Court Order Query....

[erinbrooke]

OK folks this is a VERY long story so I will attempt to summarise as not to bore you...

 

I bought a 3 year old ex-lease van directly from the lease company in March this year. It came with a 3month warranty with the AA.

 

Their offices are on the motorway, so I test drove it with the MD of the company on the day of collection down the motorway and back to his office - no probs so far it seemed.

 

I paid the money and drove it back to my parents where I was staying that week before heading back home to Orkney.

 

The very next day after collection I noticed excessive black smoke whilst driving around the town centre at my parents home town. I contacted the dealer immediately and expressed my concern. He said not to worry and arranged for me to call into an Iveco dealer in Inverness on my way home for them to investigate. The dealer confirmed a faulty injector and sent me back to Orkney with an appointment to return to them 4 weeks alter to have it replaced. Which I did.

 

The black smoke still was evident. The dealer said to just drive back to Orkney and the long drive would clear the smoke.... This I did and when I got back to to Orkney the black smoke was still evident!! I rang the Iveco garage 'again' and the service manager said not to worry and to just drive it for a further week to allow it to clear!! This I did and still the black smoke was evident...

 

I rang him again and suggested that I take it to a local garage to have it checked to save me the travelling down to Inverness.

 

This went on and on and after numerous phone calls and emails, I ended up having an air mass sensor changed, but still black smoke. Anyway I eventually travelled down to Inverness 'again' where it was again confirmed that the injector was faukty. He said go back to Orkney and we will send one up to be fitted. This I did.

 

The day after I returned, the iveco garage in Inverness rang me to say that the company I had purchased the van from had said my warranty was now over and that I would have to foot any repair costs myself. It also transpired that they had NOT changed the injector the first time, bit had merely 're-sealed' it....

 

A week later the turbo on the engine seized, the said injector failed completely and the engine now has an incredible knock on it, it is un driveable and is in another garage with the engine completely stripped down.... This garage seems to think that the engine damage could be caused by the fact that the faulty injector was not changed.

 

I have involved my local Trading Standards but it appears that both the company I bought the van from and the Iveco dealer in Inverness(who are business associates) have closed ranks and I am now being left to foot all costs to get my van back on the road....to date it has cost me approx £1100.

 

There are so many other snippets to this story but am hoping the abbreviated account is satisfactory enough for someone to guide me...

I am now absolutely gutted, the seller will not take my calls and I am now massively out of pocket- have I got any recourse at all???

[dx100uk]

http://www.oft.gov.uk/business-advice/treating-customers-fairly/sogahome/

 

warranty has nothing to do with it

 

use soga

 

also how did you pay?

 

dx

[erinbrooke]

http://www.oft.gov.uk/business-advice/treating-customers-fairly/sogahome/

 

warranty has nothing to do with it

 

use soga

 

also how did you pay?

 

dx

 

I paid with Debit Card.

 

The only thing that worries me is that it was a business to business transaction:???:

 

It's embarrassing - they are even putting the phone down when they hear my name.... How professional is that??

 

Trading Standards seem to think the SOGA is ok to use..

[dx100uk]

if its got visa on it

do a chargeback

 

http://whatconsumer.co.uk/visa-debit-chargeback/

 

or atleast threaten to do it.

 

you have been far too accomodating and i'd even go so far as working out your costs of fuel and time etc

 

its bad enough far north to inver but orky!

 

dx

[erinbrooke]

if its got visa on it

do a chargeback

 

http://whatconsumer.co.uk/visa-debit-chargeback/

 

or atleast threaten to do it.

 

you have been far too accomodating and i'd even go so far as working out your costs of fuel and time etc

 

its bad enough far north to inver but orky!

 

dx

 

Is this chargeback thing totally legal?? Even after 4 and a half months???

[erinbrooke]

The service manager from AM Philip in Conan Bridge has really got my hackles up today when he sniggered at the mechanic trying to sort out HIS mess:mad2:I wish I knew of a legal way to drag their name through the dirt without accusations of slander:mad2: Deep breaths...

