To pay or not to pay a PCN- the scary advice I got

[dontwannaberippedoff]

Like many others I have received a Parking Charge Notice(from Parking Eye) and consider the amount to be unfair - £60 if I pay now, or £90 if I don't pay by 2nd July 2012.

 

As the registered keeper of the vehicle which was parked at a motorway service station my name and address was traced via the DVLA

when the cameras photgraphed the car entering and leaving the car park.

 

I used this car park on occasion in the past as a convenient meeting point to share travel costs to a further destination and had absolutely no idea that things had changed.

 

Had the signage been noticed and read the £8 parking fee for parking longer than the free 2 hours allowed would have been happily paid.

 

Having read many threads on here and other forums, watched the youtube Watchdog clips etc,

i had come to the conclusion that I would grit my teeth and ignore the PCN and the expected deluge of threatening letters etc that would ensue.

 

However, I then got the following advice from a friend:

 

It wasn't Parking Eye but it was another such company and I knew that I had broken their posted rules for the car park I had used;

I ignored the ticket which was stuck to my car

but when the letters were followed by the County Court summons, I paid up to avoid having a CCJ issued against me

 

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the way that private parking companies operate,

I can tell you that if it goes to court and you ignore it:

their fees get added to your debt and a CCJ will make it difficult for you to get credit.

 

I'm working on three County Court cases against non-paying customers right now:

one summons issued yesterday and two CCJ's issued after the defendants ignored their respective summonses last month.

 

If the latter two haven't paid by the end of next week, I will be asking the court to appoint a bailiff to seize goods to the value of my claim.

 

If you intend to dispute the penalty charge you should make contact with them (registered letters etc.)

and demand the cancellation of the ticket using what you've learnt online.

 

But if you do nothing and it goes through due process in the courts, you'll have no defence and no choice if a CCJ gets issued.

 

We encounter these parking tickets with our fleet drivers from time to time

and the proof of driver is often solved by photographic evidence provided by the parking company

(look out for cameras on the entrance to motorway service areas).

 

With the company as the registered keeper of the vehicles,

we always settle promptly to avoid wasting time and money unless we have a stout defence;

but parking fines are the driver's responsibility so we take it out of their wages!

 

Now I am at a loss as to what to do for the best. Having been made redundant recently I can ill afford the extortionate amount, but the above advice has realy scared me-can anyone comment on the above please?

[andydd]

If you genuinelly did not see the sign then the principles in Vine v Waltham Forest should apply...

 

Have a read of the Vine v Waltham Forest case here > http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2000/106.html and Wiki here > http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vine_v_London_Borough_of_Waltham_Forest

 

The law in this area is a mess though and its well known that county court decisions are all over the place.

 

Andy

[Ell-enn]

It would be helpful to know which other company it is who are allegedly taking people to court for payment of a speculative invoice. I understood that only the landowner can take the driver to court not the parking company who operate on the land.

[Michael Browne]

I can't be bothered to rip your 'friend's' advice to shreds, but I can tell you I have ignored any parking tickets from Parking Eye and have never received a court claim from them.

 

If you want to send them som eof your hard earned money, then more mug you.

[BankFodder]

You will receive lots of advice here simply to ignore. Most of the threads in this forum will advise you to do that.

 

For myself, I see no disadvantage in replying to them and telling them that you deny that any debt exists and that they should take you to court if they want and you will defend it there. Don't give them any further reason and no further information and wait for the court claim - in the unlikely even that it comes.

 

If you do lose, the fees will be minimal. It is a small claim and you should read up and understand what that means in terms of costs.

The chances are that you will win - the chances are that they will not issue the claim.

 

If you absolutely ignore everything then this might tempt them to issue a claim on the basis that you will probably ignore that too and they will get a judgment in default.

 

My preference is to make them realise that they will have a fight on their hands and then let them do what they want.

You can be sure that their business model assumes that most people will just pay up.

If they imagined that most people would fight, they would have to take a serious court action to establish a precedent - or else go out of business.

 

I suggest that you take photos of the parking area, the signage and make a full statement of everything that has happened, for your records in case it is needed later.

 

The parking fees are excessive. They do not reflect actual losses and there probably isn't a contract in place anyway.

[BankFodder]

Follow the link in parking eye to see what else has been writen about them

[Sidewinder]

Sounds very much as though your friend paid up unnecessarily! A properly defended claim has virtually no chance of success in court and the PPC who issued a claim against your friend would most likely have withdrawn the claim in the face of a defence.

