Mobile stolen abroad, thief ran up huge bill.

[221b]

Just had the itemised bill back from Filthafone - criminy, the person who nicked it was up ALL night phoning people!

 

The calls are practically continuous at every stage of the night!

 

Anyway, the calls number 157. Considering I have Vodafone Passport in place and the thief was using Vodafone's preferred network of Bel Proximus (how inadvertently thoughtful of him...), each call should have been capped at 75p, which works out at (157 x 75p) £117.75 & VAT on top of my monthly charge of £36.74 - (though I haven't even used a miniscule fraction of this month's 'free' minutes/texts after my phone was instantly nicked!).

 

I feel in an excellent position to press them on Vodafone Passport and why it wasn't working at the time of the calls when I am clearly registered for it and could rightly assume that it would at least cap the calls in this horrible situation. Are they breaching some part of my contract with them by lulling me into having a service such as Passport and then not operating it consistently? Supposing I had actually made all of those calls myself in good faith while abroad, thinking "oh well, it's only 75p a call" and then come home to this shock of a bill. I'd like to know where I'd stand then...

 

In light of this I feel in a much stronger position now to pay nothing further than I've mentioned in the first paragraph. £117.75 + VAT - I don't even feel inclined to pay the monthly line rental as they cut my phone off as soon as they realised I wasn't going to pay the £1797.99 bill!.

 

Any musings?

 

Thanks

 

221b

[buzby]

That is excellent news. Were all the calls international (ie outwith Belgium) to the same country of destination? If not, it could have been used by many people paying a few Euro to the thief. The Passport scheme has many gotchas to catch the unwary, however if the network used was on the shortlist of those to be used for the service, AND you did request and have been charged for the Passport fee, that's their failing - not yours, so the bill has to be recalculated. Once you have the revised amount (say £117.00), you can then negotiate THAT figure shown to something more reasonable. I'd be prepared to offer then £50 in full and final settlement, without admission of liability on either side. Failing that, and in their weakened position, you could suggest you let the courts decide. Either way, you want it noted that the amount claimed from you is immediately revised, and that it is marked as being in dispute.

 

Go for it girl!

 

[StudentInDebt]

I think you'd better go away and have a look at how Vodafone Passport works. The 75p refers to the connection charge whilst abroad for calls to the UK or within the network country. If you have inclusive minutes then these are used effectively limiting the cost of the call to 75p, once your minutes are up then you are charged the standard UK call charges. If the calls are to countries other than the UK or network or are to premium rate numbers then you pay the standard world rate.

[221b]

Hi there StudentInDebt

 

Hmm...

 

I don't ever recall being given that information when I signed up for Vodafone Passport, just that my received and made calls would be capped to 75p a call and come off my minutes' entitlement. Of which I had approx 300 at the time.

 

I think most of the calls were to France and some within Belgium from what I can tell; no premium rate numbers. In any event, surely Vodafone have their preferred networks in France as well or wherever it was he was calling?

 

I just can't conceive that the actual costs to Vodafone are what they are charging me. They are, therefore, making money out of a most distressing situation. Profiting from a criminal act doesn't seem very CSR of them...

 

Thanks for the points though!

 

221b

[StudentInDebt]

In that case the French calls will be at the Zone 2 rate of 75p per minute and the Belgian calls should be included under Passport. Your minutes will only apply if they would have at home (for example on any Anytime contract they would apply at any time, on a Leisure contract they would only apply during evenings/weekends).

 

Probably worth checking all the numbers for destination as further afield will be costing £1.50 per minute

[barracad]

If you state you aren't aware of how Vodafone Passport works then perhaps you should read the letter which you sent to Vodafone:

 

I found this information regarding Vodafone Passport - All customers, whether pay-monthly or pre-pay, can register free for Vodafone Passport, which applies to making calls home or in country and receiving calls whilst roaming on Vodafone’s preferred networks. On Passport, calls are charged at a customer’s standard plan UK call rate, plus a one-off charge of 75p. The cost of receiving a call is also a one-off 75p charge.

The 75p you refer to is in addition to the call cost, it doesn't mean the calls will be capped. And the passport service doesn't apply because the calls weren't made to the UK.

 

Don't forget that it was your fault the phone was not barred sooner, not Vodafone's. I'm surprised they have offered you anything to be honest. 25% seems like a very respectable offer to me, and I'm sure it's been offered purely in the interests of customer relations.

 

 

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[221b]

I have Anytime 250, now 500.

