Welcome finance ( oh no not again)

[angela p]

Hi,

been reading all your advice to people about welcome finance and yes you"ve guessed it, we are in the same boat!

I would really appreciate a little of your time if you can spare it.

Here goes.

 

In 2007 my son took out an unsecured personal loan for £2000.

 

got into difficulties and after trying to resolve,

he was persuaded to re-write the loan to the tune of over £5000,

this extra £3000 was made up of charges, eg, interest, letters, phone calls etc, he opted out of the ppi.

This was in Jan 2009.

 

Because of the high interest he could"nt get on top of it so we stepped in and asked for a settlement figure,

 

we agreed on £2,800,( they actually wanted over £6000!).

I paid this over the phone with my debit card,

i know now that was TOTALLY the wrong thing to do.

I was told account now closed and a letter would be arriving to say so.

 

Of course this never arrived after many phone calls.

 

We thought that was that but

 

after a whole years silence we were told account still open and accruing interest to the tune of almost £ 10.000!

 

Welcome threw out our complaint

 

went to FOS who after 6 months told us we had to pay.

We refused to accept this as so many discrepencies ( i have all the phone recordings from welcome that have been well and truly doctored)

 

The stage we"re at now is Atlas debt recovery have agreed on a settlement of £2 250,

which ages ago we said we would pay just to get them off our backs

but now i am reluctant as we have actually paid welcome over £4800 already,

 

am i to late to do anything about it?

 

Is it best to go down the ppi route (he paid a small amount on original loan)

Also all those charges!!?

 

We are getting presserised to pay Atlas this money,

should we just pay it and try to claim back later?

 

Any suggestions please anybody??

[angela p]

Hi there , have posted thread already but not sure in right place ( new to this). Basically loan taken out for£2000 in 2007.

 

My son got into difficulties paying it and they persuaded him to re-write. Giving him a new loan of over £5000, the extra£3000 were all charges and interest.

 

Such high interest he couldn't get on top of it so I stepped in and asked for a settlement figure, we mutually agreed on £2800 which I ( stupidly paid over the phone) .

 

Was told loan now cleared, account closed, woopee. No letter arrived as promised and a year went by then the calls started. The loan was still running and accruing interest to the tune of almost £10.000!

 

The office which we had dealt with had closed and no information was available, although they said the £2800 was recorded as a payment off the loan, yeah right.

 

Have since got all phone recordings from welcome and they have been well and truly doctored.. Welcome threw out our complaint so we went to fos, who after 6 months said we had to pay a short settlement but we disagreed due to so many discrepenciesf.

 

After an age with no correspondence from welcome, atlas debt recovery called to offer the short settlement of £2250 or to go down the ppi route.

 

So tempting just to pay to get rid of them but we've paid around £4800 already. We are getting hassled to pay or things get serious with litigation etc. Don't think much ppi to claim as opted out on second loan. HELP!!

Edited June 29, 2012 by citizenB
spacing for easier reading

[lexis200]

Hi angela

 

I think you need to get a Subject Access Request out to them immediately. This will require them to send all details relating to the account. This one is geared toward debt collection so is what you need.http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?417-A-Subject-Access-Request-for

 

You need to send the letter along with £10 - preferably get someone else to write a cheque for you so that you don't have to sign it, or use a PO. Do not just sign the letter, use a digital signature or your signature but on a background that ensures it cannot be lifted. Send by Recorded delivery, or if you can afford it Special (preferable as the tracking is usually more reliable).

 

It also wouldn't hurt to send a CCA request to them - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?414-CCA-request-letter

Again, don't sign.

 

Do not under any circumstances accept settlement offers from Debt Collection agencies. Almost invariably they will word it so that the debt is settled with them, but they'll neglect to mention that they will sell the remainder of the debt onto the next chancer. Equally, PPI does not need a claims company to sort out, you can do that yourself with a standardised form that

 

Do not talk to them over the phone. As you've discovered, they lie through their teeth. Send a letter (again recorded delivery at the least) informing them that you will only contact them via letter and will not talk about financial matters over the phone. As long as you give them a viable alternative to phoning they will have to follow your request. They will still try and phone, just refuse to go through security and reiterate to them that you have written requesting all contact to be in writing.

 

If you have the funds a Truecall machine is a godsend - it's about £100 but you can plug anyone's number into it and it will stop them getting through to you. Failing that, and if you must talk to them on the phone, buy a cheap recorder (we had one from Argos for about £25 if memory serves) that you can record calls with.

