rail machine ate ticket

[herbertg]

Hi,

Daughter bought a return rail ticket from huddersfield to york. On the return journey the following day, she put her ticket through the machine to access the platform, the ticket machine ate her ticket. She caught the train and an inspector asked her for her ticket. She expalined what had happened ,she didnt have any more money ,as she had already paid for her return ticket. He kept her at the back of the train and had her removed in Leeds.

She has now recived a letter saying that unless she pays £83. she will go to court. She has never been in any sort of trouble and is scared to death. Should we pay the fine for her or do you think we should fight it. Thanks

[MrGates]

Hi,

Daughter bought a return rail ticket from huddersfield to york. On the return journey the following day, she put her ticket through the machine to access the platform, the ticket machine ate her ticket. She caught the train and an inspector asked her for her ticket. She expalined what had happened ,she didnt have any more money ,as she had already paid for her return ticket. He kept her at the back of the train and had her removed in Leeds.

She has now recived a letter saying that unless she pays £83. she will go to court. She has never been in any sort of trouble and is scared to death. Should we pay the fine for her or do you think we should fight it. Thanks

 

If you are relating to ticket barriers they cannot eat tickets, if it was a failure the gate would not have opened to allow access, so i have to ask how did she enter the platform, was she with a friend?

 

how old is your daughter, as if she is an adult it will be best she tries to resolve the issue with the train operator herself.

[RPI]

It is totally impossible for the gates to eat the ticket when entering the station onto the platforms as there are only ticket bins on the platform side of the gates, also, when a ticket is placed into the gate then it will not open until the ticket has been removed. Also, which station did this happen at as there are no gates at York.

[Old-CodJA]

Yes, RPI and Mr Gates are spot-on.

 

Something in the original story doesn't make sense.

 

Perhaps you have misunderstood what your daughter has told you?

[herbertg]

yes I have misunderstood. she put her money in the ticket machine but did not receive a ticket, the train station was york. She had a receipt for the payment for the ticket. she showed this to the inspector and told him that the machine had ate her ticket.

[Old-CodJA]

yes I have misunderstood. she put her money in the ticket machine but did not receive a ticket, the train station was york. She had a receipt for the payment for the ticket. she showed this to the inspector and told him that the machine had ate her ticket.

 

I'm afraid I again have a bit of difficulty here, the ticket is issued first and the receipt follows.

 

I am not sure that we can give any meaningful help in this case.

 

York is a multi operating user station, which rail company is involved in this incident please?

[herbertg]

She says that a receipt was issued, but no ticket,the company is first transpennine ex[press. Thank you

[Old-CodJA]

She says that a receipt was issued, but no ticket,the company is first transpennine ex[press. Thank you

 

A receipt is not valid for travel and that condition is printed on it.

 

This is to prevent the commonly attempted 'fiddle' whereby one traveller uses a ticket and a second uses the receipt, claiming to have 'lost' their ticket.

 

Two more questions please:

 

Was your daughter travelling alone?

 

How was the ticket paid for?

[herbertg]

yes she was alone, she paid on a debit card .

[MrGates]

The receipt is always last to be printed on ticket vending machines TVM, may it have been a receipt from previous useage from another customer and a fault with the machine?

[MrGates]

If paid for on debit card check statements and see whether a transaction took place. Did they confiscate the receipt, if so can your daughter remember the receipt value?

[herbertg]

it may have been a receipt from a previous person, it may have been a faulty machine. there will be a record of the transaction on her statement. When we check the statement, will this help her in not having to find£83.60 to pay to First Great Western Trains. Thank you

[Old-CodJA]

The receipt is always last to be printed on ticket vending machines TVM, may it have been a receipt from previous useage from another customer and a fault with the machine?

 

Yes, I had commented that the receipt is always printed last and that's why I asked how the ticket was paid for.

 

If it was paid by card, the purchase can be checked from the details printed on the receipt itself.

 

Did the member of staff making out the report retain the receipt?