 

The 'calling to another country thing' was absolutely never explained to me when I set the VP up in the first place. I was actually offered it rather than asking for it. Even know the date and time this conversation took place.

 

Not that I would generally wait to get to Belgium then call 150 people in France anyway!

 

Oh well, I'll have to try a different tack then if what you say is true.

 

Many thanks...

 

221b

[221b]

If you state you aren't aware of how Vodafone Passport works then perhaps you should read the letter which you sent to Vodafone: I never stated I didn't know it worked. It would now appear on advice from others on this site though that I didn't know exactly how the system worked, perhaps as it had not been fully explained to me when I was so quickly encouraged to sign up for it in the first place. I also feel that there is a deal of ambiguity in how they describe the product; how convenient for them...

 

Originally Posted by 221b

I found this information regarding Vodafone Passport - All customers, whether pay-monthly or pre-pay, can register free for Vodafone Passport, which applies to making calls home or in country When I copied this information from Vodafone's website I understood this to mean, making calls home to the UK or from within another country, but not limited to that country! and receiving calls whilst roaming on Vodafone’s preferred networks. All the calls were on Vodafone's preferred network, Bel Proximus. On Passport, calls are charged at a customer’s standard plan UK call rate, plus a one-off charge of 75p. The cost of receiving a call is also a one-off 75p charge.

 

 

The 75p you refer to is in addition to the call cost, it doesn't mean the calls will be capped. And the passport service doesn't apply because the calls weren't made to the UK. The 75p is in addition to the minutes coming off one's allowance, of which I had a huge number. That is how I was given to understand the system. That is why I called it a capping system, as then also, the minutes are only charged at your standard UK rate, not 75p per minute!

 

Don't forget that it was your fault the phone was not barred sooner, not Vodafone's. I would have to at least partly disagree there. Vodafone say they have a department monitoring these sorts of fraudulant patterns, but that they prioritise them. I'd like to know why mine wasn't being prioritised! In any event, as I've said previously, I was in Belgium for medical treatment, I had been pickpocketed, had no money and was on my way to hospital as the crime happened. I would feel it more appropriate to say it was my misfortune not to have been able to have reported it to them sooner. I'm surprised they have offered you anything to be honest. 25% seems like a very respectable offer to me, and I'm sure it's been offered purely in the interests of customer relations. I can't see how that can be considered 'respectable' when they are actually marking up a considerable profit still, on what was a criminal act with a direct victim who is one of their customers. They have it well within their power to come out of this situation glowing by showing some humanity but have clearly decided not to.

 

Please don't think I'm having a go at you and I thank you for your time in responding.

 

Please continue to contribute if you can suggest something that I might positively be able to take from it in terms of my wrangle with Vodafone.

 

Many thanks

 

221b

[buzby]

If you state you aren't aware of how Vodafone Passport works then perhaps you should read the letter which you sent to Vodafone:

The 75p you refer to is in addition to the call cost, it doesn't mean the calls will be capped. And the passport service doesn't apply because the calls weren't made to the UK. .

 

I've never seen that as an exclusion (that the only place you can call is back to the UK). The T&Cs misleadingly talk of your 'home tariff' - now, is that your tariff on your home phone, or Vodafone's network when only at home, or by home do they mean the UK? To be fair to our respondent, this isn't spelled out in any useful detail, and if YOU were faced with a £1,700 bill, I'm sure you wouldn;t be sitting idly by saying "It's all my fault, I didn't let them know it was stolen".

 

Don't forget that it was your fault the phone was not barred sooner, not Vodafone's. I'm surprised they have offered you anything to be honest. 25% seems like a very respectable offer to me, and I'm sure it's been offered purely in the interests of customer relations.

 

There's a situation where a network also has to take joint responsibility. It is not uncommon for someone to lose their mobile and not know about it, in the same way you lose a credit card. Yet credit card companies have the temerity to block transactions and refer them when the card is being used by the authorised signatory until they are sure the right person is using it! But in THIS case, Vodafone are happy for someone to run up a bill of £1700 and admit to having no security? Sorry, in my book they have been more negligent in this matter than our respondent. Does everyone with a mobile have unlimited credit? We should be told - and I'm sure our respondent wasn't

 

My view is that there is a joint duty of care in this matter - and as the respondent advised Vodafone as soon as the loss was discovered, I would be interested to know how high a bill they would have allowed before removing service. The fact it got to over £500 without this happening makes them negligent in my book - clearly benefiting from the profit of call charges at the expense of a customer who can be held accountable.

