Universal credits

[rainbo]

But the point of my bringing up that case, is that he is disabled and sick - so conversely you would agree that he does need more help and presumably, income.

 

Yes - but my sticking point is that if someone is well enough to work, then they're NOT entitled to the benefits that are designed for the people who are too sick or disabled to work. He's getting WTC because he's working, he therefore shouldn't be entitled to ESA as his illness/disablement certainly isn't hindering his capability for work.

Edited June 26, 2012 by rainbo

[Nystagmite]

Yes - but my sticking point is that if someone is well enough to work, then they're NOT entitled to the benefits that are designed for the people who are too sick to work. He's getting WTC because he's working, he therefore shouldn't be entitled to ESA as his illness/disablement certainly isn't hindering his capability for work.

 

Exactly. If you're only working a few hours a week, then ok. (some want to try working a few hours before coming off benefit) But working in excess of 16 hours a week, you're hardly ill enough to require a benefit for someone who can't work.

[Guest amianne]

Yes - but my sticking point is that if someone is well enough to work, then they're NOT entitled to the benefits that are designed for the people who are too sick or disabled to work. He's getting WTC because he's working, he therefore shouldn't be entitled to ESA as his illness/disablement certainly isn't hindering his capability for work.

 

Don't have a go at me! I was only reporting what is happening with someone that I know.

Having said that if the law is not as specific as you would like it to be, then you should complain to your MP.

 

As the law stands, anybody on Contribution Based ESA is entitled to carry out Permitted Work that does not contradict the reason why ESA was awarded and earn up to £20 a week with no limit on the number of hours worked.

[rainbo]

Don't have a go at me! I was only reporting what is happening with someone that I know.

 

Where was I having a go at you?

[MIKEY DABODEE]

Please read the earlier posts where it is quite clear that being self employed means that you currently can work in excess of 30 hours a week and still claim ESA as well as max WTC's. It's all down to how you structure the business.

 

I think you have invented a scenrio to get a rise,

 

If your friend is doing PWLL earning £20, paying his wife as his secretary working 30 hrs, and getting WTC

and he is an architect

and in the Support Group of ESA,

then GOOD LUCK

to him,

he has found the loophole indeed

 

Bet you will find another friend soon with another scenerio, who also has managed to beat the system, :)

lol

Edited June 26, 2012 by MIKEY DABODEE

[benidorm60]

Where does he live please, I need plans drawn and adjusted for my mothers bungalow, at the moment she only has two bedrooms, we need another one and a small extension to the lounge.

The prices we have had are outrageous. Is he cheaper, must be able to get past the council though

and meet all regs

[MIKEY DABODEE]

Where does he live please, I need plans drawn and adjusted for my mothers bungalow, at the moment she only has two bedrooms, we need another one and a small extension to the lounge.

The prices we have had are outrageous. Is he cheaper, must be able to get past the council though

and meet all regs

 

dont hold your breath lol if you are having anything done like this then it pays to see a proper professional cuts out the aggro in the end....

Edited June 26, 2012 by MIKEY DABODEE

[Tiger Lily]

Please read the earlier posts where it is quite clear that being self employed means that you currently can work in excess of 30 hours a week and still claim ESA as well as max WTC's. It's all down to how you structure the business.

 

A bit of an insider maybe

[Chumleigh]

Whether this architect is a made up case or not, perhaps it should be looked at from the architect's point of view.

 

Assuming he is genuinely ill/ disabled as stated. it is likley that if he did not work in the way described, he would not work at all. This is surely detrimental.

 

If his wife did not work for him, he would likely not be able to carry out the work. Same for the son.

 

Paying a spouse/ relative is not necessarily 'getting away with anything' - it is usualy a way to get more work for less money and someone who will understand and make the necessary allowances. They may also be the most reliable. The wife/ son may also be vital to filling in the gaps that the disbaled/ ill person cannot meet. ie in cases such as these, perhaps it takes 3 people to make up one healthy architect.

 

I can believe this set up is real - but given the amount an architect can reasonably expect to earn without a disability, I cannot think that anyone on their right minds would creat this set up purely to claim benefits or cheat the system. Housing benefit is only payable on rent after all, the claimant will harldy have the chance to save for and buy a house, and will be subject to renting and housing benefit payments in retirement. They may well have a house and local area they are happy with and if so good luck to them, but many would find this lack of choice intolerable.

 

I have experience of horrors of private renting and tyring to claim housing benefit and complete lack of social housing, and I for one would not choose to stay in the system if I had even half a chance to get out and make it without benefits.

 

My husband is long term ill and self employed, I receive no carer's allowance as he works too much (his determination and suffering would astound anyone who knew what he really goes through - he was determined to go to work today on just 4 hours sleep after being ill during the night)

 

So in many ways he is just the kind of person the Tories are trying to create - working full time despite being ill. But we receive no benefits due to the complexities of the system(s). And being determined to work counts against him for disability claims.We have no safety net and not even sick pay. (and dont even think of trying to claim ESA for one or two affected days per week) We earn too much but not enough, we work to much but not enough. We live in a studio flat. What more can we do?

 

Having just read about Universal Credits, I fear things are going to become even worse for us. I cannot see how we can meet the minimum income floor. Yet despite being low profit making, his business contributes the majority of his turnover to other local businesses in terms of rent, insurance, payments to suppliers etc. Surely that has to count for something?

[Nystagmite]

I receive no carer's allowance as he works too much

 

That makes no difference. It depends on what you have coming in.

[Chumleigh]

Not so.. We dont actually earn enough a lot of the time to be over the limit for carer's allowance but dont receive it because he doesn't qualify for the passporting disabiliity benefit.

