Parking Charge Notice from VCS Ltd

[Rich103]

Hi All

 

I have recently received a Parking Charge Notice from Vehicle Control Services Ltd for parking on the approach roads to Doncaster Airport. It's their usual £80 charge going up to £120 if I don't play ball. I have ready many posts on here about this company and others. Most of these posts relate to parking in car parks so my situation is slightly different.

 

In brief:

 

I live adjacent to the airport and some time over the last year (I think) VCS has put up signs that basically say no parking on double yellow lines or roadways. There are a small number of areas on the airport approach road network that are not covered by double yellows and my car was parked on one of these, as their own photograph shows.

 

Living next to the airport I have travelled along these roads many times over the last year and unless you stop your car to read the signs as posted it's impossible to read the text. Hence I have never noticed the warnings given. Many other local people I have spoken to have also not noticed the signage. maybe this is because the warning signs at the entrances to the site are situated on corners so the drivers attention will be focused elsewhere?

 

I have read the advice on here about ignoring but ultimately I did write to both VCS, The Airport Director and my local MP. The MP has an office on the airport site so I've asked her if she's ever noticed the signage that is right outside her door.

 

I've pointed out that I've not noticed the signage as it's impossible to read, without stopping, which ironically is the very thing that they are trying to prevent. I've also pointed out that a claim for trespass will have to show that I damaged the property (which I didn't) and that I don't believe that I was ever in a contract with anyone in the first place hence no charges are applicable. I've also said that their charges are not a fair estimation of their loss as they have suffered no financial loss and are therefore penalty charges which are unenforceable.

 

Whilst considering my reply I came across the case in Stockport where the motorist won his case due to the car park signage and also now it seems from the Ibbotson case in S****horpe that VCS have no authority to prosecute in the first place.

 

At the moment I have heard nothing back from either VCS, the airport or my MP so I'm sitting tight waiting to see what happens.

 

I know that many of you will feel I have wasted my time writing in the first place but felt that if this does go all the way that I would be in a better position if I had at least attempted to put my side of the argument.

 

Could anyone please advise what they think is likely to happen next from VCS....... i.e. what series of letters I'm likely to get.

 

Having stated my case I plan to ignore if they continue to peruse. Fortunately I am in the position of being able to afford the cost of the County Court process if the worst comes to the worst and I have to pay, so am looking forward to possibly a new experience in life.

 

Just as an aside my son in law ignored a parking charge notice from another company here in Doncaster. The company submitted a claim in Northampton County Court which they won because he never received any paperwork telling him about the court case. As he didn't show up in court he lost by default. Can anyone comment on both the lack of paperwork received and the fact that the court was a 2 hour drive away from where he lives and where the parking notice was issued. He ultimately paid because he became scared but could he have done anything else at this stage?

 

Many thanks for reading this far and any help would be greatfully appreciated.

 

Kind regards

 

Rich

Edited June 13, 2012 by Rich103

[rebel11]

Hi Rich

 

Welcome to CAG

 

The guys will be happy to advise as soon as they are available.

 

Please let us know how your problem has been resolved, it could help fellow Caggers.

 

Thread has been moved to the correct forum.

[Jamberson]

Just ignore and expect scary letters.

 

Tell us more about your son's case. Who brought a claim against him? What were the details?

[Rich103]

Just ignore and expect scary letters.

 

Tell us more about your son's case. Who brought a claim against him? What were the details?

 

 

My son in law and a friend both parked in a stadium car park but as there were no spaces parked on a grass verge. neither of them noticed the signs posted by Vehicle Management Direct Ltd. These state: No parking outside of parking bays at any time or a parking charge notice will be issued for £90 (at the time, now £100)

 

Both boys had seen the Watchdog TV advice to ignore and so they did. One heard nothing more after a series of letters and Gary eventually received communication from Northampton County Court saying he'd had a judgement entered against him. He states that he never received any court papers. He said there was an offer to reduce the payment from £400 ish to £200 ish for quick payment. As I'm typing this I'm wondering if this was another devious ploy to access his wallet.

