Universal credits

[Tiger Lily]

universal credits regs are out

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/uc-draft-regs-2012.pdf

[Tiger Lily]

http://policyinpractice.co.uk/universal-credit/universal-credit-calculator/universal-credit-claim/

[pandaspot]

That's a interesting calculator, I will be sharing that

[rainbo]

Gosh, I wish I understood what it alll means! In-work conditionality? Additional earnings required? I just want to know if I'm going to be better (ha!) or worse off...think I need to wait to see how this shakes out...

[Nystagmite]

Under that, I'll be worse off than what I am now.

[speedfreek]

Gosh, I wish I understood what it alll means! In-work conditionality? Additional earnings required? I just want to know if I'm going to be better (ha!) or worse off...think I need to wait to see how this shakes out...

 

Universal Credit will also, for the first time, introduce “in work” conditionality for those who earn below an earnings threshold. The threshold will be set at the equivalent of working full time at the national minimum wage (i.e. £212.80), although it will be lower for claimants with caring commitments. This in-work conditionality is intended to help to strengthen the incentive to increase hours and earnings for those on low incomes.

 

So basically if you have a part time low paid job under £212 in earnings you will receive a lower rate of benefit and be subject to the same regime as somebody who does no work. Until basically you stop being lazy and do.

 

I'd take every calculator etc with a large pinch of salt. What's on the table is a basic frame work all the nastiness and madness of IDS which will be the actual meat regulations on the bones has yet to be filled in. Either by a shame consultation or sneaked in on the back of something else.

[rainbo]

Universal Credit will also, for the first time, introduce “in work” conditionality for those who earn below an earnings threshold. The threshold will be set at the equivalent of working full time at the national minimum wage (i.e. £212.80), although it will be lower for claimants with caring commitments. This in-work conditionality is intended to help to strengthen the incentive to increase hours and earnings for those on low incomes.

 

So basically if you have a part time low paid job under £212 in earnings you will receive a lower rate of benefit and be subject to the same regime as somebody who does no work. Until basically you stop being lazy and do.

 

 

Mmm. Wonder how that will affect self-employed on less than minimum wage? I have a horrible creeping feeling that my safety net is about to be pulled from under my feet, and I'm going to have to work the 150 hours+ p/w that the calculator stated I need to work to get the money. (If I'm understanding it correctly.)

 

I know there's no official guidelines yet, but this may just spell the end of my dreams.

[Tiger Lily]

I think this will effect the self employed and will know more soon, as the training will soon commence

[Nystagmite]

Aren't tax credits cracking down on those who are self employed and don't earn minimum wage? I'm sure I've read on here about people having problems.

 

As mentioned earlier, I would be worse off under UC than on JSA. Is there transitional protection for people like me?

 

And there's no extra earnings disregard for disabled people; but it goes up for non-disabled people.

[rainbo]

Aren't tax credits cracking down on those who are self employed and don't earn minimum wage? I'm sure I've read on here about people having problems.

 

As mentioned earlier, I would be worse off under UC than on JSA. Is there transitional protection for people like me?

 

And there's no extra earnings disregard for disabled people; but it goes up for non-disabled people.

 

Yes, I was one of them! Had a WTC compliance examination earlier this year, they didn't do anything except send my stuff back with a "thanks, case is closed" - I believe I was one of the lucky ones who got contacted just before that particular cost-cutting scheme ended.

 

I don't think there's any way I can get my average hourly earnings above minimum wage between now and April next year, so I am going to have to think about how I can survive while chasing my ambition. Might mean having to cut back on family time and caring for my mentally ill ex-husband though so I can take a job while being SE on the side (legally, of course)...

 

I "look forward" (ha!) to learning more about self-employed & UTC as more info comes available.

 

Thanks all

[MIKEY DABODEE]

I think it will cut out some fraud,

 

the amount of self employed taxi drivers working 20 hours a week and declare £20 a week earnings is beyond a joke, however i do feel for the genuine people who are struggling, who will be hit by this i think it is unfair. if your not earning this money then your claim should not be based on this amount.

