About to miss my first CC payment and what happens next

[Old Cogger]

Well, still haven't made any progress with this lot. Latest letter from them makes it clear that we are at an impasse.

Despite doing everything I can including recovering £150 from an unprocessed refund, their financial guidance team cannot agree a reformal repayment solution without speaking to me.

I quote "Whilst I appreciate your preference to be contacted by email, I confirm that we are unable to set up a repayment plan if you are unwilling to discuss your current circumstances by telephone."

 

What more can I do?, I informed them of my difficulties before I missed my first payment, recovered funds they didn't even know about and have provided full income and expediture details.

 

The next paragraph is another quote and to me confirms that I am wasting my time..

 

"Please note that as implied in our previous correspondence, our decision remains unaltered and in the absence of any new information, we will not be in a position to correspond with you further regarding this matter".

 

Seems like I have to wait until the debt is sold on and on and on, and deal with them as they occur.

 

They use this tactic to try and get you to ring an get hold of them then lie later about the contents of the call? just write that as their is no impass with them as they refuse communicate with you in writing or e.mail then the situation is at a standstill until they decide to communicate as per Guidelines which state that if requested all correspondence in writing or by e.mail, if they have a situation with this then could they contact the FSA and request guidance on the issue as they do not want to adhere to guidelines.

 

there you are the situation to expand on.

 

if they pass it on for collection it is usually to a DCA to collect on their behalf, so at this moment in time Send a letter that the account is in dispute until such time as they correspond with you in writing, a DCA would have to then respond and return an account to them. If they give a final response to you, then you can complain to FOS not that they are any good but a paper trail is laid for any action later.

So you have a couple ways to think about handling this.

 

I have been there as well and still am there, they write to you saying you have not corresponded to their last letter yet you have Recorded Delivery receipt by another department you wrote to, different departments do not read others mail on computer it would seem.

 

If you think they will respond well wait and see, they will no doubt give 180 days to sort out before passing to the next Metro step.

Edited September 22, 2012 by Old Cogger

[citizenB]

It is your absolute legal right to communicate in writing. What are they going to do if someone is hard of hearing ?

 

Your letter to communicate in writing should contain something along the lines of..

 

Please place on record that it has been our family policy for some time now to only communicate in writing when dealing with our financial affairs from our home, as it is our right to do so under Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights.

The reason for this is that it minimises misinterpretation of what has been said and places on record everything that has.

It also protects me should there be any attempt at litigation in the future.

 

Furthermore, both the OFT and BCOBs ensure that my legal right to communicate in writing is protected.

 

You could further say..

 

I see absolutely no other reason for you to insist on telephone communication other than to humiliate and intimidate. There is nothing that could be said on the telephone that could not be put in writing and as already explained above, it is obviously in my interests to keep a complete and accurate record of what has been said.

 

If they have suggested that you have not responded to their communications when indeed you have and have proof of this by way of signature on recorded / special delivery post. Then that is something else you could mention.. Say.

 

Further proof of my decision to write is when you claim that I have not responded to communication from you. I always send my letters via tracked mail. So when I see that I have a signature for receipt by BANK for letters I have sent - it is obvious that your one intention is to use your weapon of choice. The telephone !!

 

HTH

[Wooks001]

Thanks for your replies, I'm trying to read about up about bcobs before drafting a reply but it's not easy at the moment as a migraine is starting and I can't see too well.

Taken some meds and if it goes away I'll draft something today if not then tomorrow.

Not at all convinced that reminding them of the rules will work but will give it a ago. Have quoted the oft guidlines in the past but they simply ignore that part of the letter.

[Wooks001]

Ok this is the draft of the letter I'm sending to the FOS, can anyone suggest anything to add please before I send it off.

 

Further to our telephone conversation in June I have been unable to resolve the situation with HSBC.

I first contacted HSBC at the end of May 2012 and before I missed my first credit card payment, to advise them that I was in financial difficulties and could no longer meet my monthly payments.

 

I also provided them with a court oriented income and expenditure document, and advised them that I only wished to discuss the situation in writing or by email.

Despite making my preferences/rights clear I have received numerous letters and emails requiring me to call them. This started with their final response letter to my complaint.