 

I was perplexed why a claim would have been filed in a Northampton Court when the incident was in Doncaster. I would also assume that Courts make sure that motorists get the summonses that are issued too through recorded delivery etc.

 

Anyway at this stage he was scared into handing over £200 ish pounds.

 

I'm wondering if a PCC can issue a summons from any County Court it choses just to make it awkward to defend?

 

I'll try and see if Gary has any of the paperwork still. He's only just told us about this since I told him about my recent issue.

 

Many thanks

 

Rich

[instrumentsofjoy]

My son in law and a friend both parked in a stadium car park but as there were no spaces parked on a grass verge. neither of them noticed the signs posted by Vehicle Management Direct Ltd. These state: No parking outside of parking bays at any time or a parking charge notice will be issued for £90 (at the time, now £100)

 

Both boys had seen the Watchdog TV advice to ignore and so they did. One heard nothing more after a series of letters and Gary eventually received communication from Northampton County Court saying he'd had a judgement entered against him. He states that he never received any court papers. He said there was an offer to reduce the payment from £400 ish to £200 ish for quick payment. As I'm typing this I'm wondering if this was another devious ploy to access his wallet.

 

I was perplexed why a claim would have been filed in a Northampton Court when the incident was in Doncaster. I would also assume that Courts make sure that motorists get the summonses that are issued too through recorded delivery etc.

 

Anyway at this stage he was scared into handing over £200 ish pounds.

 

I'm wondering if a PCC can issue a summons from any County Court it choses just to make it awkward to defend?

 

I'll try and see if Gary has any of the paperwork still. He's only just told us about this since I told him about my recent issue.

 

Many thanks

 

Rich

 

Just on the issue of "Why Northampton" - this is because Northampton is a centre for issuing claims online. All claims made online are done from there. Had you decided to defend it, then it would have been sent to your local court (Doncaster) and they would probably have not turned up - or dropped the claim.

[Jamberson]

It is just a tactic, and sorry to hear that it worked. Making a claim means nothing in itself. They didn't force payment - they scared him and he volunteered it.

 

The big red flag is - they claim £400 but will accept £200 - why would they do that if they had a case?

[instrumentsofjoy]

Hi All

 

 

In brief:

 

I live adjacent to the airport and some time over the last year (I think) VCS has put up signs that basically say no parking on double yellow lines or roadways. There are a small number of areas on the airport approach road network that are not covered by double yellows and my car was parked on one of these, as their own photograph shows.

 

Living next to the airport I have travelled along these roads many times over the last year and unless you stop your car to read the signs as posted it's impossible to read the text. Hence I have never noticed the warnings given. Many other local people I have spoken to have also not noticed the signage. maybe this is because the warning signs at the entrances to the site are situated on corners so the drivers attention will be focused elsewhere?

 

I have read the advice on here about ignoring but ultimately I did write to both VCS, The Airport Director and my local MP. The MP has an office on the airport site so I've asked her if she's ever noticed the signage that is right outside her door.

 

I've pointed out that I've not noticed the signage as it's impossible to read, without stopping, which ironically is the very thing that they are trying to prevent. I've also pointed out that a claim for trespass will have to show that I damaged the property (which I didn't) and that I don't believe that I was ever in a contract with anyone in the first place hence no charges are applicable. I've also said that their charges are not a fair estimation of their loss as they have suffered no financial loss and are therefore penalty charges which are unenforceable.

Rich

 

 

Are these public roads? think I would check with the local council what status the yellow lines actually have.

 

If painted by VCS on private roads - surely they are just graffiti?

[SURFBOY]

As your son in law did not receive court papers he can apply to have the judgment set aside.

[Rich103]

Are these public roads? think I would check with the local council what status the yellow lines actually have.