 

What a PPC claims is due under contract is a world away from your friend's claim against non-paying customers. In those cases, one presumes that the customer has received goods but has not paid for them. With a PPC, they are claiming that you have breached a contract, but there the similarity ends, for their claim must be limited only to actual losses incurred, rather than a fixed amount which bears no relation to anything but a figure plucked out of the air. If their claim is for £60 or £90, how precisely would that have been calculated as a genuine pre-estimate of loss? It isn't, and is therefore a penalty designed purely to intimidate and deter the driver.

 

In your case, where £8 should have been the charge for a stay of longer than 24 hours, then £8 is the maximum loss that the car park owners have sustained.

[andydd]

I second Bankfodder's views, its worth replying to prove that you exist, are knowledage and that you will at least defend any court action (meaning they wont get default judgment) this would mean that win or lose it would be unprofitable for them to pursue legal action.

 

I may be tempted to add you were unaware of any signage and quote Vine v WF, but may be better to just put a simple denial.

 

Andy

[dontwannaberippedoff]

That is interesting advice which conflicts with some of the other advice posted on threads - ie that I should not enter into any correspondence with them. I notice that the PCN states that the penalty is payable by the driver of the car, though they have not stated who that is nor asked for that information - which i realise I am not obliged to give them if they do ask. The 2 free hours would have expired at 20.51 and the car was collected at 02.00 and the car park was less than half full when the car was parked and at 2 am there were very few cars parked -does that represent a lack of actual losses ie not the same as for example a busy retail shopping centre car park?

[dontwannaberippedoff]

andydd - would I say that 'I' was unaware of any signage or 'the driver' was unaware of any signage?

[Michael Browne]

There's nothing wrong in writing to them as in post #5. Some people feel the need to respond and deny any debt.

 

My own personal opinion, mainly borne out of experience of several PPC tickets, is that ignoring works just as well and is less effort on my part, well none actually

[Michael Browne]

andydd - would I say that 'I' was unaware of any signage or 'the driver' was unaware of any signage?

You could say you have spoken to the driver and he was unaware etc

[Jamberson]

I think there is more to your "friend" than meets the (parking) eye. Does he work for these parking companies by any chance?

[dontwannaberippedoff]

No, i am 100% positive of that.

[Jamberson]

Then what does he mean when he says:

 

I'm working on three County Court cases against non-paying customers right now:

 

If the latter two haven't paid by the end of next week, I will be asking the court to appoint a bailiff to seize goods to the value of my claim.

 

If this is not refering to parking charges or some other speculative invoice, it is of no relevance.

[dx100uk]

Like many others I have received a Parking Charge Notice(from Parking Eye) and consider the amount to be unfair - £60 if I pay now, or £90 if I don't pay by 2nd July 2012.

 

As the registered keeper of the vehicle which was parked at a motorway service station my name and address was traced via the DVLA

when the cameras photgraphed the car entering and leaving the car park.

 

I used this car park on occasion in the past as a convenient meeting point to share travel costs to a further destination and had absolutely no idea that things had changed.

 

Had the signage been noticed and read the £8 parking fee for parking longer than the free 2 hours allowed would have been happily paid.

 

Having read many threads on here and other forums, watched the youtube Watchdog clips etc,

i had come to the conclusion that I would grit my teeth and ignore the PCN and the expected deluge of threatening letters etc that would ensue.

 

However, I then got the following advice from a friend:

 

It wasn't Parking Eye but it was another such company and I knew that I had broken their posted rules for the car park I had used;

I ignored the ticket which was stuck to my car

but when the letters were followed by the County Court summons, I paid up to avoid having a CCJ issued against me

 

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the way that private parking companies operate,

I can tell you that if it goes to court and you ignore it:

their fees get added to your debt and a CCJ will make it difficult for you to get credit.

 

I'm working on three County Court cases against non-paying customers right now:

one summons issued yesterday and two CCJ's issued after the defendants ignored their respective summonses last month.

 

If the latter two haven't paid by the end of next week, I will be asking the court to appoint a bailiff to seize goods to the value of my claim.

 

If you intend to dispute the penalty charge you should make contact with them (registered letters etc.)

and demand the cancellation of the ticket using what you've learnt online.

 

But if you do nothing and it goes through due process in the courts, you'll have no defence and no choice if a CCJ gets issued.

 

We encounter these parking tickets with our fleet drivers from time to time

and the proof of driver is often solved by photographic evidence provided by the parking company

(look out for cameras on the entrance to motorway service areas).

 

With the company as the registered keeper of the vehicles,

we always settle promptly to avoid wasting time and money unless we have a stout defence;

but parking fines are the driver's responsibility so we take it out of their wages!

 

Now I am at a loss as to what to do for the best. Having been made redundant recently I can ill afford the extortionate amount, but the above advice has realy scared me-can anyone comment on the above please?

