks, vouchers for every day items, a shack next to the local tip where you can collect a second hand bed complete with matteress.

Credit Unions on the up!

 

No doubt we will get the tally man back to collect the couple of quid a week for the sofa that's on HP, the insurance man collecting the premiums door to door every Friday oh and of course the guy from Provident to collect the weekly instalment for the loan used to buy the carpet square (only posh people have it fitted!) Oh yes, the guy from Radio Rentals to empty the box at the back of the tele.

 

What a way to run a country in the 21st century!

[MIKEY DABODEE]

can anyone help

What exactly is a credit union

people have their benefits paid directly into these accounts , they seem to cause nothing but trouble,

why would someone want their money paid into a shared account,

can anyone shed any light

[osdset]

From my understanding a Credit Union is a bit like a building society savings account, you have a paying in/out book, benefits and wages can be paid directly into the account, there are no credit checks in place to open one, but you have to undertake to save an amount each week/fortnight, the idea is that you can borrow money up to the amount of savings you have so for example if you had £100 saved by December you could borrow £100 for Christmas and your savings guarantee the loan.

 

I understand that the interest rates on loans are far better than banks.

[MIKEY DABODEE]

Thanks Oddset, so they can withdraw their money as usual then,

I just find it odd that they have their money paid in there.

But can see it a bit better now

[honeybee13]

I think credit unions are a good thing and a great alternative to loan sharks.

 

Here's a link to wikipedia for a bit of info.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_union

 

My best, HB