Edited June 22, 2012 by MIKEY DABODEE

[Nystagmite]

One problem I have with the earnings thing, WTC and SE is that whilst you may be working, you may not be providing your service. Therefore, not earning money. (advertising, accounts, etc)

 

Is that taken into account?

[MIKEY DABODEE]

It is the SDM who does the decision and they are taken into account, but I would think the taxi drviers earn a lot more, then we have the people who earn £20 dead, printed wage slips to boot, and the child minders who declare under the disregard, how dear is childmindiing these days , they sure must have a lot of overheads.

[rainbo]

Thanks for the last few replies - I am actually quite heartened by the taxi driver analogy!

[RaeUK]

... but I would think the taxi drviers earn a lot more ...

 

A lot of people think that as well. However, for a lot of taxi drivers the reality is different - at least in my part of the country. Its a damned hard way not to earn a living. If you work for a firm the shift is usually 11 hours five or six times a week. They don't like to admit they earn crap money so most drivers, when asked, will tell you the turnover of their best ever week plus a little extra for exageration purposes. But that's turnover. Take out your subs, fuel, insurance, twice yearly vehicle inspection, new set of tyres each year, daily car wash etc etc etc and you're not left with a lot. And the taxman has a guide to what he assumes your turnover is. If you fall out of those parimeters you'll have some explaining to do ...

[speedfreek]

This might be of use to others.

 

http://www.newsnow.co.uk/h/Current+Affairs/Welfare+State

 

It's a news feed site (that link has the Current Affairs >>> Welfare filter applied) that grabs stuff from all over the web.

 

As well as the usual round up of benefit cheats it picks up stuff you never knew existed or would have thought about. It's not perfect but it's not bad.

[Guest amianne]

I think it will cut out some fraud,

 

the amount of self employed taxi drivers working 20 hours a week and declare £20 a week earnings is beyond a joke, however i do feel for the genuine people who are struggling, who will be hit by this i think it is unfair. if your not earning this money then your claim should not be based on this amount.

 

I know one businessman that receives ESA and is in the Support Group, yet declares to HMRC that his weekly income is below £5 a week, yet claims that he works in excess of 30 hours a week!

 

He does pay his wife a nice wage out of the business. All legal as they say - HMRC/DWP all know about it and been doing this for the past two years. Currently receives over £200 a week just in ESA/WTC's alone. On top of that come his disability benefit of about £130 a week for MRC and HRM of DLA (he has been judged that he cannot walk and needs constant daily care.

[rainbo]

I know one businessman that receives ESA and is in the Support Group, yet declares to HMRC that his weekly income is below £5 a week, yet claims that he works in excess of 30 hours a week!

 

He does pay his wife a nice wage out of the business. All legal as they say - HMRC/DWP all know about it and been doing this for the past two years. Currently receives over £200 a week just in ESA/WTC's alone. On top of that come his disability benefit of about £130 a week for MRC and HRM of DLA (he has been judged that he cannot walk and needs constant daily care.

 

This post has me completely befuddled

How is this man claiming ESA AND WTC? Surely the 30 hours work would cancel out the ESA? Surely the WTC would cancel out the ESA? If you're on ESA, you're too ill to work (or at least, you're too ill to work full time), so how is he working AND getting ESA?

 

And don't even get me started on his declared income...he must have a fantastic accountant, is all I can say!

[sadone]

This sounds like It is going to be almost impossible to work as self employed under UC. I'm simply staggered at how complicated they're going to make things..

 

This is all set to be brought to an end by Universal Credit, which will introduce a staggering amount of complexity into the system and stifle the chances of both the self-employed and the entrepreneurial alike.

 

According to the recently published draft regulations: “claimants who declare that they have income from self-employment, or who are self-employed with no income, will be invited to a “Gateway” interview.”

