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Parking Ticket - contravention of Bylaw?


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A ticket was placed on my car when parked in Malvern. Although it looks like a Parking Charge Notice which I'd ignore, it does talk about contravention of Byelaw 9 of the Malvern Hills Conservators. Shall I be safe to ignore this? I received a further letter requesting payment in 14 days, together with an invoice attached to it - which i have attached here.

So am I safe to continue ignoring this one?MHC_invoice1.jpg

MHC_parkingticket1.jpg

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if it doesnt say exactly

PENALTY CHARGE NOTICE

 

then it can safely be ignored.

 

using a byelaw [like the railway PPC]

 

is just the lastest trick to spoof you into playing.

 

 

only the LANDOWNER can enforce a supposed bylaw not a PPC

 

you need to convert images to PDF

 

before attaching them

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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A ticket was placed on my car when parked in Malvern. Although it looks like a Parking Charge Notice which I'd ignore, it does talk about contravention of Byelaw 9 of the Malvern Hills Conservators. Shall I be safe to ignore this? I received a further letter requesting payment in 14 days, together with an invoice attached to it - which i have attached here.

So am I safe to continue ignoring this one?[ATTACH=CONFIG]36351[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]36352[/ATTACH]

 

Looks like a PPC invoice and can safely be ignored up in the absence of signed and stamped court papers.

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That was my thought too, even the yellow and black checked envelope was marked up "Parking Charge Notice" and the PPC's little ticket does say "As driver of this vehicle you are liable to pay......" I'm just the registered keeper!

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Hmmm not seen one of these before, who does it say payment is to be made to?

 

http://www.malvernhills.org.uk/content/documents/ACT1995.pdf

 

It does seem they have some byelaws.

 

1. Where the driver of a vehicle is alleged to be guilty of an offence against any byelaw made by the

Conservators which relates to the driving or parking of vehicles on the Malvern Hills

a. the person keeping the vehicle shall give such information as to the identity of the driver as

he may be required in writing by or on behalf of the Conservators to give; and

b. any other person shall, if required as mentioned in paragraph (a) above, give any information

which it is in his power to give and which may lead to the identification of the driver.

2. A person who fails to comply with the requirements of subsection (1) (a) above shall be guilty of an

offence unless he shows to the satisfaction of the court that he did not know, and could not with

reasonable diligence have ascertained, who was the driver of the vehicle; and a person who fails to

comply with the requirements of subsection (1) (b) above shall be guilty of an offence.

3. A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not

exceeding level 2 on the standard scale.

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Ooo err, I would be careful with this one! New one on me!

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

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to me that looks and sounds oh so PPC speil.

 

have to do some diggng guys

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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urm.......

 

on their website they say:

 

Penalties

 

  • Standard charge of £40.00 (£20.00 if paid within 7 days) for failure to purchase and display a valid ticket.
  • An external agency settles the fines and we regret we cannot enter into discussions on individual cases.

if this is a ppc they p'haps should not be using the word FINE?

 

external agengy use too smells, if it WERE not PPC, then surely it would be the court that manages it?

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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This could be an ECN...

http://www.malvernhills.gov.uk/cms/default.aspx

 

http://swict.malvernhills.gov.uk/parkingappeals/mhdc_search.jsp

 

Need to see the ticket properly, but I can clearly make out the word, "OFFENCE" !!!

 

Will be a day at Maggies if it is and it isn't paid or appealed!!

If my post was helpful don't forget to click the star!

Advice is offered freely, without liability and without prejudice.

If in any doubt professional legal advice should be sought.

 

I do not profess to be in any way legally trained, I am a big

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yes i was looking at that earlier DMD

 

can you scan up your 'ticket' again and follow this:

 

 

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets - as a picture[jpg] file

don't forget you can use a mobile phone or a digital camera too!!

or

convert existing PC files to PDF [office has an installable print to PDF option]

.

'

BUT......

ENSURE: remove all pers info inc barcodes etc using paint program

but leave all figures and dates.

.

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites

it would be better to upload a multipage pdf if

you have many images too rather than many single pdfs

.

or if you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

or use word and save as pdf

.

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

.

.

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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1. Where the driver of a vehicle is alleged to be guilty of an offence against any byelaw made by the

Conservators which relates to the driving or parking of vehicles on the Malvern Hills

a. the person keeping the vehicle shall give such information as to the identity of the driver as

he may be required in writing by or on behalf of the Conservators to give; and

b. any other person shall, if required as mentioned in paragraph (a) above, give any information

which it is in his power to give and which may lead to the identification of the driver.

2. A person who fails to comply with the requirements of subsection (1) (a) above shall be guilty of an

offence unless he shows to the satisfaction of the court that he did not know, and could not with

reasonable diligence have ascertained, who was the driver of the vehicle; and a person who fails to

comply with the requirements of subsection (1) (b) above shall be guilty of an offence.

3. A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not

exceeding level 2 on the standard scale.

That is certainly genuine - http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/1995/3/section/14/enacted

 

And the MHC do have the power to create bye-laws, breach of whihc would be punishable by a fine of up to level 2 on the standard scale (that's £500 in new money).

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/1995/3/section/13/enacted

 

And the bye-laws seem to have this to say about parking

 

Where, by notice conspicuously exhibited on or near thereto the Conservators have set apart any place on the Hills as a parking place for vehicles or for vehicles of a specified class, no unauthorised person shall:-

 

  • leave in the parking place any vehicle unless it is of a class specified;
  • leave in the parking place any vehicle between the hours of 11 p.m. and 6 a.m.
  • leave on the parking place any vehicle unless:-

 

  1. he has purchased a ticket from an authorised officer or from a parking meter provided by the Conservators for an amount appropriate to his vehicle; and
  2. the aforesaid ticket is displayed in a conspicuous position in or on the vehicle in respect of which it is issued.