 

If they're sending you letters threatening legal action, check the wording. Are they saying things like 'we may' 'if we decide' 'we could' or is it 'we will'? If it's anything like the former, it's less likely that they are serious and more likely they are just trying to rattle you.

 

Above all, try not to worry too much. I know that seems a ridiculous thing to say, but remember, it's not like they can chuck you in prison for having debt. They can't send a bailiff round unless they have already taken you to court, had a payment plan agreed by the court and had you fail to pay it. They can't force you to pay an indeterminate amount of money for a loan that they have not kept you up to date with (particularly if they have not contacted you for a year!) How would they justify to a court that you were apparently building up this huge debt without paying, and yet they let you get on with it and didn't try to approach you for 12 months?

 

I'll flag this up so that it gets moved to the right section for you, but please in the meantime take a breath and don't let them panic you.

 

Lexis x

[angela p]

Hi Lexis,

thanks so much for your reply,

it was extremely helpful and full of useful imfo.

 

I requested an SAR months ago, sent my £10 off and received back ONE page,

which was a very recent statement with about 4 transactions on it.

 

Also sent off another £10 for phone recordings which took an age to arrive and as i said,

relevant conversations were missing or completeley false.

 

Its all been a nightmare really but glad to talk to like minded people who are in the same boat.

 

I will go through the motions again now as a bit more savvy thanks to you,

so glad i found this site.

 

Will keep you imformed but dont hold your breath!

 

thanks again, angela x

[lexis200]

Hi angela:)

 

Rather than start again with an SAR, have you written a formal complaint regarding the lack of content? If not, I'd get one off asap giving them 7 working days to comply fully or you will be trotting off to the Information Commissioners Office. If they haven't supplied anything on the 7th day (which I'd bet they won't), you can make a complaint online to the ICO and they may help you. It takes an absolute age for them to do anything, but if Welcome do go down the route of court (going from my own personal experience of the creditors/dca's I've had this would be highly unlikely) it would show that you have been trying to find out what has happened.

 

They were also a bit cheeky in taking another tenner for the phone recordings - that should all come under the remit of the SAR!

 

I have to say I've tried the ICO on a few occasions and found their help less than stellar, but it does show you don't believe the information given is correct and are trying to rectify a situation THEY have caused. It all helps.

 

I think I would also be inclined to write to Welcome and put the account into dispute with them. I would have thought that having a debt jump up so much with no prior warnings, and no information from them as to how it managed to climb so high (especially when you had been told it was cleared) would be a very good reason to do this. There are two letters in the library regarding disputes. They are more for if they've not supplied you with your agreement, but I'm sure you could tweak or make your own.http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?609-Can-t-find-the-letter-you-want-Look-here

 

You mentioned in your original post that they got your son to 'rewrite' for another loan. Do you mean he signed another agreement? Have you got copies of any agreements? I don't know much about Welcome tbh, but possibly they are like numerous other companies who don't get their ducks in a row with contracts. It's worth a look. If you don't have copies, send off the CCA request letter (or did you do this as well as the SAR?).

 

Also, I've just read your PPI bit. If you have any statements from then showing it it's definitely worth a go. Regardless of whether they changed the account at a later date he will still have 5 years of PPI accumulated, and assuming he meets the criteria of mis-selling that may be a nice little lump. Ditto the charges added to the second loan (you really need that SAR to find out how they've managed to find 3K of charges and interest on a 2K loan!).

 

Just one other thought - have you any proof that they've doctored phone calls? Notes you made at the time, recordings of your own etc? I've never come across this before in my own situation (they've lied while I've recorded them, but not gone so far as to send me falsified recordings etc!), but if you have any proof at all I would imagine they could be in a whole world of trouble.

 

Keep on keeping on, you'll get there in the end

[angela p]

Good morning and many thanks for taking the time to write.

 

most of the comunication has been by phone and no unfortunatley i havent recorded the conversations.

 

Needless to say now i shall only comunicate by letter or if i really have to speak to someone WILL record it.

I suppose we"ve been a bit naive in thinking someone could be so dishonest, how wrong we were!

 

In answer to your question, yes my son signed another agreement,

he was getting hassled so much at work and at home he just wanted rid so just went along with it, silly boy!