 

I meant that he (wants to) work too much so this counts against him in claiming any disability benefits... he has to work now because his claims were previously denied (and we all know that can happen even in cases of the most genuine illness and need) He would need time off sick on a daily basis in a normal job - beyond what would be considered reasonable adjustments for disabled people. How would he keep that job long term? I still care for him 35+ hours a week and during the day and night.

 

So short hand, I receive no carer's allowance because he works too much. But mainly because of the passporting ESA/ DLA system which can be extermely unfair on some ill people.

 

Out of the whole of my post, that is the only thing you can comment (pick me up) on???

[Guest amianne]

Whether this architect is a made up case or not, perhaps it should be looked at from the architect's point of view.

 

Assuming he is genuinely ill/ disabled as stated. it is likley that if he did not work in the way described, he would not work at all. This is surely detrimental.

 

If his wife did not work for him, he would likely not be able to carry out the work. Same for the son.

 

Paying a spouse/ relative is not necessarily 'getting away with anything' - it is usualy a way to get more work for less money and someone who will understand and make the necessary allowances. They may also be the most reliable. The wife/ son may also be vital to filling in the gaps that the disbaled/ ill person cannot meet. ie in cases such as these, perhaps it takes 3 people to make up one healthy architect.

 

I can believe this set up is real - but given the amount an architect can reasonably expect to earn without a disability, I cannot think that anyone on their right minds would creat this set up purely to claim benefits or cheat the system. Housing benefit is only payable on rent after all, the claimant will harldy have the chance to save for and buy a house, and will be subject to renting and housing benefit payments in retirement. They may well have a house and local area they are happy with and if so good luck to them, but many would find this lack of choice intolerable.

 

Thanks

 

If he was to have this business as a full time one, even despite his disabilities, he would have to earn another £350 a week clear in order to be on the same level of income as he is now.

 

He is quite happy 'doing his little bit' which he uses to top up his benefit income. At the moment the business is grossing about £20,000 a year

 

He has never been one to hanker about money or what money can buy. He enjoys his freedom too much. He did work for a company quite a few years ago, but hated the regime.

 

They aren't interested in saving for a home (they are both well into their late 50's/early 60's). They are more than happy living in private rented. The downside of course is that they have to move home every 18months/2 years.

 

HB/CTB will always be available in one form or another.

 

Problems will arise in the future they know that - Universal Credit/failing esa/losing DLA to PIP etc.

If the worst came to the worst he would have to review his current working and may have to cease it and go onto benefits full time i.e. means tested benefits. Given their ages, other options will become available - Pension Credit and of course the State Retirement Pension.

[Nystagmite]

DLA is based on care and /or mobility needs. Nothing to do with work.

[Chumleigh]

DLA is based on care and /or mobility needs. Nothing to do with work.

 

I agree DLA should be based on care/ mobility needs, but it has everything to do with work if they argue that being able to do some work negates your claim - as happened to us. It is a twisting of the rules but it happens

[Nystagmite]

It shouldn't do. Many people do work and claim DLA with no problem.

[Chumleigh]

I am glad to know that private renting is working out for them :o)

 

I think it is also worth pointing out that because of housing costs the level of income needed to satisfy a minimum standard of living varies hugely. In the South East for example it is very hard to cover even basic living costs. Nevermind achieve holidays etc etc.

 

How will Universal Credits cope with that? Or will we all end up moving up north/ west?!

[Chumleigh]

Yes, they do. But it can also depend on the nature of the illness and the level of proof/ evidence/ opinion of the Dr on the day. Some illnesses/ disabilites are less well catered for under the requirements. it can be harder to achieve points for some issues under the simplified poitns system even when they do have a demonstrable effect on day to day life and work.

 

But anyway there are many thread on DLA, Iw as merely wishing to point out the consequences that the UC minimum income floor may have for people with illness or disability.

[san_d]

Is it true that they will replace crisis loans with food vouchers or is it just rumours?

[MIKEY DABODEE]

Thanks

 

If he was to have this business as a full time one, even despite his disabilities, he would have to earn another £350 a week clear in order to be on the same level of income as he is now.

 

He is quite happy 'doing his little bit' which he uses to top up his benefit income. At the moment the business is grossing about £20,000 a year

 

He has never been one to hanker about money or what money can buy. He enjoys his freedom too much. He did work for a company quite a few years ago, but hated the regime.

 

They aren't interested in saving for a home (they are both well into their late 50's/early 60's). They are more than happy living in private rented. The downside of course is that they have to move home every 18months/2 years.

 

HB/CTB will always be available in one form or another.

 

Problems will arise in the future they know that - Universal Credit/failing esa/losing DLA to PIP etc.

If the worst came to the worst he would have to review his current working and may have to cease it and go onto benefits full time i.e. means tested benefits. Given their ages, other options will become available - Pension Credit and of course the State Retirement Pension.

 

 

Amianne that is an absolute disgrace, It says it all, if this is happening it needs stopping

This is why then things have to change. And will change...

It makes a complete mockery of the benefit system

I am so angry..

People on ESA who get kicked off in remission with Cancer, like my dear friend,

whose employer has even had to let her go

and then people like your friend who is milking the system...

 

I hope some one some where puts this wrong, right and soon.

Edited June 30, 2012 by antone
Fixed quote tag

[Nystagmite]

People on ESA who get kicked off in remission with Cancer, like my dear friend,

whose employer has even had to let her go

 

I am so sorry to hear that.

[MIKEY DABODEE]

Yes, and the Irony of it she had worked full time as a fund raising manager for a cancer charity.

shame

Edited June 30, 2012 by MIKEY DABODEE