 

The latest letter (copy attached) makes it clear that they will only discuss my situation if I contact their Financial Guidance Team by telephone. In the meantime they are continually adding fees and interest to the account forcing me further into debt.

 

Their demands for me to contact them by telephone, and other requirements for me to provide personal information are clear violations of Article 8 of the Human Rights Convention, OFT Guidelines 2009 and the Banking Code of Conduct.

The OFT have accepted my complaint, and confirmed that HSBC are in contravention of their guidelines, but cannot act in individual cases.

 

I can see no other reason for them to insist on telephone communication other than to humiliate and intimidate. There is nothing that could be said on the telephone that could not be put in writing, and it is obviously in my interests to keep a complete and accurate written record in the event of litigation.

 

I have no idea what more I can do in this situation and am hoping that you will be able to convince HSBC to respond as they should and not according to rules they make up themselves.

[skintandfat]

Don't let them grind you down

 

As you have limited income then explain to them via email that you can't afford to waste money on stamps but if they insist on writing rather than email then you will write an unstamped letter.

 

Point out that you are in hardship and that you can't afford to waste money on stamps- thus the use of email as they don't incur any additional charges.

 

You really need to seek advice from CCCS , CAB or PAYPLAN. If you have them helping you they back down pretty quickly and start being nice.

 

A debt management plan, IVA may be an option- you may have too little income for this to work.

If you rent your house then a bankruptcy may be an option - this will write off ALL energy and ALL card debt

 

You need to take advice from one of the debt charities before doing a BR

Edited September 23, 2012 by skintandfat

[citizenB]

Ok this is the draft of the letter I'm sending to the FOS, can anyone suggest anything to add please before I send it off.

 

Further to our telephone conversation in June I have been unable to resolve the situation with HSBC.

I first contacted HSBC at the end of May 2012 and before I missed my first credit card payment, to advise them that I was in financial difficulties and could no longer meet my monthly payments.

 

I also provided them with a court oriented income and expenditure document, and advised them that I only wished to discuss the situation in writing or by email.

Despite making my preferences/rights clear I have received numerous letters and emails requiring me to call them. This started with their final response letter to my complaint.

 

The latest letter (copy attached) makes it clear that they will only discuss my situation if I contact their Financial Guidance Team by telephone. In the meantime they are continually adding fees and interest to the account forcing me further into debt.

 

Their demands for me to contact them by telephone, and other requirements for me to provide personal information are clear violations of Article 8 of the Human Rights Convention, OFT Guidelines 2009 and the Banking Code of Conduct.

The OFT have accepted my complaint, and confirmed that HSBC are in contravention of their guidelines, but cannot act in individual cases.

 

I can see no other reason for them to insist on telephone communication other than to humiliate and intimidate. There is nothing that could be said on the telephone that could not be put in writing, and it is obviously in my interests to keep a complete and accurate written record in the event of litigation.

 

I have no idea what more I can do in this situation and am hoping that you will be able to convince HSBC to respond as they should and not according to rules they make up themselves.

 

Excellent

[Wooks001]

Thanks for your help folks in drafting my letter to the FOS.

I've emailed it to the guy who I dealt with in June to start the ball rolling, and will call him tomorrow to confirm receipt and check he hasn't moved on etc.

No idea what if any response to expect or when, but will update this thread when I've news.

[Wooks001]

Rang the FOS this morning, they have logged my email and asked me to return a signed form to them giving permission for them to act on my behalf. Case is now with the ajudicator, so I guess it depends how busy they are.

Had a CC statement this morning, more charges and interest, also mentions a default sum whatever that is.

[Old Cogger]

HSBC are a sick joke, you ring them to request a department (somewhere over the Rainbow - they have so many in so many places), they put you on hold for ages then some chap listens to you but says very little then says cannot get through that is after 45 minutes.. So send a letter of complaint to their C.E.O at canada square it may just get to the right department, send Recorded delivery.

 

 

Oh yes the Financial Guidance Team, managed to get thru once , so wrote as requested and low and behold another department (Salford ) write you have not contacted us so there. Ridiculous outfit, they ignore Regulation/Legislation as they are too big to be brought down they think?? seems to be a reason as the FSA are of no use unless their jobs at risk.