 

If painted by VCS on private roads - surely they are just graffiti?

 

I have had a very nice letter from the director of the airport today which confirms that the roads are privately owned but not by the airport. He provided the name of the landowner should I wish to contact them.... Which I don't as there would seem to be no point. Unlike my son in law should I receive paperwork from Northampton I will be willing to submit a defence and attend Doncaster County Court.

 

I've also had a note from my MP's office saying she has received my letter and is dealing with it. I'll be most interested in what she has to say.

 

Thanks for your interest and advice.

 

Rich

Edited June 13, 2012 by Rich103

[Tony P]

MPs do not understand the legality (or rather non-legality) of all this, despite much publicity including TV Watchdog etc.

 

Your time might be better spent getting your Son to apply to get the Court decision set aside - if it still within the time limits allowed from when he first became aware of it.

[instrumentsofjoy]

I have had a very nice letter from the director of the airport today which confirms that the roads are privately owned but not by the airport. He provided the name of the landowner should I wish to contact them.... Which I don't as there would seem to be no point. Unlike my son in law should I receive paperwork from Northampton I will be willing to submit a defence and attend Doncaster County Court.

[.........]

 

Thanks for your interest and advice.

 

Rich

 

If the roads are privately owned then the double yellows are simply graffiti and have no legal standing. Neither do any "fines" (in reality speculative invoices) from VCS.

 

Since their kicking in Sc unthorpe and more importantly the decision in the Upper Tax Tribunal at the beginning of May - VCS will not do court. And if they did they would get another kicking.

[Rich103]

MPs do not understand the legality (or rather non-legality) of all this, despite much publicity including TV Watchdog etc.

 

Your time might be better spent getting your Son to apply to get the Court decision set aside - if it still within the time limits allowed from when he first became aware of it.

 

Thank you for your reply. However I think what happened was akin to another thread on here running at the moment. The paperwork he received seems to have been the same as in the thread where draft copies of intended court action have been sent out from Northampton County Court. I don't believe he ever received a true County Court form with a seal and case number on it.

 

In the circumstances he took the offer to reduce the outstanding amount from £400 to £200 because the form scared him.

 

I presume in the circumstances that nothing can be done to recover the money he paid.

 

Is that correct?

 

Kind regards

 

Rich

[crem]

In the circumstances he took the offer to reduce the outstanding amount from £400 to £200 because the form scared him.

 

:jaw:

 

I presume in the circumstances that nothing can be done to recover the money he paid.

 

Is that correct?

 

Rich

 

You presume correct, his money is well gone :-(

[esmerobbo]

:jaw:

 

 

 

You presume correct, his money is well gone :-(

 

I wonder if it was one of these?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?354256-Excel-plagiarizing-an-official-Northampton-Court-document-using-DRAFT-in-background

[alex_abc123]

Hi Rich,

I wonder have you had any news?

 

I've received a 'Parking charge notice' as well recently - my wife was scared (and talking how many shoes she can buy for £80 ). But I decided to google a bit and found all that useful info.

 

So my situation is exactly the same, stayed for about 5 min in the closed round about exit and someone now wants £80.

 

So, yes, any continuation to your story?

 

Thanks

A.

[Homer67]

Yes, ignore the begging letters and spend the £80 on yourself, the missus has got enough shoes!

[geoff1248]

Just out of interest I wonder who painted the yellow lines on the road. If the road is private then the painting of double yellow lines is a breach of copyright as all road signs are copyright of the Dept. of Transport. Maybe VCS should be made aware of this...

[Rich103]

Hi Rich,

I wonder have you had any news?

 

I've received a 'Parking charge notice' as well recently - my wife was scared (and talking how many shoes she can buy for £80 ). But I decided to google a bit and found all that useful info.

 

So my situation is exactly the same, stayed for about 5 min in the closed round about exit and someone now wants £80.

 

 

 

 

So, yes, any continuation to your story?

