Penalty Fare Notice with Southern Railway

[zubair04]

Hi just needed some advice with a penalty fare i recieved.

 

I bought two tickets (one for me, one for my brother) when travelling from East Croydon Rail Station to London bridge. I used my 16-25 railcard to get my discount. however i didnt realise that the self service machine applied the discount to both tickets.

 

when reaching London Bridge i was stopped, and the inspector suggested i appeal the fare because i was not at fault and the self service machine should have been clearer when buying multiple tickets. He also mentioned that since i was from Newcastle, and not familiar with the area and protocols, that it would most likely be okay. (received penalty fare 7th May)

 

I appealed online 3 days later , entering the penalty fare notice number, time/date and location online and uploading my 16-25 railcard. I received a letter a week later from the appeals assesor, who asked for a copy of my fine. I sent this back with a copy.

 

I received a debt collection letter before any decision on my appeal was made ! I ignored this but then decided to write a reply explaining my appeal was still pending but by the time i got around to it, i received another letter which i explain below.

 

I received a letter today claiming that my appeal has been rejected because it was not submitted within 21 days. The reason was because i apparently sent the appeal back to the wrong address when i provided a copy of my fine(there's so many addresses thrown at you that im not sure whether i did or not) and therefore missed the deadline.

 

Surely i did not miss the appeal deadline because i initially appealed online ?

 

Any advice on this? How far will Southern Railway take this for a £20 fine?

 

They want me to pay the fine ASAP before incurring admin charges of another £20. Should i send a letter as soon as i can explaining this or is that a waste of time ?

 

 

Thanks,

 

Zubair

[Old-CodJA]

The Penalty Fare Notice has the address to which you have to appeal printed on it and that does also state it must be paid, or a written appeal sent to that address within 21 days. It is likely that your appeal would have been rejected in any case. The Railcard rules and self-service instructions are the same nationwide.

 

If you sent a further letter somewhere else that will not have been received by the appeals office.

 

For what it's worth, I suggest your best option is to pay-up before this escalates further.

[zubair04]

Right no problem, probably just happy that they will finally stop hassling me, thanks Old-CodJA

[Stigy]

Just to mirror what OC has said, but also bear in mind that they would eventually cancel the notice and issue a summons to the Magistrates' Court where the initial Byelaw offence would be charged, and not the unpaid £20 PF.

[firstclassx]

I hate to point this out, but if you select a railcard when purchasing a ticket from an S&B TVM, it definitely does not allow more than 1 passenger for the transaction.

 

For 2 x railcard discounted tickets, 2 x seperate transactions would have had to of occurred.

 

This is an ATOC Retail standard, so it should apply to other makes and models of machines other than those from S&B.

 

The S&B machines have a screen like this:

 

 

I would seriously think about whether you have genuine grounds for appeal, because any prosecutions department will be able to tell whether you are lying or not. They are within their rights to rescind the Penalty Fare and commence RoRA 5(3) or Byelaw 18 proceedings.

 

That said, regardless of how the "mistake" occurred, the Penalty Fare is perfectly valid and should be paid. A Byelaw 18 offence would be easy to prove, so I would just pay it and learn that it is your responsibility to check the tickets you wish to use are valid BEFORE boarding a train or entering a Compulsory Ticket Area. Based on the above info about purchasing railcard discounted tickets, I would suggest that "intent" could be proved.

[Old-CodJA]

I hate to point this out, but if you select a railcard when purchasing a ticket from an S&B TVM, it definitely does not allow more than 1 passenger for the transaction.

 

For 2 x railcard discounted tickets, 2 x seperate transactions would have had to of occurred.

 

This is an ATOC Retail standard, so it should apply to other makes and models of machines other than those from S&B.

 

The S&B machines have a screen like this:

 

 

I would seriously think about whether you have genuine grounds for appeal, because any prosecutions department will be able to tell whether you are lying or not. They are within their rights to rescind the Penalty Fare and commence RoRA 5(3) or Byelaw 18 proceedings.

 

That said, regardless of how the "mistake" occurred, the Penalty Fare is perfectly valid and should be paid. A Byelaw 18 offence would be easy to prove, so I would just pay it and learn that it is your responsibility to check the tickets you wish to use are valid BEFORE boarding a train or entering a Compulsory Ticket Area. Based on the above info about purchasing railcard discounted tickets, I would suggest that "intent" could be proved.

 

 

Exactly so, and why I think paying the PF is the most sensible option. The most likely outcome if this remains unpaid seems that the TOC will cancel the PF notice and issue a Summons alleging a breach of Section 5 of The Regulation of Railways Act (1889)