 

I'd like to think that anyone with a Vodafone contract thinks seriously about this and asks the company at what amount of call cost will they suspend service and hold the customer liable?

[221b]

An update is in order I feel...

 

Since the last offer from Voda, they have increased it to 35% off the £1,800 bill - so, they're still making a handsome profit out of a crime, then. Very ethical...

 

Although at the same time as cutting my phone off, they're now charging me an additional £500+ disconnection fee AND still charging me for the monthly contract!

 

Pah...

 

Luckily, following Buzby's advice, I have written to BBC TV's Working Lunch and Simon Gompertz, their consumer specialist has taken up my story. It's likely that I'll be appearing on the programme either tomorrow or possibly early next week.

 

Strangely enough, the Director's Office of Voda were on the phone to me pdq after Simon contacted me - how extraordinary...

 

Not sure if this will get me anywhere with the massive wobbly bill, but here's hoping.

 

More anon...

 

221b

[buzby]

I was just going to ask you, as I was also called to ask if I was aware of other conmsumers who have suffered in a similar way. I'm sure you were gracious in declining Voda's offer of refund, I still believe it would be fairer if you contributed say £250, as being punishment enough, with the remainder being met from their charitible/goodworks budget... they've certainly wasted their money on the Ashes....

[davethorp]

I'm shocked that they did not bar your phone prior to the bill getting so huge. I had a contract on voda a couple of years ago and my calls got barred after about £100 til I contacted vodafone to get the bar lifted. Thought that was a standard thing they put on all their contracts to stop bills spiraling. Guess not

 

I'm currently on vodafone myself (albeit on pay as you go now) and have never had a major problem with them. Least if the BBC are taking an interest in your story vodafone might roll over and play nice now

[aromatherepy]

hi,

had my fone nicked in spain again vodafone, couldn't contact them until i got back, did however get police report from cops in spain to back me up, again my bill was run up but only to £70, but they gladly wiped it for me, sorry to hear your demise hope you get it sorted.

[221b]

Well, I went on Working Lunch today - what an agonising experience that was!!

 

I sort of burbled a bit and expected to do re-takes but it was all over in one take.

 

Thought of lots of good things to say on the way home in the car afterwards. Hmm...

 

The presenter, Simon Gompertz, told me that Vodafone have offered to cut the bill by 50% and waive the termination fee of £502.56 - generous of them!

 

So, Vodafone are still insisiting on making a profit, (albeit slightly squeezed) from a crime which has a direct victim. How sleazy...

 

Am waiting for Vodafone to contact me direct and offer this formally to me.

 

Will report back when they do.

 

Am posting the blow-by-blow account in the hope that this stuff may be of use to other folk who might get in the same position. Working Lunch were very efficient and helpful.

 

221b

[TATTER]

BBC NEWS | Programmes | Working Lunch

 

just found this if anyone missed it as I did.

Sorry to read your terrible story and hope you get it sorted to your satisfaction soon, Then change network provider damn sharpish

 

Best wishes

[TATTER]

This should open the video itself

 

BBC NEWS | Programmes | Working Lunch | Watch us in broadband

[221b]

Hi there

 

Thanks for all your recent posts and words of support...

 

Had a call from Vodafone 'Customer Relations' this morning.

 

As predicted, they are offering me a 50% reduction in the call charges and most generously 'waiving' the £502.56 termination fee - the fee which they charge me for them cutting off my phone...

 

They are saying that they didn't get notification by the Belgian network of the outrageous call volume until three days after my handset was stolen. That seems a bit sloppy to me... Also slightly confusing as they claim a text message was sent to the handset when the call volume reached £1,200.

 

Also the representative from Voda claims that they are making a loss by charging me 50% of the call costs, and not making a profit. I find this extraordinary!

 

It really feels as if I'm being treated like a criminal here - Vodafone have absolutely no interest in pursuing the real criminal of this horrible situation, just me, who has already been a victim. I may be the one who ultimately has to go to court, while the thief who stole my phone gets off scot free.

 

The calls he made were several to repeated numbers, ie people he knows well, so if they really wanted to see justice done, they would be liaising with the police and tracking down this criminal, not making my life a bl**dy misery.

 

Have asked for a deadlock letter now as I really still can't afford to pay the £900 bill.

 

Been in touch with Which? Legal and they are suggesting I offer Voda my monthly contracted amount plus 50% - which would be about £52 in total. Their argument is that Voda are operating a department that is dedicated to detect fraud, yet it doesn't work properly, ie they have to carry out all aspects of their service with reasonable care and skill which they have not done.