 

lots of glaring mistakes here.

 

they are NOT penalty charges - NOWHERE on any PPC paperwork does it use those words.

 

they are NOT fine, Again, nowhere on ANY PPC paperwork will they use that word.

 

there are many others oo..

 

you can safely ignore any threats.

there are just TOO MANY failed court cases by parking eye to even bother listing

 

just use our search here.

 

dx

[DBC]

Then what does he mean when he says:

 

I'm working on three County Court cases against non-paying customers right now:

 

If the latter two haven't paid by the end of next week, I will be asking the court to appoint a bailiff to seize goods to the value of my claim.

 

If this is not refering to parking charges or some other speculative invoice, it is of no relevance.

 

Written by somebody who doesn't understand the county court process. What does it mean by "working on three count court cases"? And for proper bailiffs to be appointed, the case has to go to court, the defendant loses and then does not pay whatever the judge orders within 28 days.

[Michael Browne]

Then what does he mean when he says:

 

I'm working on three County Court cases against non-paying customers right now:

 

If the latter two haven't paid by the end of next week, I will be asking the court to appoint a bailiff to seize goods to the value of my claim.

 

.

He's referring to claims he has issued against customers for non-payment of goods/services from his business ie nothing whatsoever to do with parking charges and as you say no relevance at all

[dontwannaberippedoff]

I have no idea what he means by this (since he is currently abroad and have not had chance to speak )

 

I know i once had a county court claim in the small claims division awarded against somebody who didn't pay rent in a house I was letting whilst abroad,

it was totally meaningless since that person never paid a penny back to me.

 

Having read all the threads I must say that I almost feel as though 'I would be letting the side down' if I paid the charge

because I feel that these private parking companies are preying on vulnerable law abiding citizens and it just isn't right anymore than the numerous [problem]s you hear about.

 

They have in people's eyes a legitimacy to do what they do.

 

However, and i suppose that is the crux of the matter,

i am a 'vulnerable' person, i feel that i cannot afford to pay and at the same time know that I will (if i ignore the letter)

be very stressed by the subsequent threats and worry that if i don't pay the £60 the amount will ultimately increase..

..and i can see that is exactly how they make their money...very clever.

 

That is why I joined this forum, to get reassurance that I am doing the right thing to ignore the PCN.

 

I can categorically say that the driver did not notice the signage

- it never entered my head that there would be any at this car park, but ..

..ignorance is not bliss in the eyes of the law..

 

.so the question still remains as to the legality of it all.

 

All the comments and advice are very much appreciated.

 

I did have one of these about a year ago, which i paid without question, and at the time was in a better financial position.

[dx100uk]

the ONLY tickets you EVER have to pay are the ones

from council wardens/police.

they say on them

 

PENALTY CHARGE NOTICE.

 

the ones from PPC's say

cleaver words that MAKE PCN

 

like Parking Charge Notice

or

other words too

 

it is ONLY

ones that say

 

EAXACTLY AND ONLY

 

PENALTY CHARGE NOTICE

 

you should bother with

 

dx

[Somebody Told Me]

I completely endorse Michael Browne's take on this.

 

A relative of mine received such a charge notice from Parking Eye just before Christmas and was minded to pay it.

 

After researching things for them I convinced them to do nothing and a few letters and months later and they've heard nothing more.

 

If you ignore it and receive other letters which concern you come back to CAG and we'll reassure you that nothing will happen.

[dontwannaberippedoff]

Thank you, that is very reassuring! It is the principal of the whole thing - ie a company set up purely with the aim of making money from scaring people ..it really samcks of a 'protection racket' though i am sure they would argue that point.

[Tony P]

..it really samcks of a 'protection racket' though i am sure they would argue that point.

 

No they will not!

 

They will not enter into any meaningful dialogue or argument but will just sent worthless Thread-0-Grams designed to scare the cash out of you.

 

It is all a SСAM to rip you off.

[dontwannaberippedoff]

I feel a bit of a 'wuss'.

..and feel poised on this decision of 'do I, or don't I pay this..

....I am taking note of all you guys are saying.

..and if i decide that i can 'brave' the threats.

..would like to post on here all the letters that i will no doubt receive as they come in...

...If I decide don't pay.

.there is still the decision to make

- write and inform them

'I deny any debt incurred and will be prepared to defend in court'

or simply ignore all corresondence up until a the potential of a summons to a Count Court

[dx100uk]

pers i'd do the later

 

IF claim form ever appears, we'll help you deal with it.

 

you won't find any successful claims for parking eye.

 

those that are documented around the various forums

 

have all just about been concluded to have been 'plants' [relatives or ex-employees ]

 

dx