[dx100uk]

erm 120 days i think, might be pushing it

 

no harm in trying

you might find the card supplier is partly responsible too

 

dx

[erinbrooke]

erm 120 days i think, might be pushing it

 

no harm in trying

you might find the card supplier is partly responsible too

 

dx

 

TBH dx when I spoke with my lawyer he said with the backing of Trading Standards and a good dossier of info, that a small claims application should prove fruitful... I'm just never that confiedent of the law in situations against big firms like this:-(

[dx100uk]

the troops will be here tomorrow with other ideas

 

but ts/ small claims might be the way to go

 

what about contacting consumerdirect

 

they have a website

 

dx

[erinbrooke]

the troops will be here tomorrow with other ideas

 

but ts/ small claims might be the way to go

 

what about contacting consumerdirect

 

they have a website

 

dx

 

I'll take a look mate, thanks very much...

 

I just cannot believe that I am in this position, the MD that sold me the van seemed so genuine and assured me I would have no problems and the totally clueless and unprofessional approach from AM Phillip in Conan Bridge just compounds matters:mad2:

[scaniaman]

If it's a VISA debit card chargeback should be ok. Some banks try and fob you off from doing chargeback but stick to your guns.

AM PHILLIP? Pity old ECK Phillip is not available as i'm sure if you spoke to him he would have sorted things out for you. A true gent.

Why not try contacting their head office at Muiryfaulds garage, by Forfar. I think that Eck's family still hold the reins here.

Phone 01307 474001---they should be able to direct your enquiry. Hope this helps.

[erinbrooke]

If it's a VISA debit card chargeback should be ok. Some banks try and fob you off from doing chargeback but stick to your guns.

AM PHILLIP? Pity old ECK Phillip is not available as i'm sure if you spoke to him he would have sorted things out for you. A true gent.

Why not try contacting their head office at Muiryfaulds garage, by Forfar. I think that Eck's family still hold the reins here.

Phone 01307 474001---they should be able to direct your enquiry. Hope this helps.

 

Thanks very much Scaniaman, but I think it should be the firm that sold me the van that should be my first port of call...

 

I issued a seven day letter yesterday and received the most long winded contrived reply today, basically challenging me to take them to court and telling me to make sure all my documentation is in order and confirming that they have already passed their file on the matter over to their internal legal team....

 

So it would appear I have a bit of a chancer on my hands!! Hey,ho it's off to court we go....

[dx100uk]

no visa chargeback is your first port of call

dont mess around

they are as much resp as the seller

 

dx

[erinbrooke]

no visa chargeback is your first port of call

dont mess around

they are as much resp as the seller

 

dx

 

You sure that is legal??

 

How do I go about initiating it?

 

Mind I paid for the van on 21 March this year which takes me out of the Visa 120day limit...

[dx100uk]

as i said try.

 

dont forget things are guaranteed via cards these days too.

 

at the end of the day

you've been had

you used the card

they provide certain protection.

 

even if they pull the out of time rule

 

its worthy just to liase with them and enquire whatelse they offer in terms of cover/responsibility

its not hurting them

its hurting the seller after all.

 

you want the van mate, come and get it

else PAY for it to be repaired and you'll get your money when I'M happy i've not been done over!!!

 

dx

[scaniaman]

Erinbrooke, in relation to Phillips i meant in respect of them supposed to fit new injector and then saying it was only tightened down. If an injector is faulty, tightening it down won't make any difference.

Charge back on VISA is entirely legal and i have used this outside the 120day limit. Contact your bank and tell them that you want chargeback. You will have to explain why etc etc. If they don't play ball tell them that's your right to have chargeback and you will report to VISA HQ Europe. I have also had to do this on one ocassion. This even applies to Visa debit cards and the old Electron.

[erinbrooke]

Erinbrooke, in relation to Phillips i meant in respect of them supposed to fit new injector and then saying it was only tightened down. If an injector is faulty, tightening it down won't make any difference.

Charge back on VISA is entirely legal and i have used this outside the 120day limit. Contact your bank and tell them that you want chargeback. You will have to explain why etc etc. If they don't play ball tell them that's your right to have chargeback and you will report to VISA HQ Europe. I have also had to do this on one ocassion. This even applies to Visa debit cards and the old Electron.

 

Many, many thanks Scaniaman:-)

 

How do I approach the bank bearing in mind that I am out of the 120 days? I'm assuming it is a hassle for them and they WILL fob me off with that 120 limit:| When will the dealer find out if I am successful with the chargeback and what can he do?

 

I just don't know what to say to my bank manager if he just says he won't do it.......