 

We do have copies of the agreements and on the second loan ( on the incoming/outgoing attachment, cant think of the official name)

they left him with 43p per month to live on after all his outgoings!

 

We have been through all of this with Welcome and then the FOS , stating it was a miss sold loan

but they are having none of it, saying he had the money so has to pay it back.

 

But he actually only had £2000 originally!

 

The letter stating that he owed nearly £ 10,000 came after Welcome had thrown out our complaint and that the existing loan (WHAT existing loan?!) would run until 2015

and that the final amount paid would be almost £10,000.

 

The thing we hear time and time again, by all parties concerned is that "you have no written proof of settling the loan"

which is true but why else would we have paid £2800 in one lump sum?

 

The urgency to pay it was my son was going traveling and we wanted the debt cleared, wish we hadnt bothered.

 

As for having proof that the phone recordings have been doctored,

obviously i made notes at the time but again they are deemed useless.

 

The recording of the conversation when we settled the loan states that we wanted to make a substantial one off payment TOWARDS the loan,

what utter rubbish, what sane person does that unless you"ve won the lottery!

 

Luckily we do have our own bank statements stating what we have paid off the loan

but no Welcome statements prior to this as my son binned them them thinking it was all over

but the few statements we do have show £100 per month captilization, another word for interest apparently.

 

Then all the charges for letters, phone calls, visits etc and the list goes on.

 

Also it was`nt an instant decision regarding a settlement,

 

Welcome took about a week to agree which kind it of makes it worse and also my son has repaid every penny to me.

 

I think the next step is to get off some more letters and thanks to you i feel in a slightly stronger position, to hell with them all!

 

many thanks again, will keep you posted, Angela X ps if you think of anything else i can hit them with please let me know!

Edited June 29, 2012 by citizenB
spacing for easier reading

[lexis200]

Wow, that all sounds massively fishy!

 

The one thing that really jumps out at me is the 43p to live on - that's just unbelievable and they should be brought to task over that.

 

I'm gong to try and get you more help with this as I think you need someone to give you a complete rundown of what you can/should be doing to get this sorted. I can give advice based on my own experiences but obviously I'm not an expert;)

[citizenB]

Hello, responding to S.O.S. sent out by lexis

 

I dont think that I will be able to help much, however, I think I know a few people who will be able to and I will direct them to your thread.

 

First of all, it does not seem to me as though Welcome have fully complied with your Subject Access Request and you need to sort that one out.

 

You should have received at the very least statements covering both the new and old loan, a detailed communication log - which is a kind of computerised diary which shows all the actions taken on your account.

 

I suggest you send a "failed SAR" letter, which you will find in the CAG library - linked at the top of each screen.

 

The data should go back at least as long as 6 years, if not longer.

 

If they refuse to provide this, then you can either make a complaint to the Information Commissioner or indeed issue a claim against them to force them to comply.

[lexis200]

Thanks CB xx

[citizenB]

[angela p]

Hi many thanks for all your help with this, will keep plowing on X

[angela p]

Hi many thanks for your message. Am currently in process of sending letters demanding SAR, so fingers crossed!

[steven4064]

Hi angela

 

I am in the process of sorting a Welcome claim out for someone else. Doing rather well, but I can't post details ATM. One day!

 

Do you have the original and refinanced loan agreements? If you do, could you scan them, blot out the personal details (name, address) and post them here.

 

From my experience, there is lots that can be done. Don't pay them anything. If you get letters from a debt collection agency, write back and say that the account is in dispute and suggest they send the account back to Welcome. Don't speak to them on the phone. As you have already found out, there verbal agreement is not worth the paper it's (not) written on.

[angela p]

Hi there,

many thanks for your message. We do not have the original copies unfortunatley, only copies received from welcome which are very faint and hardly legible to be honest but i can just about pick out the important bits! I think the scanned version will be totally unreadable! Will do what you suggest tho and write to the DCA as well as Welcome. Will keep all you good people posted! Angela X

[steven4064]

Before you write, can you tell me if there was any PPI and/or other insurances on the original agreement and if they were carried through to the second

 

Also can you give me all the figures - loan amount, cost of credit, APR off the 2 agreements.

 

If there are any insurance or PPI elements on the first agreement, there will be loads you can claim back since Welcome will probably have been completely dishonest about what was put on the agreements

[angela p]

Hi there , sent letter off before i read your reply! However will look out all the paperwork and send the details if i have them, Many thanks , Angela