 

Finally, I feel as though I am being discriminated against as the more people I talk to, the more I find that Vodafone have scrapped bills of other customers in the same position as me, yet I am being treated differently. Surely Voda should have one rule for all its customers?

 

Thanks again for your words of encouragement.

 

221b

[buzby]

Helen, the termination fee is not for cutting off the phone, but the balance due for the contract commitment... had you upgraded to a new handset recently? Although you may not wish to continue with the network, you can request a replacement SIM with your original number and use it in a phone you supply, this way you can mitigate this loss and concentrade on the call charges only.

 

I firmly believe they duty of care issue is still highly relevant, and the best course of action is to be reasonable, but firm. Make an offer based on your ability to pay, and in full or final settlement. However, if they intend pursuing you for the reemaining balance, you'll be happy for a court to decide. However, you require confirmation that - as the account is in dispute - your credit record has not been compromised.

[221b]

I've offered to return the handset to them. I only upgraded to the new phone after the handset was stolen in Belgium. When I reported the phone stolen, they made no mention of any calls made on the stolen handset, so I thought all was well and re-committed to a new contract.

 

If I am prevented by Vodafone from using the line that I am contracted for, I cannot see how they can charge me for something that they are preventing me from using!

 

Yes, as far as I know, my credit rating is still squeaky at present.

 

I now have to contact Otelo, Vodafone's ADR (Dispute Resolution Service) and see how they assist me in progressing with this wobbly mess.

 

221b

[buzby]

The handset and the SIM are 2 different things. Although your SIM has been cut off, you could put a PAYG Voda SIM in it and be back in business, so the phone itself is not inoperative.

 

Keep us posted!

[221b]

I suppose I didn't want to be paying for PAYG SIM calls, while still racking up monthly call charges on another number (that was officially cut off).

 

As it is, I've been using my mother's SIM in an old phone since the debacle.

 

I'll be sure to post as and when I have any more news...

 

In the meantime, I'd be interested to hear if other folk have had their bills wiped if they've been in a similar situation. It might be useful to refer to if things get ugly

 

221b

[buzby]

Are you saying they are still billing you a monthly rental for the SIM that has been disconnected? Or are you able to make/receive calls on the replacement phone. If the monthly charges are still running, and the SIM blocked to prevent you making those inclusive calls, I'd quicky ensure those monthly charges are creidted too....

[Pat-Uk]

Just been reading through your post and have noticed one thing that does not appear to have been mentioned, Travel Insurance... did you have any, surley this will cover your losses in full.

 

Also what tarrif are you being charged monthly for ??? even though the have susspended your service, you may be able to change to the lowest monthly tarrif with no free mins or texts, might be worth a try.

[rks99]

I think Which Legal's argument is the best one to follow up on.

 

On another note I loved your letter to Vphone:).

 

hope you get a good result finally.

[lawbunny]

I've only just found this thread and I realise it's a bit old, but I thought I would add a wee response in case other people are experiencing this same issue.

 

Owing to my "experience" with mobile phone companies, I would like to explain how international billing works, as I see many people, understandably, cannot work out how such a high bill was run up without the network doing anything about it.

 

Each customer has a credit limit, and once you go over this amount in call charges your line is suspended. Unfortunately, the better your credit history is with the company, the higher this limit will be. It is unlikely that your credit limit was £1,200 - I have never come across one higher than £500 before. However, whilst you are abroad with your phone, the charges for each call only get added on to your UK mobile account when the foreign network you are using actually passes the details on to the UK network. Obviously, this can take a day, possibly longer depending which country you are in. This means then, that when the company recieves the details for the call which has put you over your credit limit, they will send you a text telling you to call them, and then they will suspend your sim card so no further calls can be made. However, there could be another few hundred pounds worth of charges for calls which have already been made waiting to be added on to your bill. Thus, the network will cut your service off when you go over your credit limit, but further charges could be added to your bill after that, although they will be for calls made before the suspension

 

This is why it is important to call the network asap so that they can suspend your sim card immediately. Before you leave the UK, you should call your network or visit their website and request to know the number which you should dial from abroad to reach them in such circumstances. Unfortunately, since it is possible for you to contact the network in which case they will suspend your sim, you will remain liable for all charges incurred up until you do notify them the phone has been stolen. Ultimately, you are liable for all calls made from your phone, whether it is actually you who has made them, or someone else.

 

This has been my experience with a few mobile networks. I am not sure if it works exactly the same for all networks, but I would imagine so.