[erinbrooke]

Hi,

 

I have advised him that I will be going down the SOGA/court route and he has pretty much said 'bring it on' and tried to discredit my case by saying that the mechanics I have had trying to repair my van recently are not qualified!!!

 

I have had a look at a few templates online and have drafted this one:

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

RE: Faulty goods and the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended)

 

On 21 March 2011 I bought an Iveco Daily 35S12 van registration ********* from you for £5,390.00 including VAT which, following the problem reported to you on 24 March 2011, is now un-driveable..

 

The problems have been injector number two failure which in turn has caused damage to the big end and its bearings of cylinder number two and the crankshaft. The turbocharger has also failed. As you are aware, on the 13 April AM Philip of Conan Bridge, your chosen repairer merely re-seated the said injector instead of replacing it which is deemed ‘bad practice’ by the MVRA. I will be sending the engine to an IAEA independent inspector for a full report.

 

The Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) states that when a consumer buys goods from a trader they must be: as described; of a satisfactory quality; and fit for any purpose made known at the time of sale to the seller.

 

This legislation also states that the seller, not the manufacturer, is legally obliged to sort out a problem if the goods do not meet these requirements.

 

The Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) says: if goods break within the first six months after purchase then there is a presumption the goods were faulty when sold.

 

My goods are not fit for purpose or of satisfactory quality and I wish to claim all repair costs of my goods under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 as amended.

 

Please respond to my complaint within 7 days from receipt of this letter.

 

Yours faithfully,

[your name]

 

Can anyone say if I have worded anything incorrectly or added something I don't need to? Many thanks in anticipation:-)

 

I must get this away in the post tomorrow(recorded)..

[BankFodder]

sounds fine.

 

Send it.

[erinbrooke]

sounds fine.

 

Send it.

 

Thanks Bankfodder, just didn't know if I should be as specific with the fault...

 

Also do I need to say something about what the garage costs have been to me so far? I have had the turbo and the injector replaced as well as a full engine strip down to diagnose the engine failure.

 

Thanks,

 

E

[dx100uk]

yes include and your fuel/time cost driving up and down.

 

dx

[erinbrooke]

yes include and your fuel/time cost driving up and down.

 

dx

 

Cheers DX,

 

The only problem is that I am still waiting for the labour bill from my garage to say how much they want for fitting turbo, injector and stripping the engine down...

 

Is the line 'all repair costs' OK and something I can detail at a later date?

 

I will be able to substantiate everything with invoices etc.

[dx100uk]

all subsequent repair costs

 

i would also insert something within the letter to the fact that:

 

you have already acted over and beyond your requirement to try & mutually rectify the situation, having travelled X times over xxx miles, costing fuel etc etc

and that you will be seeking repayment of those costs also.

 

dx

[dx100uk]

i have also renamed merged the threads please keep to one thread for history/advice sake.

 

dx

[erinbrooke]

Thanks DX and apologies for the confusion of two separate threads..

 

I have made the recommended revisions - let me know what you think: (This fella is a bit full of himself, so I need to make sure it's right first time)

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

RE: Faulty goods and the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended)

 

On 21 March 2011 I bought an Iveco Daily 35S12 van registration ********* from you for £5,390.00 including VAT which, following the problem reported to you on 24 March 2011, is now un-driveable..

 

The problems have been injector number two failure which in turn has caused damage to the big end and its bearings of cylinder number two and the crankshaft. The turbocharger has also failed. As you are aware, on the 13 April AM Philip of Conan Bridge, your chosen repairer merely re-seated the said injector instead of replacing it which is deemed ‘bad practice’ by the MVRA. I will be sending the engine to an IAEA independent inspector for a full report.

 

I have already acted over and above my requirement in travelling down to AM Philip in an attempt to mutually rectify this problem.

 

The Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) states that when a consumer buys goods from a trader they must be: as described; of a satisfactory quality; and fit for any purpose made known at the time of sale to the seller.

 

This legislation also states that the seller, not the manufacturer, is legally obliged to sort out a problem if the goods do not meet these requirements.

 

The Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) says: if goods break within the first six months after purchase then there is a presumption the goods were faulty when sold.

 

My goods are not fit for purpose or of satisfactory quality and I wish to claim all subsequent repair of my goods under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 as amended. I will also seek to recover travel and inconvenience costs in relation to the works undertaken by AM Philip in Conan Bridge.

 

Please respond to my complaint within 7 days from receipt of this letter.

 

Yours faithfully,

[your name]