For the purpose of this byelaw and Byelaw 8 "vehicle" shall include those vehicles and machines referred to in Byelaw 8.(a)

IOW it seems that the MHC do have the power to enforce their car parking restrictions through the criminal courts. Whether they actually do or whether they restrict themselves to sending threatening letters like certain railway car park operators I have no idea, but speaking personally, for the sake of £20 I wouldn't be inclined to find out.
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yes there is very little info on their MO on the net.

 

no 'past' theads anywhere really.

 

 

though i must agree that i'd pay £20! for the sake of any further issues.

 

i like you see it as different to the railway byelaw 'iffy' tactics those PPC pull.

 

though if a railway co issued a parking ticket themselves, i think you are o dodgy ground if you dont pay.

 

the only 'bit' that still has me 'puzzled' is the 'employ an external agengy ' bit...

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have a letter from them. This relates to PENALTY NOTICE No. XXXXXX and Invoice No. XXXXXX

If I do not pay in 7 days the matter will be passed to their solicitors. Now to me this sounds like the non-payment of an invoice.

I have rescanned and attached the 3 documents I have got so far

 

.MHCletter1.PDF

 

MHCParkingticket1.PDF

 

MHCInvoice1.PDF

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Diskmandave this isnt Malvern Hills District Council, it is Malvern Hills Conservators. Putting the details of the ticket into MHDC website shows it as being an unrecognised ticket number.

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I would say this is a genuine ticket which is lacking the Official looks of a PCN issued by Local Councils in printed form from hand held units.

 

Here is the legislation: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/1995/3/enacted/data.pdf

 

The procedure for enforcing would be the same as a ticket issued by the Police (Magistrates Court).

Edited by dw190

PUTTING IT IN WRITING & KEEPING COPIES IS A MUST FOR SUCCESS

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the words invoice and penalty dont sit well together to me.

 

and why a solicitor as the next move

 

all legit PENALTY CHARGE NOTICES

 

go direct to court, not via a solicitor.

 

urm.........

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites
the words invoice and penalty dont sit well together to me.

 

and why a solicitor as the next move

 

all legit PENALTY CHARGE NOTICES

 

go direct to court, not via a solicitor.

 

urm.........

 

 

dx

 

On the ticket it says "use charge" and is probably more than the normal charge so its a penalty. The Conservators have legislation in their favour which is similar to that of a police ticket for disclosure of the driver by any person.

 

 

 





        1.  
           
        2. Where the driver of a vehicle is alleged to be

          guilty of an offence against any byelawmade by the Conservators which relates to

          the driving or parking of vehicles on theMalvern Hills—



            1.  
               
              the person keeping the vehicle shall give such information as to the identity
              ofthe driver as he may be required in writing by or on behalf of the
              Conservatorsto give; and




            2.  
               
              any other person shall, if required as mentioned in paragraph (a) above,
              giveany information which it is in his power to give and which may lead to
              theidentification of the driver.




            3.  
               
              A person who fails to comply with the requirements of subsection (1)(a) above
              shallbe guilty of an offence unless he shows to the satisfaction of the court
              that he did notknow, and could not with reasonable diligence have ascertained,
              who was the driver ofthe vehicle; and a person who fails to comply with the
              requirements of subsection (1)(b) above shall be guilty of an offence.




             

             

             

             

             

            A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on summary

            convictionto a fine not exceeding level 2 on the standard scale.

            This is quite similar to the RTA s172

            I have only ever paid one ticket for parking and that was issued by the police for obstructing the pavement. Only issued because some other fool parked across a fire exit and the property owner complained so all that were parked got booked.

            Personally I would pay because if they do enforce through the Magistrates the solicitor mentioned is possibly instructed to act instead of the usual CPS.

        Edited by dw190

        PUTTING IT IN WRITING & KEEPING COPIES IS A MUST FOR SUCCESS

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        A prosecution under by-laws would go through a solicitor. So would an (unlikely) civil claim. So the solicitor may be someone like Graham White, or it may be someone who actually does handle prosecutions.

         

        Basically you have two options

        (1) Pay up for the sake of a quiet life.

        (2) Call their bluff, carry on ignoring and hope they don't go to the magistrates court, where you could be looking at hefty fine and costs.

         

        The fact that they don't seem to have issued you with a requirement to identify the driver under the by-laws may be an indication that they're going down the PPC route and are unlikely to prosecute. But who knows - that might be what arrives next. Having no experience of their MO I can't really say which is best.

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        It is quite funny when you read in the order received.

         

        Use charge Possibly subject to VAT

        Invoice/Penalty Notice It was a Use charge originally, now a Penalty (not subject to VAT)

         

         

        As they are VAT registered, it really does need clarifying if its a charge for services or a Penalty.

         

        Think I'll send them an email asking the question.

        Edited by dw190

        PUTTING IT IN WRITING & KEEPING COPIES IS A MUST FOR SUCCESS

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        ys its mighty confusing

         

        dx

        please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

        DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

        NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

        and they

        are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

        If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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        Share on other sites
        • 1 month later...
        well, its been over a month since the last letter was sent to me.

         

        I sent them an email asking them to clarify if it was a charge or a penalty. The response was " I've only been doing this for a month so I have asked our solicitors.

        PUTTING IT IN WRITING & KEEPING COPIES IS A MUST FOR SUCCESS

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