 

Thanks

A.

 

Hi Alex

 

Had a letter saying the are getting together the stuff I asked them to provide and they aim to get back to me in 14 days. I'd asked them for a copy of the contract they allege had been entered into by the driver. A full breakdown of the damage they allege the vehicle caused and a breakdown of the losses they or the airport had suffered. Also their data protection procedures and made a request under section 7 for a copy of everything they have on me as the registered keeper.

 

Will sit tight and wait for my "challenge to be rejected"

 

Think after that I'll just sit tight and see what happens.

 

Interestingly I've heard airport security think its the DVLA looking for road tax dodgers using APNR cameras. The land around the airport doesn't belong to the airport so the whole fiasco has nothing to do with them.

 

My complaint to DVLA is still going through their system and not written to Information Commissioner yet but will when I get chance. Just regarded it all as a new hobby

 

Hope this helps.

 

Rich

[Rich103]

Just out of interest I wonder who painted the yellow lines on the road. If the road is private then the painting of double yellow lines is a breach of copyright as all road signs are copyright of the Dept. of Transport. Maybe VCS should be made aware of this...

 

Hi Geoff

 

If you are correct what are the penalties should someone breach copyright?

 

Anyone else able to comment on this at all?

 

Kind regards

 

Rich

[geoff1248]

No idea what it could cost them for breach of copyright but no doubt a damn site more than they want off you. Why not give the Dept. of Transport a ring to confirm that they are copyright then if possible take a photo of the offending yellow lines.

You then have a "threat" (I wouldn't dare say blackmail) to aim at VCS if necessary.

[Rich103]

No idea what it could cost them for breach of copyright but no doubt a damn site more than they want off you. Why not give the Dept. of Transport a ring to confirm that they are copyright then if possible take a photo of the offending yellow lines.

You then have a "threat" (I wouldn't dare say blackmail) to aim at VCS if necessary.

 

Geoff

 

You're read my mind. E mail sent to Department of Transport and I already have pictures. I should hear back in 20 days!

[Old Snowy]

In the past VCS have stuck fairly rigidly to the breach of contract route to pursue their invoices - despite the somewhat equivocal evidence they gave at their first appearance before the tax tribunal last year (VCS v HMRC [2011 UKFTT TC 125 as opposed to the rather more important judgment this year - VCS v HMRC [2012] UKUT 131 - opens as a PDF) as to whether their cause of action was founded in breaches of contract or trespass. I am therefore intrigued by the suggestion that VCS's actions may be founded in trespass as the OP refers to. This would be something of a first and I therefore wonder whether this is as a response to the tribunal cases.

 

Does the OP have a note of the wording of the signs - or better still a photo?

Edited July 3, 2012 by Old Snowy
Tidying link URL

[esmerobbo]

Geoff

 

You're read my mind. E mail sent to Department of Transport and I already have pictures. I should hear back in 20 days!

 

 

Looks like you can use DYL's without permission, or breaching copyright. Then I would have thought it would be difficult to copyright the painting of two yellow lines?

 

 

The artwork of traffic signs is covered by a waiver and may

therefore be reproduced free of charge, without the need to obtain

permission, subject to it being reproduced accurately and not used

in a misleading context.

 

From : http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@motor/documents/digitalasset/dg_191955.pdf

[Old Snowy]

Would this not be a misleading context? There is no Traffic Regulation Order and the parking is covered entirely by contract law (or so it would seem) would the use of DYL's not encourage people to conclude that parking had been legally restricted?

[esmerobbo]

Would this not be a misleading context? There is no Traffic Regulation Order and the parking is covered entirely by contract law (or so it would seem) would the use of DYL's not encourage people to conclude that parking had been legally restricted?

 

I think it could well be as we see on many private car parks and indeed most hospitals. We all know what they mean but in fact mean nothing! Hence why we have seen PPC invoices given to blue badge holders parking on DYL's when if they were official they could park there.