 

This appears to be some form of Stalinist Dragon’s Den, whereby people will be forced to prove to the DWP that their business, or their trade is: “done with the intention of increasing the income received to the level we could expect the claimant to make if working full time”

 

Claimants will be expected to provide reams of evidence at these interviews which will no doubt be carried out by people with so much entrepreneurial know-how that they’ve ended up working in the Jobcentre.

 

Should the claimant pass this government test, then they will be granted a year’s start up period, during which they will be largely left alone. After that they will be subject to the ‘Minimum Income Floor’. This means that self-employed people will be expected to earn a certain amount a week, or lose eligibility for benefits or self-employed status. The Government are not telling us exactly what that Minimum Income Floor will be in the consultation for documents, however it has previously been suggested that people will be expected to earn at least the minimum wage for any self-employed activity.

 

Under the new proposals self-employed people will be expected to work at least 18 hours a week. It is unclear whether those in self-employment working at this level will be expected to abandon self-employment to take up full time work, or workfare, should the DWP deem it appropriate. Those working part time are now to be forced to continually look for full time work, attend interviews at the drop of a hat and hand in their notice immediately should they be offered even a temporary full time job.

 

 

 

Another aspect of the new regime will punish people who invest in tools, stock or other business expenses in order to increase earnings. Self employed people will now be required to report all income and business expenditure on a monthly basis as opposed to annually as under the present system. Expenses will not be carried over to the next month. This will mean if someone spends a couple of grand on stock this will only be reflected in their earnings for that month. The new system will make it impossible for self-employed people to invest on any significant level to improve their earnings.

 

It will not just be businesses that have large outlays, such as small shops or tradespeople, that will be affected by the monthly reporting. A freelance journalist who spends a month writing a piece in anticipation of it being sold will be penalised for not earning minimum wage during that period. Self employed people will be punished for injecting both time and cash in their business. The harder you work, the less you get.

 

People who fail to impress the Government with their self-employment plans will still be permitted to earn money from self-employment, and will face the same monthly requirement to report any earnings. They will also however be given a Claimant Commitment, meaning they will not be treated as self-employed. This will mean that there will be a requirement to attend Mandatory Work Activity or attend pointless courses and workshops with Welfare to Work companies like fraud ridden A4e any time the DWP sees fit.

 

This will destroy people’s ability to take on small amounts of work on a casual basis. Should someone be offered a few days work on a self-employed basis they will not be in a position to guarantee they can turn up. They could be sent to work in a charity shop with no pay that week instead. Far from the stated aim of making all work pay, short periods of self-employed work will be a commitment that claimants can no longer make under the new regime. The DWP will decide how you spend your time and if you fail to comply you could face sanctions for up to three years.

 

The rest here...

 

http://johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/2012/06/23/universal-credit-self-employment-and-the-minimum-wage/

Edited June 23, 2012 by sadone

[Nystagmite]

I know one businessman that receives ESA and is in the Support Group, yet declares to HMRC that his weekly income is below £5 a week, yet claims that he works in excess of 30 hours a week!

 

He does pay his wife a nice wage out of the business. All legal as they say - HMRC/DWP all know about it and been doing this for the past two years. Currently receives over £200 a week just in ESA/WTC's alone. On top of that come his disability benefit of about £130 a week for MRC and HRM of DLA (he has been judged that he cannot walk and needs constant daily care.

 

I'm trying to work out why this sounds familiar. Sure I've read this post on here before...

[sadone]

I'm trying to work out why this sounds familiar. Sure I've read this post on here before...

 

I wasn't going to say anything but the above rings a bell with me too. The talk of her fathers experience with the DWP on another thread also sounded very familiar.

 

I'm sure I've read a case written by another poster some time back that was uncannily similar .

 

Thought I'd bring this over as It's important imo..

 

This sounds like It is going to be almost impossible to work as self employed under UC. I'm simply staggered at how complicated they're going to make things..

 

This is all set to be brought to an end by Universal Credit, which will introduce a staggering amount of complexity into the system and stifle the chances of both the self-employed and the entrepreneurial alike.