 

Anyway just to let you know, also if it goes to Metropoliton their in house department write only to them recorded delivery, as they quickly pass to the non solicitors D,G. if you have problem they do not want to know, they try covering their assets via Northampton so be aware for the future.

[Wooks001]

Rang National Debtline this afternoon and they are sending out forms for a DRO.

They reckon its the best thing to do with HSBC's attitude, part from knackering my credit record for 6 years it seems like a possible option.

Any opinions on DRO's please.

[citizenB]

Rang National Debtline this afternoon and they are sending out forms for a DRO.

They reckon its the best thing to do with HSBC's attitude, part from knackering my credit record for 6 years it seems like a possible option.

Any opinions on DRO's please.

 

 

If you have under £15,000 worth of debt and no assets, then this sounds like a pretty good idea - you are discharged from the DRO after one year.

[Wooks001]

Default notice arrived this morning, 3 weeks to pay £xxx I don't have or it goes on my credit file.

Doubt if they will remove it once its there, and not much chance of negotiating a fair repayment before then with their attitude.

[Wooks001]

Hi cb,

 

Got to be a downside though, waiting for the paperwork to see what it is.

Already know of one potential problem, arrears for utilities will be wiped out too. Spent ages negotiating a while ago to pay them at a £10 a month which I'm happy with. Wondering what they will do if they are wiped out.

Contacted ofgem yesterday to see if there are any rules/guidelines on the issue.

[citizenB]

If you receive any more rubbish from HSBC or their inhouse agents.. simply advise that the account is now firmly in dispute and that you have made a complaint to the Financial Ombudsman. Reference any letters/emails you send to HSBC & Crew, with the FOS reference number and ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE.

 

Hope this helps

[Old Cogger]

If you receive any more rubbish from HSBC or their inhouse agents.. simply advise that the account is now firmly in dispute and that you have made a complaint to the Financial Ombudsman. Reference any letters/emails you send to HSBC & Crew, with the FOS reference number and ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE.

 

Hope this helps

Forward as CB says to FOS and could notify HSBC that the letters etc in question has been submitted the the Regulator, any further latters etc will be forwarded to same.

[Wooks001]

Done, asked them if HSBC are allowed to do this as they are well aware that the account is in dispute and a complaint raised with the Ombudsman.

[Wooks001]

Had a letter from the FOS yesterday, they have asked HSBC to send them the information they have on my complaint so they can investigate further. Presumably this means copies of letters, emails etc.

This info will then be passed to the adjudicators who will then contact me. Process could take upto 12 weeks.

 

Spent yesterday scanning all letters from HSBC and compiling these into a document along with emails, messages I've sent and received in chronological order..

So far it's 30 pages long and starts with my first email & message to HSBC informing them I'm in the smelly stuff and need help, ends with their last letter stating they will only discuss problems over the phone.

Will be interesting to see if HSBC hand over everything to the FOS, if not then I certainly will which is why I've prepared the document.

Made me bloody angry reading over everything again, but at least it's easy now to scan and add any new letters to the log.

Also sent a few bits to the OFT who have added the info to their file on HSBC.

 

Plan to do a bit of googling this afternoon to see if I can get trading standards, FSA involved too.

More the merrier as far as I'm concerned as it's more pressure on HSBC to change their stupid attitude.

[Old Cogger]

FSA a waste of time but would file your letters with others, may look at them if they get millions of complaints sort of.

HSBC will not change their methods it seems as it is happening to all of us and the Regulators are well U.S.

[citizenB]

Had a letter from the FOS yesterday, they have asked HSBC to send them the information they have on my complaint so they can investigate further. Presumably this means copies of letters, emails etc.

This info will then be passed to the adjudicators who will then contact me. Process could take upto 12 weeks.

 

Spent yesterday scanning all letters from HSBC and compiling these into a document along with emails, messages I've sent and received in chronological order..

So far it's 30 pages long and starts with my first email & message to HSBC informing them I'm in the smelly stuff and need help, ends with their last letter stating they will only discuss problems over the phone.

Will be interesting to see if HSBC hand over everything to the FOS, if not then I certainly will which is why I've prepared the document.

Made me bloody angry reading over everything again, but at least it's easy now to scan and add any new letters to the log.

Also sent a few bits to the OFT who have added the info to their file on HSBC.