[MrGates]

Not in this instance no. Your daughter failed to present a valid ticket, byelaw 18., unfortunately these are strict liability offences and no intent needs to be shown.

 

What offence are FGW pursuing? FGW handle transpennine cases in house. Also again how old is your daughter and did the letter contain a summary of facts?

Edited June 26, 2012 by MrGates

[MrGates]

Yes, I had commented that the receipt is always printed last and that's why I asked how the ticket was paid for.

 

If it was paid by card, the purchase can be checked from the details printed on the receipt itself.

 

Did the member of staff making out the report retain the receipt?

 

It would appear that using my mobile has meant i have commented after yourself.

[herbertg]

FGW . It has been reported that you travelled from york to huddersfiled without a valid ticket.I have reviewed your case and am prepared to offer a settlement of this matter upon payment of £83.60.

THis is an offence in contrary to section5(3)a of the regulation of railway acts. My daughter is 19 , the letter doesnt say anything about a summary of facts

[Old-CodJA]

it may have been a receipt from a previous person, it may have been a faulty machine. there will be a record of the transaction on her statement. When we check the statement, will this help her in not having to find£83.60 to pay to First Great Western Trains. Thank you

 

All receipts are timed and the issuing location recorded along with the card payment details.

 

Unless your daughter can show conclusively that she paid the fare just before travelling it is unlikely that the TOC will change their view. Factually, in compliance with National Railway Byelaw 18.2, there is a strict liability offence of failing to show a valid ticket.

 

My gut feeling is that the TOC are pretty confident they can make a charge stick, but appear to have given an opportunity to deal with this as an administrative penalty.

 

Your daughter has to deal with it herself if she is an adult, but if there is clear evidence that she paid just before travelling, they may possibly re-assess the decision.

[Old-CodJA]

It would appear that using my mobile has meant i have commented after yourself.

 

Sorry Mr Gates, my comment wasn't meant to be critical, it was just my way of explaining why the next question was important

[MrGates]

I would suggest you speak with your daughter and ask her to give a full account of the incident as the story she has given has changed twice. 1st post about barriers and then 2nd post relate to putting money in the machine.

 

If as Old-CodJA has pointed out you can prove a transaction occurred then a sertlement may be agreed BUT if it proceeds then they have a solid case on this incident.

[Old-CodJA]

FGW . It has been reported that you travelled from york to huddersfiled without a valid ticket.I have reviewed your case and am prepared to offer a settlement of this matter upon payment of £83.60.

THis is an offence in contrary to section5(3)a of the regulation of railway acts. My daughter is 19 , the letter doesnt say anything about a summary of facts

 

This is a more serious charge. It suggests that they are convinced that your daughter intended to avoid payment and they believe that they have sufficient evidence to secure a conviction.

 

As your daughter is over 18 she will need to respond herself unless she engages a lawyer to act on her behalf. Mr Gates is correct, her continually evolving story isn't helping in my opinion.

 

Because the penalty on conviction of that charge is so high, it might be a good idea to accept the opportunity that has been given, but if she does not believe that she is guilty of an offence, she may choose to let it proceed to a Court hearing and have the evidence tested.

[RPI]

It is worth checking to see if the transaction actually took place, the TVM's at York are operated by East Coast trains which is what will appear on the bank statement.

[colony]

Actually I saw a machine eat someone's ticket yesterday. The staff had to pick it out with their fingers.

[Nystagmite]

I've only know some barriers to eat tickets on the exit barrier.

[Old-CodJA]

I've only know some barriers to eat tickets on the exit barrier.

 

Exactly, and in very simple terms that's because on the inward track there is only a mag-stripe reader that passes the ticket back to the traveller, but on the exit side there is a collection mechanism that is a bit more complicated. After the ticket coding has been read the equipment has to 'decide' whether to return the ticket to the traveller, or route it to the collection bin.

 

Sometimes, and especially if the ticket is bent or a bit dog-eared it will jam.