 

According to the recently published draft regulations: “claimants who declare that they have income from self-employment, or who are self-employed with no income, will be invited to a “Gateway” interview.”

 

This appears to be some form of Stalinist Dragon’s Den, whereby people will be forced to prove to the DWP that their business, or their trade is: “done with the intention of increasing the income received to the level we could expect the claimant to make if working full time”

 

Claimants will be expected to provide reams of evidence at these interviews which will no doubt be carried out by people with so much entrepreneurial know-how that they’ve ended up working in the Jobcentre.

 

Should the claimant pass this government test, then they will be granted a year’s start up period, during which they will be largely left alone. After that they will be subject to the ‘Minimum Income Floor’. This means that self-employed people will be expected to earn a certain amount a week, or lose eligibility for benefits or self-employed status. The Government are not telling us exactly what that Minimum Income Floor will be in the consultation for documents, however it has previously been suggested that people will be expected to earn at least the minimum wage for any self-employed activity.

 

Under the new proposals self-employed people will be expected to work at least 18 hours a week. It is unclear whether those in self-employment working at this level will be expected to abandon self-employment to take up full time work, or workfare, should the DWP deem it appropriate. Those working part time are now to be forced to continually look for full time work, attend interviews at the drop of a hat and hand in their notice immediately should they be offered even a temporary full time job.

 

 

 

Another aspect of the new regime will punish people who invest in tools, stock or other business expenses in order to increase earnings. Self employed people will now be required to report all income and business expenditure on a monthly basis as opposed to annually as under the present system. Expenses will not be carried over to the next month. This will mean if someone spends a couple of grand on stock this will only be reflected in their earnings for that month. The new system will make it impossible for self-employed people to invest on any significant level to improve their earnings.

 

It will not just be businesses that have large outlays, such as small shops or tradespeople, that will be affected by the monthly reporting. A freelance journalist who spends a month writing a piece in anticipation of it being sold will be penalised for not earning minimum wage during that period. Self employed people will be punished for injecting both time and cash in their business. The harder you work, the less you get.

 

People who fail to impress the Government with their self-employment plans will still be permitted to earn money from self-employment, and will face the same monthly requirement to report any earnings. They will also however be given a Claimant Commitment, meaning they will not be treated as self-employed. This will mean that there will be a requirement to attend Mandatory Work Activity or attend pointless courses and workshops with Welfare to Work companies like fraud ridden A4e any time the DWP sees fit.

 

This will destroy people’s ability to take on small amounts of work on a casual basis. Should someone be offered a few days work on a self-employed basis they will not be in a position to guarantee they can turn up. They could be sent to work in a charity shop with no pay that week instead. Far from the stated aim of making all work pay, short periods of self-employed work will be a commitment that claimants can no longer make under the new regime. The DWP will decide how you spend your time and if you fail to comply you could face sanctions for up to three years.

 

The rest here...

 

http://johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/2012/06/23/universal-credit-self-employment-and-the-minimum-wage/

[rainbo]

This sounds like It is going to be almost impossible to work as self employed under UC. I'm simply staggered at how complicated they're going to make things..

 

The rest here...

 

http://johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/2012/06/23/universal-credit-self-employment-and-the-minimum-wage/

 

Yep. I'm going to be screwed.

[sadone]

You and me both. I was hoping to try and return to limited amounts of work and this will just destroy that.

 

My meager income would be spread all over the place. and so a regimented system of expecting something weekly just won't work for me.

[Nystagmite]

I wonder now how many will have to give up self employment and go on out of work benefits. Where do people on JSA and having to leave self employment due to lack of money coming in?

[Slatted]

Is it me or is it getting very difficult to do anything that won't p off the Govt, reduce income, result in some type of punishment etc?....What type of Country do they think we live in where we can all work for exactly the amount of money, for exactly the right amount of time, not doing or buying or selling too much or too little of whatever they have decided and, of course, never getting ill.......

 

Freedom....I think maybe prisoners will have more of that than a lot of us!!!