 

Plan to do a bit of googling this afternoon to see if I can get trading standards, FSA involved too.

More the merrier as far as I'm concerned as it's more pressure on HSBC to change their stupid attitude.

 

You should certainly impress upon the FOS the amount of time you have had invested in this matter in order to bring your financial situation to the company in a timely manner,

as per the OFT guidance. Then the continuing nightmare with some of the obstructive and otiose letters from HSBC.

[Wooks001]

Yeah CB been looking at the compensation side of things today although it's not top of my list, just part of my research into what the FOS can actually do..

FOS allow £50-100 per day or £10/hour for consumers claims, and if they find in my favour could be a tidy sum in a compensation award too. If they find that they have breached guidelines or behaved unreasonably, awards seem to start at £500-750 but there's no guarantee.

A simple sorry for you inconvenience type letter from HSBC is not going to be sufficient that's for sure, I want something in writing to the effect that they will change their procedures, and follow OFT guidelines etc in the future for starters. Ideally they might drop themselves in it legally, they have certainly behaved stupidly/arrogantly enough so far. Doubt it though, I'm expecting the complaint will get escallated in line with the FOS involvement.

[Wooks001]

GOT THEM:lol:

 

Browsing around the FOS website came across this document.

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/ombudsman-news/39/financial-difficulty-debits-39.htm

 

The relevant part is quoted below and I have told the bank about this in my emails:-

 

The banking code identifies a lender’s duties, when dealing with customers in financial difficulties. The over-riding principle (set out in section 13.10 of the code) is that the lender will consider cases sympathetically and positively.

Where it appears that there is a problem (for instance, when payments are missed on a loan or credit card), the lender’s first step will be to contact the customer. Clearly, if customers know in advance that they are unlikely to be able to make a particular payment, it will help if they tell their lender. But some customers simply wait for their lender to notice missed payments – or perhaps hope that it will not do so.

The lender should always give the customer details of free and reputable advice agencies that could help. And if the customer decides to deal with the problem though an advice agency rather than direct with the lender, the lender should respect that decision and not press the customer direct. The lender should also accept that some customers prefer to communicate in writing rather than by telephone, or vice versa. Wherever possible, and provided that the customer stays in regular contact, the lender should use the customer’s preferred means of communication.

Did the first prior to missing the first payment.

They are point blank refusing the second, i.e. to communicate in writing.

 

More digging to do, but it's HSBC's hole not mine. I had the sense to stop digging!!.

[citizenB]

Nice find Wooks

[Wooks001]

Hi Folks,

 

Finally heard from the Ombudsman and it looks like I need some more ammunition if any is available.

Basically it appears they look at the Lending Code not OFT Guidelines, when it comes to making decisions. It is ok therefore for HSBC to add charges and interest right up until they issue the default notice.

HSBC are in error by refusing to negotiate reduced payments in writing rather than insisting it must be done over the telephone, but its Ok for them to refuse to negotiate by email because they claim their system isn't secure.

As things stand it looks like I will be awarded a nominal sum but nothing like the additional charges and interest added to the account, so HSBC get away with it.

 

Can anyone think of any other arguments I can use before the adjudicator makes their decision. I had expected that HSBC would get a right good spanking, but it's looking more like a peck on the cheek at the moment.

 

Cheers

 

Wooks

[citizenB]

It was my understanding that they took all relevant regulatory advice into consideration !

[Old Cogger]

Hi Folks,

 

Finally heard from the Ombudsman and it looks like I need some more ammunition if any is available.

Basically it appears they look at the Lending Code not OFT Guidelines, when it comes to making decisions. It is ok therefore for HSBC to add charges and interest right up until they issue the default notice.

HSBC are in error by refusing to negotiate reduced payments in writing rather than insisting it must be done over the telephone, but its Ok for them to refuse to negotiate by email because they claim their system isn't secure.

As things stand it looks like I will be awarded a nominal sum but nothing like the additional charges and interest added to the account, so HSBC get away with it.

 

Can anyone think of any other arguments I can use before the adjudicator makes their decision. I had expected that HSBC would get a right good spanking, but it's looking more like a peck on the cheek at the moment.

 

Cheers

 

Wooks

 

That old one, been fighting them for 4+ years under Hardship, where am I, still the same position.